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'[OT]: missing tags on replies'
2003\02\11@135717 by Josh Koffman

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I've noticed this too on a bunch of Olin's replies. It must be an OE
issue...anyone have any ideas on this?

Josh
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"Alan B. Pearce" wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2003\02\11@144531 by Dwayne Reid

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At 02:28 PM 2/11/03 -0600, Josh Koffman wrote:
>I've noticed this too on a bunch of Olin's replies. It must be an OE
>issue...anyone have any ideas on this?

Huh?  I just checked the last few messages from Olin: here is what my email
client thinks that Olin's subject line looks like: "Re: [PICLIST] [EE]: was
PIC: Non linear PWM of LEDs"

I'll admit that I didn't check more than a dozen or so of his latest
replies, but those that I did check were all OK.

dwayne

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2003\02\11@152102 by Daniel Imfeld

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Yeah, it's OE 6 (and possilby the full version of Outlook).  As you
know, most mailing lists put in the brackets for you, unlike the PIClist
where you do it yourself to designate content.  So, Microsoft decided
that it's best for you if they just take out the bracketed part at the
beginning of the subject line.  Of course, they don't tell you that this
is happening, and there's no way to disable it that I've found.  You
just have to add the tag back in, but it's easy to forget.  It seems
that OE doesn't remove the bracketed subject if it's not at the
beginning though.

Daniel Imfeld

{Original Message removed}

2003\02\11@165818 by Josh Koffman

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So I guess one solution would be to ask those people that are running
OE6 to turn on the list feature that adds [PICLIST] to the start of each
subject line.

Hope you don't mind me sending this to you too Olin.

Josh
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Daniel Imfeld wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2003\02\11@202911 by Kyrre Aalerud

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wow.  I only realized now that this was happening???
It didn't use to ?

Hmm...  It only happens if you reply to a original post with a header
starting with brackets.  Not if you are replying to a previous reply
starting with Re:...  Annoying!

   KreAture


{Original Message removed}

2003\02\12@040802 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Yeah, it's OE 6 (and possilby the full version of Outlook).

It is OE 5 as well, which is what I am using. I did a little test doing
"dummy" attempts at replying to any message with the square brackets at the
beginning of the subject line, and every time it stripped them.

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2003\02\12@041631 by hael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan B. Pearce [SMTP:.....A.B.PearceKILLspamspam@spam@RL.AC.UK]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:08 AM
> To:   PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      Re: [OT]: missing tags on replies
>
> >Yeah, it's OE 6 (and possilby the full version of Outlook).
>
> It is OE 5 as well, which is what I am using. I did a little test doing
> "dummy" attempts at replying to any message with the square brackets at
> the
> beginning of the subject line, and every time it stripped them.
>
Another interesting OE feature, how surprising.  This has only become an
issue recently AFAICT, is it caused by a recent patch?

Mike

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2003\02\12@050522 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Another interesting OE feature, how surprising.  This has only
>become an issue recently AFAICT, is it caused by a recent patch?

I believe so, as it only seems to have happened on mine since a corporate
patch rollout.

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2003\02\12@091722 by Dennis Crawley

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> It is OE 5 as well, which is what I am using. I did a little test doing
> "dummy" attempts at replying to any message with the square brackets at
the
> beginning of the subject line, and every time it stripped them.

Alan,
Did you try to respond a [PIC]: mail?
It seems that only happens with [OT]: and [EE]: but not happens with [PIC]:
I have thousands of mails with out tag,... Obviously, I can't rule them up
:(

I've made this test:
Drag and drop a mail with [OT]: into the desktop.
Edit the mail with your simple text editor.
Add an SPACE before the TAG [OT]:, and save it.
Drag and drop the mail into its folder, you will have a copy of the
original mail.
When you "Reply" OE leave the tag and add RE:!
I don't know how "adding a space before the tag" can affect the PicList
server.
But If it works, all out there who has OE, should replay at least with the
TAG.


I will looking for this subject into the MS Knowledge base.

Dennis.






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2003\02\12@113742 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Did you try to respond a [PIC]: mail?
>It seems that only happens with [OT]: and [EE]: but
>not happens with [PIC]:

You are right, my OE works OK with the [PIC]: tag as well.
Maybe it is because it is 3 letters instead of 2.

>I have thousands of mails with out tag,... Obviously,
>I can't rule them up :(

Yeah, well I had been wondering why I had so many untagged mails when I came
back from downunder, and many of them from guys I had figured were pretty
good at putting on tags. Obviously someone had replied to a tagged message,
and the tag got dropped, and then there was effectively two threads running,
one tagged and one untagged. It was real obvious to me as I use the tags to
sort them into different mail boxes on receipt.

Guess everyone will just have to be vigilant when replying to the first
message on a thread. :)) Otherwise dale is going to have to burn off more
karma doing the thankless job of reminding everyone. :)))))

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2003\02\12@194741 by Daniel Imfeld

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OE kept the tag in when I clicked Reply for a recent [AVR] post too, so
it seems that you're right about the three letter minimum.  Of course,
it doesn't make any sense that Microsoft would program it that way, but
it is happening nevertheless.

Daniel Imfeld

{Original Message removed}

2003\02\12@214935 by Dennis Crawley

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> Guess everyone will just have to be vigilant when replying to the first
> message on a thread. :)) Otherwise dale is going to have to burn off more
> karma doing the thankless job of reminding everyone. :)))))


Ok!
Mystery resolved:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;245199

In my humble opinion we should add an extra character in tags with 4 chrs.
eg SX,OT, EE  to stop the annoying and chaotic stream of untagged mails.

Regards,
Dennis.


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2003\02\15@230747 by James Newton, webhost

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source= http://www.piclist.com/postbot.asp?id=piclist\2003\02\12\214935a

<BLOCKQUOTE>
Mystery resolved:
support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;245199

In my humble opinion we should add an extra character in tags with 4 chrs.
eg SX,OT, EE  to stop the annoying and chaotic stream of untagged mails.
</BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh great... Well, we can change the name of the topics (with difficulty),
but we can't remove the : (lsoft listserv requires it; MIT says they are
going to update to something better "real soon now")

Can somebody with this version of OE do a quick test and see if it removes
the tag when the colon is *inside* the brackets? e.g. [OT:] rather than
[OT]: It turns out that lsoft deals with that At first glance, that probably
will not help, but you never know what evil lurks in the minds of men... it
might just honor the brackets.

Any suggestions for the extra character? M for Microshit? S for Stupid? Or
go for broke: [EEmicrosoftsucks]: [OTmicrosoftsucks]:

Lsoft says it can NOT be a space, comma, equals, plus, or minus. ( ,=+-)

Other (bad) ideas: remind people to add a comma or space before the tag.
e.g. ,[OT]:

And just because I love to hear 500 responses and start big arguments, as
long as we have to change the tags anyway, how about canning the brackets?
e.g. ONPIC: ONSXS: ONAVR: TRONS: OTHER: SELLING: BUYING:

Rather than replying, please click here to vote:
.....jamesKILLspamspam.....piclist.com?subject=DROP_BRACKETS
EraseMEjamesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTpiclist.com?subject=KEEP_BRACKETS

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2003\02\15@232036 by Daniel Imfeld

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I just tried it, and putting the colon inside the brackets works.
Although the knowledge base article doesn't mention it, it seems that if
there isn't a space after the colon, OE doesn't remove anything from the
subject line.

{Original Message removed}

2003\02\15@235832 by Robert Rolf

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So we're going to knuckle under to MicroSloth and change the tags on
our list to accommodate one of OE's 'features'?
I vote ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

How many MicroSloth programmers does it take to change a light bulb??
None. They simply redefine 'darkness' to be the new standard.

From below link...
"
SYMPTOMS
If a colon (:) appears in the subject of a message, Outlook
Express removes the colon and the text appearing before the colon
(up to 4 characters) when you reply to or forward the message.

STATUS
This behavior is by design.

To prevent subjects from being cluttered with unnecessary text
when a message is forwarded or replied to multiple times,
Outlook Express removes text in the subject that contains from
one to four characters and is followed by a colon
(for example, "Fw:", "Re:", or "Read:").
Earlier versions of Outlook Express remove only strings of from
one to three characters. With the introduction of read receipts
(which contain "Read:" in the subject), the string length was
increased to four  characters.
"
How long before they extend the feature to 5 then 6 then 7 characters?

Leave things the way the are and let those users who choose OE add the
extra spaces needed to get their mail to post correctly. Why impose
verbosity on those who don't follow the great the MicroSloth way?

Can you tell I've been having yet another fight with yet another MS
'non-standard' standard??

"James Newton, webhost" wrote:
{Quote hidden}

According to the article, it would. You'd end up with "] rather than..."
Is the lsoft software doing an exact match for the keyword?
If so, why not add multiple tags with the same output list.
E.G. [OT]: and "..[OT]:" both go to the OT list.

Since people have to put in the [OT]: anyway, it can't be that
hard for OE users to put in ..[OT]: or [..OT]: or [OT..]:
Heck. [..OT]: can be for WAY off topic.

If I understand things correctly, all users would have to do is put
extra spaces in front of the EXISTING tags, and all would be well
Lsoft would strip the whitespace when parsing, and OE wouldn't mess
with the colons. Everybody happy?

> [OT]: It turns out that lsoft deals with that At first glance, that probably
> will not help, but you never know what evil lurks in the minds of men... it
> might just honor the brackets.
>
> Any suggestions for the extra character? M for Microshit? S for Stupid? Or
> go for broke: [EEmicrosoftsucks]: [OTmicrosoftsucks]:
>
> Lsoft says it can NOT be a space, comma, equals, plus, or minus. ( ,=+-)

Which leaves period, as I suggested.

{Quote hidden}

You have no provision for suggesting new keywords, should you cave in
to Microsloth with this change.

Robert

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2003\02\18@205921 by James Newton, webhost

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Ok, so it looks like we can get away with
A) Changing ever bit of documentation to show the colon INSIDE the brackets
so that people will post with [OT:] instead of [OT]: I guess that is mostly
my task.

B) Making the default for new users the [PICLIST] automatically added to the
subject line in front of the topic tag. Josh? Herb? Anyone? How do we do
that?

C) adding an item to the list FAQ to ask people who have Outhose to turn on
the [PICLIST] tagging. It's easy; just send SET PICLIST SUBJ in the body of
an email to RemoveMEListservspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu or in most email readers, just click
here:
LISTSERVEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU?body=SET%20PICLIST%20SUBJecthdr

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