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'[OT]: aol smtp address'
2001\08\31@221255 by Andy N1YEW

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Does anyone know what AOL's smtp address is?

Thanks,
Andy

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2001\08\31@231008 by Tim Hamel

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Sorry, you'll never be able to get it, nor will you be able to retrieve their
POP server address either. Even if you got what you think is their address,
the server name will change. Tightened security.

-Tim

In a message dated 8/31/01 7:13:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
spam_OUTn1yewTakeThisOuTspamSOFTHOME.NET writes:


Does anyone know what AOL's smtp address is?

Thanks,
Andy

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'[OT]: aol smtp address'
2001\09\01@010648 by Tim Hamel
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Umm...these look like all proxy servers to me. Like I said, even if you get
the name for the SMTP server, there's NO chance you'll be able to use it.

-Tim

In a message dated 8/31/01 8:31:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
.....n1yewKILLspamspam@spam@softhome.net writes:


nmap -st -p 25 -T Insane 152.163.213.*

basically .1 - 254 are servers

gives you all the smtp servers.

andy -- my friend told me :-)

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2001\09\01@223048 by Dale Botkin

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Nonsense.  If the SMTP address were unavailable, how do you think AOL
subscribers would get their daily load of SPAM?

You can use nslookup on a Unix, Linux or NT system to determine currently
active mail exchangers for any domain.  Right now AOL is listing
mailin-01, mailin-02, mailin-03 and mailin-04.aol.mx.aol.com as their
four equally-weighted MX machines.  Each of those in turn resolve to three
or four IP addresses in a round-robin DNS arrangement.

Dale

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Tim Hamel wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\09\02@014806 by Tim Hamel

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Guess I wasn't clear at first...

Sure, you can find out what server names they use, but matching the IP addy
to the currently active one is another story. Believe me, there are A LOT
more than 4 mail servers. There's servers in the mx.aol.com domain as well as
mail.aol.com. Sorry, but nslookup isn't getting ALL of the mail servers. And
what's AOL's SMTP server have to do with SPAM? Also, AOL uses their own
proprietary method of sending mail which is another reason SMTP servers are
no worky.

Regards,

Tim Hamel

In a message dated 9/1/01 7:31:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, .....daleKILLspamspam.....BOTKIN.ORG
writes:


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2001\09\02@164519 by Dale Botkin

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The server names are all you should need anyway, if you care about
standards.  As for the "currently active one", that would be whichever one
you are connected to... *ANY* hostname that shows up as an MX record with
nslookup is "currently active".  They have several SMTP servers active at
all times, partly for fault tolerance and partly due to the enormous
amount of mail being received for AOL members from SPAMmers (there's that
connection).  The concept of "THE mail server" (singluar) is pretty well
outdated for most enterprises.

Where I work, we have more than one MX record, and each of those is a
virtual IP that connects to a load balancer, which directs the connection
to one of N number of SMTP servers behind it.  Redundancy on top of
redundancy, load balancing on top of load balancing.

Another common practice is to have one set of servers for incoming mail
and another set for outgoing mail.  Your outgoing mail servers don't need
to be specifically designated as such, as do your incoming mail servers
using MX records.

In short: Nslookup *will* get all mail servers that AOL wants to accept
incoming mail.  You may or may not be able to determins which are being
used for outgoing mail, probably not.  SPAM being sent to AOL addresses
will go through the inbound mail servers, determined by MX records in the
DNS system.  And if AOL uses a proprietary methods of sending mail, it's
only internally...  if they presented a nonstandard mail interface to the
rest of the world, the rest of the world would be unable to communicate
with AOL users.  Whether this is a bad thing or not is a determination
left up to the individual reader.

I may not know a lot about much, but I do have some small degree of
passing familiarity with TCP/IP, DNS, mail and other Internet protocols.
Perhaps some clue as to what it is exactly you're trying to do would clear
up any remaining confusion.

Dale

On Sun, 2 Sep 2001, Tim Hamel wrote:

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2001\09\03@061603 by Tim Hamel

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Sorry, don't mean to start an argument or anything, just speaking from my
experience.

The way I picture it is like this. AOL users who compose mail and hit send go
to the SMTP servers via their proprietary crap. Then, when the mail bounces
out of AOL's network via the SMTP server, it's all standard. In other words,
you can't connect to AOL's SMTP servers, no matter what. I can't really
explain their IP/DNS addressing as it's quite complicated. The only thing
constant is their proxy server! Even their TCP/IP (you can connect to 'em via
TCP/IP instead of dialing up which is what I do) connection server is
"secure" in that its IP changes almost by the minute.

As for POP, I haven't investigated that. Would be nice if they opened up
their POP servers so you can telnet in instead of using their web based
stuff. Btw, I'm not the OP, the topic caught my eye because I too wanted to
find out how to do SMTP/POP with AOL's servers.

Regards,

Tim Hamel

In a message dated 9/2/01 1:46:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, RemoveMEdaleTakeThisOuTspamBOTKIN.ORG
writes:


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2001\09\03@220706 by Dale Botkin

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On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Tim Hamel wrote:

> Sorry, don't mean to start an argument or anything, just speaking from my
> experience.

No problem.  I try very hard not to sound like an arse, and usually fail
miserably, so please adjust your mental filters accordingly...  8-)

> The way I picture it is like this. AOL users who compose mail and hit send go
> to the SMTP servers via their proprietary crap. Then, when the mail bounces
> out of AOL's network via the SMTP server, it's all standard. In other words,
> you can't connect to AOL's SMTP servers, no matter what.

Welll....  I have not used AOL since we maintained a test account in '95,
but at that time, their client software did indeed use some sort of funky
proprietary protocol (as did everything else associated with AOL).  I have
no clue how the AOL client end of things are handled right now, but
nothing would surprise me about that...  NOTHING.

Having said that, though, let's agree on some semantics: If it's a
proprietary protocol, it's not SMTP.  SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol)
is the Internet standard, anything else - well, isn't SMTP.  So once the
mail needs to traverse the Internet, it's SMTP.  Within AOL's own systems,
it could be EBCDIC coded Navajo or ROT13 Swedish Chef bork filtered
Swahili, I dunno.

> I can't really explain their IP/DNS addressing as it's quite
> complicated. The only thing constant is their proxy server! Even their
> TCP/IP (you can connect to 'em via TCP/IP instead of dialing up which
> is what I do) connection server is "secure" in that its IP changes
> almost by the minute.

That's usually a side effect of a highly redundant round-robin or other
algorithm load balancing arrangement.  You have X number of IP addresses
in DNS for the same host name, and set a very short TTL (Time To Live) for
the zone.  This means the client does a DNS lookup often, and will get
some semi-random different answer every time.  This minimizes the impact
of a failed server and spreads traffic across X number of servers, and
allows you to take them in and out of service on short notice.  You can do
this with just DNS, or use something like F5's (http://www.f5.com/)
products.

> As for POP, I haven't investigated that. Would be nice if they opened up
> their POP servers so you can telnet in instead of using their web based
> stuff. Btw, I'm not the OP, the topic caught my eye because I too wanted to
> find out how to do SMTP/POP with AOL's servers.

Here again...  if you can telnet to port 110 and use POP3 commands, it's
POP, otherwise it's something else.  Most of the web based email setups
use SSL on port 443 so it can't be sniffed between the client and the
server.  Hotmail used to, but apparently now the new owners don't care
about the privacy of their uers.

> Regards,
>
> Tim Hamel

Have a great week!

Dale

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2001\09\04@040936 by Tim Hamel

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In a message dated 9/3/01 7:07:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, EraseMEdalespamBOTKIN.ORG
writes:


> On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Tim Hamel wrote:
>
> > Sorry, don't mean to start an argument or anything, just speaking from my
> > experience.
>
> No problem.  I try very hard not to sound like an arse, and usually fail
> miserably, so please adjust your mental filters accordingly...  8-)

Actually, it wasn't you, I was afraid that *I* would sound argumentative.

{Quote hidden}

Maybe I'll do some packet sniffing and send a test message to another account
of mine and see what I pick up. Might be interesting. Also, with AOL's mail
client (in version 6), when I highlight someone's mail and hit reply, it'll
copy the reply but I'll see  the blue bar down the side (as opposed to ">")
which means it's HTML and I know how many people hate HTML in messages -- my
apologies, can't help it.


>
> Having said that, though, let's agree on some semantics: If it's a
> proprietary protocol, it's not SMTP.  SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol)
> is the Internet standard, anything else - well, isn't SMTP.  So once the
> mail needs to traverse the Internet, it's SMTP.  Within AOL's own systems,
> it could be EBCDIC coded Navajo or ROT13 Swedish Chef bork filtered
> Swahili, I dunno.

Oh, it's SMTP, but not the standard "Simple"MTP, but "Silly"MTP.

{Quote hidden}

Which is why I hate when I can't connect to AOL via TCP/IP and I call them up
and all the "techs" say is "Unplug your PC, jump up and down twice and tap
your kittiy's front right paw 3 times -- now try" Sometimes they're
redundancy fails (though, rarely I should say).


{Quote hidden}

Yea, I think AOL's POP "protocol" is the reverse of SMTP, it receives via
their servers and delivers by their quirky/goofy POP "protocol."

>
> > Regards,
> >
> > Tim Hamel
>
> Have a great week!
>

You Too!

-Tim Hamel


> Dale

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