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'[OT]: handy gadget'
2001\01\03@074606 by Roman Black

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Hi, anyone here got a non-contact infrared
(emissive) thermomter? I got one for xmas and
it's great. You can point it at any chip,
heatsink, power resistor etc and it tells you
in less than a second how hot it is.

Not super-accurate, but it's within a degree
at most of the temps I measure. Great for
checking temp rise in the motors and drivers
I'm working on.
:o)
-Roman

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2001\01\03@084539 by Eisermann, Phil [Ridg/CO]

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We've got one of those in our test lab. We use it to measure heat rise on
threaded steel pipe (its difficult to get a thermocouple in there). Are you
asking out of curiosity?

{Original Message removed}

2001\01\03@093145 by James Paul

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Yea, I've got a FLUKE 80T-IR that I use a t work.  It is indeed a
very handy and almost indispensible tool for what I do.  I work in
an advanced engineering lab and I use it all the time for measuring
the temperature of many different things.  Such as soldering temp,
heat rise in IC's, room temp, resistor temp in prototype circuits,
etc., etc.  You get the idea.  Very good investment.

                                            Regards,

                                              Jim




On Wed, 03 January 2001, Roman Black wrote:

{Quote hidden}

spam_OUTjimTakeThisOuTspamjpes.com

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2001\01\03@093944 by Stephen B Webb

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>  the temperature of many different things.  Such as soldering temp,
>  heat rise in IC's, room temp, resistor temp in prototype circuits,
>  etc., etc.  You get the idea.  Very good investment.

Another (way off-topic) use is in working on cars.  In a former life I was
a mechanic, and we used it to test for stuck / broken thermostats, clogged
heater / oil hoses, etc.  More than once it was used to measure how "hot"
we were.  Didn't work :)

-Steve

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2001\01\03@112536 by Dan Michaels

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Roman Black wrote:
>Hi, anyone here got a non-contact infrared
>(emissive) thermomter? I got one for xmas and
>it's great.

Boy, somebody sure knows how to keep "you" happy.
:)

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2001\01\03@115626 by Roman Black

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Yes. Wondering if many people use them, and
maybe hoping for some tips re what it's good
for. :o)
-Roman


Eisermann, Phil [Ridg/CO] wrote:
>
> We've got one of those in our test lab. We use it to measure heat rise on
> threaded steel pipe (its difficult to get a thermocouple in there). Are you
> asking out of curiosity?
>
> {Original Message removed}

2001\01\03@121117 by M. Adam Davis

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Apparently it's good for Christmas gifts... ;-)

I can see myself using it to check the temperature on a thermister to help
calibrate it, rather than securing the thermister and another sensor to a
block of metal and waiting for both their temperatures to stabilize...

-Adam

Roman Black wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2001\01\03@232954 by robertf

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I wonder how they correct for
emmisivity(sp)? Has anyone
tried doing an accuracy test
for something like a Kanthal
furnace?
What's the max temp on this? I
have a need to read a target
that is inside a (glass)clear
envelope ( also hot) will it
read the envelope or the
target?

tia-rf



{Original Message removed}

2001\01\04@004255 by Roman Black

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robertf wrote:
>
> I wonder how they correct for
> emmisivity(sp)? Has anyone
> tried doing an accuracy test
> for something like a Kanthal
> furnace?
> What's the max temp on this? I
> have a need to read a target
> that is inside a (glass)clear
> envelope ( also hot) will it
> read the envelope or the
> target?


Mine is a cheaper unit, measures -20c to +260c.

It compensates with an internal temp sensor
against the emissivity of the thing you point
it at. This seems to work well. It may take
3 seconds to compensate when first turned on but
then readings are 0.4 sec.

Checked it against my quality mercury lab
thermometer, seemed within a degree at temps
up to about 70c (heatsinks). Instructions say
+/-3degrees or 3% whichever greater, but the
accuracy I measured was many times greater
than that. Maybe if used in full sun or
something it might be a bit off. In the workshop
it was within a digit, 3 digit display no dp.

I'm very happy with it, pointing it around the
fridge I found lots of carrots at 0c, and one at
8c. My woman was laughing at my confusion, it
was the carrot she put back in the fridge 5 mins
before. Pretty impressive toy (sorry tool!)
-Roman

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2001\01\04@005405 by Robert Rolf

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Because the glass envelope is opaqe to IR, you will only
read the envelope temperature and NOT the target inside.

For proof of this, just look at a near IR image of a house. The
windows always show up as dark even though the inside air and
objects are much hotter. Same thing for a human face with eyeglasses.
Eyeballs don't register because the glass lenses block the IR from the
eyes.

robertf wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2001\01\04@005424 by Roman Black

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robertf wrote:
>
> I wonder how they correct for
> emmisivity(sp)? Has anyone
> tried doing an accuracy test
> for something like a Kanthal
> furnace?
> What's the max temp on this? I
> have a need to read a target
> that is inside a (glass)clear
> envelope ( also hot) will it
> read the envelope or the
> target?

Sorry I forgot to anser your second question.
I believe it will read the target. I was
doing the same with the roast in our oven,
was able to measure the temp difference between
the meat and metalwork inside the oven through
the glass door.

Think of it like a light meter, if you point
it at a bright light source inside a glass,
or inside a lesser "glow", it will measure the
most intense light.
-Roman

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2001\01\04@011255 by Robert Rolf

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It very much depends on what kind of glass you're trying to look
through.

http://www.noao.edu/kpno/filters/sgt.html


Roman Black wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\04@013645 by Roman Black

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Robert Rolf wrote:
>
> It very much depends on what kind of glass you're trying to look
> through.

You obviously know more about this than I do,
but it occurs to me that you could do one
set of tests with a thermocouple and compare
to the reading on the non-contact unit.
Surely this would give a simple chart or table
that would then allow the more convenient system
to be used with ok accuracy?
-Roman

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2001\01\04@015822 by Robert Rolf

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Because the attenuation of the glass varies with wavelength, and
since the wavelength of the emission varies with temperature (white hot
vs red hot) I don't see how one could distinguish a between the
attenuation caused by the glass and the black body emission of the
source. I suppose one could develop a look up table calibration for
a particular setup, as long as the envelop temperature is known (since
it
would be contributing to the reading).

Roman Black wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\04@024152 by Roman Black

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Robert Rolf wrote:
>
> Because the glass envelope is opaqe to IR, you will only
> read the envelope temperature and NOT the target inside.
>
> For proof of this, just look at a near IR image of a house. The
> windows always show up as dark even though the inside air and
> objects are much hotter. Same thing for a human face with eyeglasses.
> Eyeballs don't register because the glass lenses block the IR from the
> eyes.

Ooooh. Now there's a WHOLE HEAP of things I just
have to test! ;o)
-Roman

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2001\01\04@025654 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <007b01c075fe$9e87d960$c40d53d1@c525lab>, robertf
<.....robertfKILLspamspam@spam@MICROBALANCE.COM> writes
>I wonder how they correct for
>emmisivity(sp)? Has anyone
>tried doing an accuracy test
>for something like a Kanthal
>furnace?
>What's the max temp on this? I
>have a need to read a target
>that is inside a (glass)clear
>envelope ( also hot) will it
>read the envelope or the
>target?

I saw a really nice one a few years ago, it used a Ricoh auto-focus lens
(just like an SLR), it was used at a coal fired power station for
maintenance purposes - they regularly recorded measurements at various
places, looking for changes signifying a possible problem. This one
would read a humans body temperature at 20-30 feet, and went up to
seriously high temperatures - as they obviously need in a power
station!. I suspect it was SERIOUS!! money!.
--

Nigel.

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       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : nigelgspamKILLspamlpilsley.co.uk           |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.co.uk       |
       | Chesterfield    | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit   |
       | England         |                 Ju Jitsu                   |
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2001\01\04@072001 by Andrew Kunz

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Robert,

I worked on one of these with another guy on the PIC list (Gerhard Fiedler)
several years ago.  His unit was for the steel industry.  It seems to me that it
measured the temperature of what it was focused on (IR wavelength).

Andy









robertf <.....robertfKILLspamspam.....MICROBALANCE.COM> on 01/03/2001 10:30:00 PM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








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cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [OT]: handy gadget








I wonder how they correct for
emmisivity(sp)? Has anyone
tried doing an accuracy test
for something like a Kanthal
furnace?
What's the max temp on this? I
have a need to read a target
that is inside a (glass)clear
envelope ( also hot) will it
read the envelope or the
target?

tia-rf



{Original Message removed}

2001\01\04@172023 by Peter L. Peres

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Robert,

correction for emissivity is done by measuring several (three usually)
bands. If the source is sufficiently diffuse it will not be fooled too
much. Afaik, if you try to read a temperature through something then you
need to correct for the something. In other words, measure temperature of
transparent something, and measure inside the something transparent. Then
you process the second reading to obtain the correct reading for inside.
The formula involves the transmittance of the transparent something for
the radiation of the inside something. Both temperatures must be read with
the same kind of instrument and preferrably with a parallel beam (using
refractive infrared optics).

Peter

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