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'[OT]: producing front panels'
2000\07\12@094901 by moshe

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Dear members.
I'm looking for a good way -  to produce a front panels  to my homemade
devices.
I have a laser printer.
Does anyone have experience with that problem.
Thank you .
Moses
Email:spam_OUTmosheTakeThisOuTspamgad-univ.com

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2000\07\12@101206 by Lawrence Lile

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I use the following methods:

Print out a nice front panel on your laser printer or inkjet printer.  Cut
it to size.

Go to a drafting supply house and get some adhesive backed clear mylar.  You
can also buy this stuff for +ACI-laminating+ACI- at art supply stores.

Using a piece of stickyback mylar larger than your front panel label, stick
it onto your project.  Drill holes where needed.

It's mostly waterproof, smudge resistant, dirt resistant, and cheap+ACE-

-- Lawrence

{Original Message removed}

2000\07\12@103038 by Robert A. LaBudde

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At 09:11 AM 7/12/00 -0500, Lawrence wrote:
>I use the following methods:
>
>Print out a nice front panel on your laser printer or inkjet printer.  Cut
>it to size.
>
>Go to a drafting supply house and get some adhesive backed clear mylar.  You
>can also buy this stuff for +ACI-laminating+ACI- at art supply stores.
>
>Using a piece of stickyback mylar larger than your front panel label, stick
>it onto your project.  Drill holes where needed.
>
>It's mostly waterproof, smudge resistant, dirt resistant, and cheap+ACE-

Two other possibilities:

1. Print the outline directly on the mylar!

2. Print on Press-N-Peel, and iron the toner onto the front panel, similar
to making a PCB. (This method also works for "silkscreening" a PCB after
etching.)

================================================================
Robert A. LaBudde, PhD, PAS, Dpl. ACAFS  e-mail: ralspamKILLspamlcfltd.com
Least Cost Formulations, Ltd.            URL: http://lcfltd.com/
824 Timberlake Drive                     Tel: 757-467-0954
Virginia Beach, VA 23464-3239            Fax: 757-467-2947

"Vere scire est per causas scire"
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2000\07\12@103244 by John Walker

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My favorite way is to print the front panel display onto a clear slide,
print it in reverse or mirrored this will keep the toner from wiping off
over time . Then use spray adhesive, I like to use the 3M brand, spray the
front panel with the adhesive and then CAREFULLY lay the slide on top.
Smooth it out and trim it up. Use a knife to cut out the holes and
openings. I have access to a color laser printer which allows for some real
nice looking panels. Good luck.


At 04:27 PM 7/12/00 +0200, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\07\12@105551 by Bill Colville

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Date sent:              Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:31:16 -0400
Send reply to:          pic microcontroller discussion list <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From:                   John Walker <RemoveMEjjwTakeThisOuTspamSEI.CMU.EDU>
Subject:                Re: [OT]: producing front panels
To:                     spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

> My favorite way is to print the front panel display onto a clear slide,
> print it in reverse or mirrored this will keep the toner from wiping off
> over time . Then use spray adhesive, I like to use the 3M brand, spray the
> front panel with the adhesive and then CAREFULLY lay the slide on top.
> Smooth it out and trim it up. Use a knife to cut out the holes and
> openings. I have access to a color laser printer which allows for some real
> nice looking panels. Good luck.

I also use this method, although I first print a non-mirrored version
on plain paper and use that as a drilling template. Then you are
sure the mirrored version on the transparency film will be in perfect
alignment. Works great.

Bill

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2000\07\12@111623 by Greg Peyton

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Moses,
One alternative, and I'm a bit ashamed to admit that we do this at work for small test fixtures...It's one of those "that's the way we've always done it" things that I inherited.
I'm sure some of the more experienced guys will read the following with a look of horror on their faces. I look that way myself, every time I have to make a label. It does work though and lasts a long time.

Print out your label on paper, using the laser printer. Include a border around  it. If possible, use a drawing program like autocad (or similar). Precision is a beautiful thing when making labels.

Create a sandwich composed of the following, each piece about .25" to .5" larger than the label outline: 1) plastic sheeting 2) 3M brand 468MP adhesive (we get it on a large roll)
3) label 4) 3M brand 468MP adhesive

I put the adhesive on both sides of the label prior to laying on the plastic. If I goof up I just throw it away. It's easier than peeling the adhesive off the plastic.

I've read how other people use clear plastic when making labels using other techniques. Those techniques probably produce fine results which I won't argue with. For this method I don't like using clear plastic. I think it produces too much glare making the label hard to read. It also makes bubbles look hideous. I prefer .02" lexan plastic. It's got one smooth side, a slightly rougher side (which I have facing out) and is translucent enough to hide small bubbles.

Using a metal straightedge and a xacto knife, cut off edges, at or just inside, the label border.
Be sure you drill all holes that will be covered (such as the locking pin for rotary switch indexes) prior to placing the label. Always debur before placing label.

Drill holes as large as possible as required by label. I finish by using a xacto knife for precision on soft aluminum cases. Be careful of bubbles under the adhesive. We roll them out as we assemble it.
Be very careful when placing the labels. It's a one shot deal as these things can't be adjusted once they bite to the case.
The only other thing I can say is to think about the order of things before you do them. Try to mentally walk through the process to prevent gotchas.

That's the gist of it. I hope this was as amusing as it was educational.

-Greg

Greg Peyton
Metrology Lead Technician
Tempo
(760)598-8900 x293
RemoveMEgpeytonspamTakeThisOuTtempocomm.com
http://www.tempocomm.com

>>> moshe<mosheEraseMEspam.....GAD-UNIV.COM> 07/12/00 07:27AM >>>
Dear members.
I'm looking for a good way -  to produce a front panels  to my homemade
devices.
I have a laser printer.
Does anyone have experience with that problem.
Thank you .
Moses
Email:EraseMEmoshespamgad-univ.com
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2000\07\12@111844 by Dan Michaels

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Moshe wrote:
>Dear members.
>I'm looking for a good way -  to produce a front panels  to my homemade
>devices.
>I have a laser printer.
>Does anyone have experience with that problem.


One thing you can do is go out and get a laminator from your
local office supply place - Office Max, etc - and laminate the
laser printer output. About $50 for the heat kind, which works
better than the non-heat kind.

Heat lamination makes a nice rugged label. Trim the edges with
an exacto knife. Unfortunately trimming does allow water/etc
to leak into the edges of the label - [haven't solved this one
yet].

BTW, you can also hand-laminate non-heat type labels, but this
is not as good as the heat type laminator. Also, non-heat laminating
does *not* work well with inkjet paper, which has a special
surface coating - the laminate wrinkles up when you glue down
the final label - depending on the glue.

best regards,
- Dan Michaels
Oricom Technologies
http://www.sni.net/~oricom
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2000\07\12@151402 by Ralph & Helene

picon face
Hi all-

This is a very timely topic for me as I need to do this right now. -
Wondering if anyone has a good way to print a circular format for a pot on a
front panel??

Also, what's the best way to print a mirror image -egami rorrim  - no that
doesn't work :-)

Thanks,

Ralph
{Original Message removed}

2000\07\12@151953 by Andrew Kunz

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>Also, what's the best way to print a mirror image -egami rorrim  - no that
>doesn't work :-)

Should be a property you can change on the printer, if you're using WIndows.
Not all printers have the property, but all the latest HP inkjet drivers do.

Andy

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2000\07\12@171850 by Lawrence Lile

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If you are using AutoCad or some other real cad package Mirroring or making
some funny shape is a cinch.  If you are using PC paint, MS word, or some
other art or text based program then good luck.
If you don't have a CAD package, there are some out there for as little as
$20 with minimal functionality.

-- lawrence Lile

{Original Message removed}

2000\07\12@172111 by Tony Nixon

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moshe wrote:
>
> Dear members.
> I'm looking for a good way -  to produce a front panels  to my homemade
> devices.
> I have a laser printer.
> Does anyone have experience with that problem.
> Thank you .
> Moses
> Email:RemoveMEmosheKILLspamspamgad-univ.com
>
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I have done them this way in the past.

Celcast ST300 adhesive backed photocopier film.
Print artwork on laser printer.
If you like, you can paint the face plate a bright colout like yellow or
lime green which gives the artwork a good contrast.
Print in negative (laser copier only) and the text becomes the bright
color on a matt black finish.
Line the artwork holes with the front panel holes and carefully stick
the film to the panel. Smooth out any air bubbles.
Fold about 1cm of the film over the edges and stick to the rear of the
panel.
Use a round needle file and pierce the film where the holes are and
lightly rub the file on the outer surface of the face plate holes to
remove the film at these points. This makes a neat hole without damaging
the film.

--
Best regards

Tony

mICro's
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2000\07\12@200156 by Bill Colville

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Date sent:              Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:05:42 -0700
Send reply to:          pic microcontroller discussion list <EraseMEPICLISTspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From:                   Ralph & Helene <@spam@2pilots@spam@spamspam_OUTMEDIAONE.NET>
Subject:                Re: [OT]: producing front panels
To:                     spamBeGonePICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

I use Paint Shop Pro for both.

Bill

{Quote hidden}

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2000\07\12@200811 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 12:05 PM 7/12/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi all-
>
>This is a very timely topic for me as I need to do this right now. -
>Wondering if anyone has a good way to print a circular format for a pot on a
>front panel??
>

See http://www.speff.com for an example of a nonlinear circular dial
created in Postscript and modified in Adobe Illustrator. You can print
from Illustrator into any old kind of printer (inkjet, laser, color laser)
it doesn't have to be a Postscript printer.

Creating dials parametrically is a time saver, but you could do the same
thing manually in Adobe Illustrator. It's the best program, IMHO, but
a bit $$$.

Best regards,
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
TakeThisOuTspeff.....spamTakeThisOuTinterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
Contributions invited->The AVR-gcc FAQ is at: http://www.bluecollarlinux.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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2000\07\13@230100 by Damon Hopkins

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Ralph & Helene wrote:
> Also, what's the best way to print a mirror image -egami rorrim  - no that
> doesn't work :-)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ralph
you could flip it horizontally in most paint type programs


               Damon Hopkins

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2000\07\13@235219 by Mark Willis

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Ralph & Helene wrote:
> Also, what's the best way to print a mirror image -egami rorrim  - no that
> doesn't work :-)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ralph

I just use a PCB Cad package and have that package flip it - they're
usually QUITE good at this sort of thing <G>

 Mark

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2000\07\13@235718 by David Huisman

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While on the topic of front panels.

Would someone please recommend a good source in Australia of the Dynalabel
(or 3M) type material that is photosensitive to enable label production
using laser printer and developer.

Regards

David Huisman

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2000\07\14@051344 by Peter L. Peres

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Ralph & Helene wrote:
>This is a very timely topic for me as I need to do this right now. -
>Wondering if anyone has a good way to print a circular format for a pot
>on a front panel??

>Also, what's the best way to print a mirror image -egami rorrim  - no
>that doesn't work :-)

Use a CAD program. Perhaps a free/evaluation one if this is a first time
project. I think that Win95 paint allows you to select and mirror a
bitmap. Potentiometer scales are best drawn using a CAD program using
sub-drawings (is this the proper name) and then doing a macro to rotate
and print the line at each required angle position. Lacking that, do it by
hand in a paint program. Draw the circle or sector then another outside it
and in the 2nd your tick marks. Then copy, paste, rotate, inscribe each
tick mark onto the empty circle. This takes a while ;-). You can also use
a programming language (even BASIC) to generate a Post Script image from
the maths. Post Script is the way to go here imho. It supports infinite
scaling and other goodies and it is very good at rotating text and
sub-pictures.

Peter

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2000\07\14@051352 by Peter L. Peres

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Dan Michaels wrote:
>Heat lamination makes a nice rugged label. Trim the edges with
>an exacto knife. Unfortunately trimming does allow water/etc
>to leak into the edges of the label - [haven't solved this one
>yet].

Solution: buy transparent children's paper glue and apply with cotton swab
around edges. I did that ;). You need to try serveral glue types because
some go yellowish within days.

Peter

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2000\07\14@092222 by Gary Tompkins

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I use silk screening to produce professional looking panels.

Its really quite a simple and fast process, easy enough even for a "one of a
kind" application.

Most local art and hobby supply will have everything you need to create the
screen and transfer the image. Total cost should be under $40~$50 US. This
will provide you with enough materials do make several screen images or many
(100's) of copies of the same image.

If anyone would like details on how to go about creating the screens, Just
Ask. There's really no Voodoo involved and you don't need any special skills
or equipment to accomplish the task.

Gary

{Original Message removed}

2000\07\14@113458 by Dan Michaels

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Peter L. Peres wrote:
>Dan Michaels wrote:
>>Heat lamination makes a nice rugged label. Trim the edges with
>>an exacto knife. Unfortunately trimming does allow water/etc
>>to leak into the edges of the label - [haven't solved this one
>>yet].
>
>Solution: buy transparent children's paper glue and apply with cotton swab
>around edges. I did that ;). You need to try serveral glue types because
>some go yellowish within days.
>

Tried cyanoacrylate, by any chance?

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2000\07\14@113507 by Dan Michaels

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Gary Tompkins wrote:
>I use silk screening to produce professional looking panels.
.......
>

Does this work well with ABS plastic? If, so what type of paint
do you use?  I once asked Pac-Tec what was a good paint to use
with ABS, but they just told me to try various kinds till I
found something that worked. [thanks a lot, P-T, ....].

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2000\07\14@120820 by Mitchell D. Miller

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> I use silk screening to produce professional looking panels.

Can this same technique be used to silk screen onto homemade PCBs and/or
apply solder paste?

-- Mitch

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2000\07\14@123307 by M. Adam Davis

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I was researching that a little earlier.  You can get *very* fine screens for
silkscreening (on the order of 800 threads per inch) which I decided was enough
to give me at least 1/100th of an inch of resolution (perfect for most PCB
projects), and larger screen printing supply places have etch resist ink meant
for PCB silkscreening.

I've heard of people using silkscreen to apply solder paste for SMT components
prior to a pick-n-place machine and oven, but I've not dealt with solder paste.
I imagine you'd need a fine paste and a coarse screen.

If you are a small business that has a few boards that you produce in large
quantities, silk screen printing may be the way to go, since you are probably
going to silkscreen the topside and solder mask anyway.

The last glitch in the whole process is plated through holes.  If the chemicals
were available, it wouldn't be too bad, but the process is still rather
involved:

Drill
Screen print a plating resist
Plate
Clean off plating resist
Screen print an etch resist
Etch
Clean off resist
Screen print a solder mask
Tin plate exposed copper
Screen print the overlay

I can see myself deciding that my time is worth more than what it would cost to
have a professional shop do it for me.

But for simple kit projects, one side, tin plated (no solder mask), and part
placement overlay, this would probably be cheaper for medium quantities than a
PCB house.

-Adam

"Mitchell D. Miller" wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\07\15@011112 by David Covick

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I've used PhotoEZ for panels.  You expose it just like a circuit board.

http://www.cbridge.com/

Works good for small needs and one should use their fine mesh screen for
best results.

David


----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Tompkins <.....garyspamRemoveMEATRBIOTECH.COM>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: [OT]: producing front panels


> I use silk screening to produce professional looking panels.
>
> Its really quite a simple and fast process, easy enough even for a "one of
a
> kind" application.
>
> Most local art and hobby supply will have everything you need to create
the
> screen and transfer the image. Total cost should be under $40~$50 US. This
> will provide you with enough materials do make several screen images or
many
> (100's) of copies of the same image.
>
> If anyone would like details on how to go about creating the screens, Just
> Ask. There's really no Voodoo involved and you don't need any special
skills
> or equipment to accomplish the task.
>
> Gary
>
> {Original Message removed}

2000\07\15@113533 by V sml

picon face
All ears here, Gary.

How easy would it be to modify or correct the print on panel after
silk screen?  For project work, it is good to have the ability to
change without incurring high cost.

Gary Tompkins wrote:


>I use silk screening to produce professional looking panels.

>Its really quite a simple and fast process, easy enough even for a
"one of a
kind" application.

>Most local art and hobby supply will have everything you need to
create the
screen and transfer the image. Total cost should be under $40~$50 US.
This
will provide you with enough materials do make several screen images
or many
(100's) of copies of the same image.

If anyone would like details on how to go about creating the screens,
Just
Ask. There's really no Voodoo involved and you don't need any special
skills
or equipment to accomplish the task.

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2000\07\16@135134 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>Tried cyanoacrylate, by any chance?

Of coarse. Bad idea. White fogging everywhere (hard to remove), cyano
heats up tremendously when soaking into slightly humid paper or
cellulose and causes the lamination to thicken at the edge. Also stinks
and you can have a front panel permanently attached to your hand in no
time at all. I tried slow and fast cyano. The fast one was Zap and results
as above. The slow one took days to dry so you had a choice to attach the
panel to your hand later, if you wanted.

Peter

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2000\07\16@212303 by Dan Michaels

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Peter Peres wrote:
>>Tried cyanoacrylate, by any chance?
>
>Of coarse. Bad idea. White fogging everywhere (hard to remove), cyano
>heats up tremendously when soaking into slightly humid paper or
>cellulose and causes the lamination to thicken at the edge.
........
>

Peter,

Good to know about the fogging - I never liked that stuff anyways.
Better living thru chemistry.

We make labels by heat laminating laser printer output inside a
clear plastic pouch [std lam stuff, not sure what it's made of],
and would be nice to find something that would seal the label
edges after trimming.

Also, got any idea what glue sticks well to ABS plastic?
Been using GOOP, after trying many others, and like it a lot.
Not all that messy, sticks well, and you can easily bead up
and rub off any excess with your finger after gooping. Also,
doesn't "melt" the label or the ABS, like some.

Also, any experience painting ABS? Know of a good paint
for this material?

Thanks,
- Dan Michaels
Oricom Technologies
http://www.sni.net/~oricom
==========================

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2000\07\17@002641 by Russell McMahon

picon face
>Also, got any idea what glue sticks well to ABS plastic?
>Been using GOOP, after trying many others, and like it a lot.
>Not all that messy, sticks well, and you can easily bead up
>and rub off any excess with your finger after gooping. Also,
>doesn't "melt" the label or the ABS, like some.


I use PVA (Poly Vinyl Acetate) wood-working grade (ie the "strongest" that I
can find) to stick labels to ABS with good results.
Be aware that  PVA comes in a range of grades and dilutions.
YMMV



               Russell McMahon

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2000\07\17@112715 by Dan Michaels

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Russell McMahon wrote:
.....
>>doesn't "melt" the label or the ABS, like some.
>
>
>I use PVA (Poly Vinyl Acetate) wood-working grade (ie the "strongest" that I
>can find) to stick labels to ABS with good results.
>Be aware that  PVA comes in a range of grades and dilutions.
>YMMV
>

Does not this stuff "melt" plastic?

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2000\07\17@113750 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Michaels [SMTP:oricomEraseMEspamLYNX.SNI.NET]
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 4:27 PM
> To:   RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      Re: [OT]: producing front panels
>
> Russell McMahon wrote:
> .....
> >>doesn't "melt" the label or the ABS, like some.
> >
> >
> >I use PVA (Poly Vinyl Acetate) wood-working grade (ie the "strongest"
> that I
> >can find) to stick labels to ABS with good results.
> >Be aware that  PVA comes in a range of grades and dilutions.
> >YMMV
> >
>
> Does not this stuff "melt" plastic?
>
PVA is a water based adhesive.  It does not melt any plastics that I know
of.

Cheers

Mike

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2000\07\17@162606 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
Special paint for ABS exists, also special glue. Everything related to ABS
glue and paint is industrial use only because it needs solvents to locally
dissolve the ABS so it can bond with it. The solvents are evil
environmantally, and none of these substances can be bought in stores for
normal mortals afaik (plus the minimum quantities are in the 1 litre
range). Believe me, you don't want to smell any one of these. There are
labels on the cans according to which they should only be opened in outer
space, of farther away, to be safe.

For label adhesive, I don't know GOOP but the well known hot melting glue
ground to dust (actually bought as flakes) and applied with heat (120 deg.
C through the label) works and is chemically inert. Needs a hot jig
(copper plate with handle held on electric heater will do. Use Teflon
sheet to avoid sticking). A cold-apply label type can be bought from the
pharmacy. It is designed to withstand most liquids without coming off
(think mislabeled medicine bottle ?). It can be printed with a laser
printer. Perhaps laminating only one side of this after printing (with the
backing on) will do what you need.

In general roughened ABS (sandblasted) will accept most metal and plastic
paints as well as silkscreening. Smooth ABS won't.

imho laminating and then cutting the edges to trim is a waste on
lamination. Perhaps you can laser-print a mirror image directly on the
backing of the lamination foil (BUT CHECK WITH THE PRINTER - I suspect
that a printer full of lamination foil will result). I use a bubblejet for
similar results without the fuss (heat, warping) by printing a mirror
image on transparent bubble jet paper (expensive, 3M, others). Then I tack
the sheet on, printed side inside. I suppose one could laminate it
directly, as the tacky side seems to be thermoplastic.

imho a good bubblejet beats most 'home' lasers for this. You can buy a 720
dpi printer for ~$200 now. I have used 300dpi to do 15 mil traces with no
great problems (photoresist exposure). A 720 dpi laser will set you back
at least 3 times that much. An Epson will do a stunning 1440 dpi color
rendition on transparent foil (need to fuss with the colors and saturation
though). Bubble supplies (ink bottle) are cheaper than lasers by a LOONG
way. Just pick a well-proven one with little vertical and
horizontal jitter in the mechanism.

Peter

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2000\07\25@124027 by Andre Abelian

picon face
I use 24 inch Roland plotter that can cut a vinyl. I made lots of signs with
it for
windows, car, home made devices that I need quick text on it.


Andre Abelian



> Russell McMahon wrote:
> .....
> >>doesn't "melt" the label or the ABS, like some.
> >
> >
> >I use PVA (Poly Vinyl Acetate) wood-working grade (ie the "strongest"
that I
{Quote hidden}

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'[OT]: producing front panels'
2000\08\02@030256 by -1?Q?Jerko_Golubovi=E6?=
picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph & Helene <@spam@2pilotsRemoveMEspamEraseMEMEDIAONE.NET>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [OT]: producing front panels


> Hi all-
>
> This is a very timely topic for me as I need to do this right now. -
> Wondering if anyone has a good way to print a circular format for a pot on
a
> front panel??

270 degrees, usually.

>
> Also, what's the best way to print a mirror image -egami rorrim  - no that
> doesn't work :-)
>

Mirror image?

Using PostScript - easy.
Save as PostScript using PS compatibile printer driver then use PSTools to
mirror (PSTools exist for Linux and are GPL, no knowledge if they are
compiled for Windows - you can do that with Cygnus compiler). After that use
GhostScript to render output. Metrics will be preserved (PostScript is
proffesionnal format and there is no way it screws up such things).

Using Windows - hard one.
If your application supports mirroring - select it (think Corel does).
Otherwise, go through PosttScript as suggested.
Fact is that Windows printing system is brain-dead (*most* of drivers do not
even support all system functions - PolygonFill method is example) and
sometimes it is even difficult to get proper metrics (trust me, I did have
lot of horror with that).

I rather use PostScript and then directly render for target printer with
GhostScript. Takes a lot of time and resources but results are excellent.

Jerko Golubovic
9A6JGJ

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