Post by thread:[OT]: Why cannot some of us play well with others.

Actually, Olin, he DID get some responses from those of us who KNOW who Avocet is/was, who KNOW what the AVMAC51 assembler is/was, who don't discriminate against people who use processors other than the PIC/SX, and who regularly use DOS programs because of need or desire. Why do you insist on continually showing the PICLIST community just how boorish and trivial you can be by firing off emails that tell us nothing except why you wouldn't send a reply in the first place. Frankly, if you cannot or will not provide a considerate, useful response, don't. I've had several newbie PICLISTers complain off-line about you and a couple other of our most cantankerous members over the past few months. Make no mistake about it; you are a valuable PICLIST member and when you do manage to provide help, it is usually of very high quality. However, when you rant on as below, I have to wonder why James doesn't step in with a warning about civility. I, for one, grow quickly weary of the kind of response found below. If saying this, James, get me kicked off the PICLIST, fine. I feel, however, that we shouldn't allow Olin's bad temperament to ruin an otherwise great discussion group. In words I assume you'll understand, knock it off!!! Douglas Wood Software Engineer spam_OUTdbwoodTakeThisOuTkc.rr.com Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC and SX http://epicis.piclist.com {Quote hidden}> Look -------, I saw your message the first time. If I wanted to > respond to it I would have. I guess others didn't respond either. > You are not owed an answer. You asked a bunch of people for a favor, > and in this case they all declined. That's life. Get over it. > Sending me the same message again privately is just going to piss me > off, which may cause me to avoid helping you next time. > > I can't say why others didn't respond to your original message, but I > didn't because: > > 1) I've never heard of Avocet. > > 2) I've never heard of the AVMAC51 package. > > 3) It's a pure 8051 question on the PIC list. Go ask on an 8051 > list. Duh! > > 4) The kind of person looking for an obsolete product that ran on > DOS that the company doesn't even want to acknowledge anymore > is usually a waste of time. > > > ******************************************************************** > Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts > (978) 742-9014, .....olinKILLspam@spam@embedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Well said! -Nick T. Douglas Wood wrote: {Quote hidden}> > Actually, Olin, he DID get some responses from those of us who KNOW who > Avocet is/was, who KNOW what the AVMAC51 assembler is/was, who don't > discriminate against people who use processors other than the PIC/SX, and > who regularly use DOS programs because of need or desire. > > Why do you insist on continually showing the PICLIST community just how > boorish and trivial you can be by firing off emails that tell us nothing > except why you wouldn't send a reply in the first place. Frankly, if you > cannot or will not provide a considerate, useful response, don't. I've had > several newbie PICLISTers complain off-line about you and a couple other of > our most cantankerous members over the past few months. Make no mistake > about it; you are a valuable PICLIST member and when you do manage to > provide help, it is usually of very high quality. However, when you rant on > as below, I have to wonder why James doesn't step in with a warning about > civility. I, for one, grow quickly weary of the kind of response found > below. > > If saying this, James, get me kicked off the PICLIST, fine. I feel, however, > that we shouldn't allow Olin's bad temperament to ruin an otherwise great > discussion group. In words I assume you'll understand, knock it off!!! > > Douglas Wood > Software Engineer > dbwoodKILLspamkc.rr.com > > Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC and SX > http://epicis.piclist.com > > > Look -------, I saw your message the first time. If I wanted to > > respond to it I would have. I guess others didn't respond either. > > You are not owed an answer. You asked a bunch of people for a favor, > > and in this case they all declined. That's life. Get over it. > > Sending me the same message again privately is just going to piss me > > off, which may cause me to avoid helping you next time. > > > > I can't say why others didn't respond to your original message, but I > > didn't because: > > > > 1) I've never heard of Avocet. > > > > 2) I've never heard of the AVMAC51 package. > > > > 3) It's a pure 8051 question on the PIC list. Go ask on an 8051 > > list. Duh! > > > > 4) The kind of person looking for an obsolete product that ran on > > DOS that the company doesn't even want to acknowledge anymore > > is usually a waste of time. > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts > > (978) 742-9014, .....olinKILLspam.....embedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

When anyone has problems with another list member, they need to contact me directly and NOT complain publicly on the list. That applies to Olin, Douglas and everybody else. I hadn't respond to that post yet because I hadn't had time to see it and nobody bothered to forward it to me off-list to let me know what was going on. Actually, that's not true, someone did send me a private bitch about Olin's post (thank you) but they didn't forward the offending message so I didn't realize what was up, and the list server has been having problems so I didn't receive the original post until just about an hour ago. If you have a problem, just forward the post to EraseMEjamesnewtonspam_OUTTakeThisOuTpiclist.com, or in most email clients, just click on jamesnewtonspam_OUTpiclist.com and yell at me about them. Believe me, when they seem to be a member that will not respond to my off-list suggestions and warnings, I will drop the problem child off the list no matter how smart, valuable, or generous they are. It just takes me longer to give up on the really smart ones. No further posts on this thread. FINAL WARNING! James Newton, PICList Admin #3 @spam@jamesnewtonKILLspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593 phone http://www.piclist.com {Original Message removed}

Douglas, i couldn't agree with u more. -seyi Nick Taylor wrote: {Quote hidden}> Well said! > -Nick T. > > Douglas Wood wrote: > > > > Actually, Olin, he DID get some responses from those of us who KNOW who > > Avocet is/was, who KNOW what the AVMAC51 assembler is/was, who don't > > discriminate against people who use processors other than the PIC/SX, and > > who regularly use DOS programs because of need or desire. > > > > Why do you insist on continually showing the PICLIST community just how > > boorish and trivial you can be by firing off emails that tell us nothing > > except why you wouldn't send a reply in the first place. Frankly, if you > > cannot or will not provide a considerate, useful response, don't. I've had > > several newbie PICLISTers complain off-line about you and a couple other of > > our most cantankerous members over the past few months. Make no mistake > > about it; you are a valuable PICLIST member and when you do manage to > > provide help, it is usually of very high quality. However, when you rant on > > as below, I have to wonder why James doesn't step in with a warning about > > civility. I, for one, grow quickly weary of the kind of response found > > below. > > > > If saying this, James, get me kicked off the PICLIST, fine. I feel, however, > > that we shouldn't allow Olin's bad temperament to ruin an otherwise great > > discussion group. In words I assume you'll understand, knock it off!!! > > > > Douglas Wood > > Software Engineer > > KILLspamdbwoodKILLspamkc.rr.com > > > > Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC and SX > > http://epicis.piclist.com > > > > > Look -------, I saw your message the first time. If I wanted to > > > respond to it I would have. I guess others didn't respond either. > > > You are not owed an answer. You asked a bunch of people for a favor, > > > and in this case they all declined. That's life. Get over it. > > > Sending me the same message again privately is just going to piss me > > > off, which may cause me to avoid helping you next time. > > > > > > I can't say why others didn't respond to your original message, but I > > > didn't because: > > > > > > 1) I've never heard of Avocet. > > > > > > 2) I've never heard of the AVMAC51 package. > > > > > > 3) It's a pure 8051 question on the PIC list. Go ask on an 8051 > > > list. Duh! > > > > > > 4) The kind of person looking for an obsolete product that ran on > > > DOS that the company doesn't even want to acknowledge anymore > > > is usually a waste of time. > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts > > > (978) 742-9014, RemoveMEolinTakeThisOuTembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- Seyi Odeinde Software Development Engineer Earth-Ocean Systems Instrumentation for extreme environments Email: spamBeGoneseyispamBeGoneearth-ocean.com Tel: ++44 (0) 2920 876 620 - DL ++44 (0) 7799 537 184 - Mobile -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

I hate to blow bandwidth on this kind of thing, but I really don't get this at all. It seems to me that Olin is a guy who values his time highly, yet he obviously contributes a fair amount of it to responding to the posts that he chooses. Not only do his technical answers seem well considered and helpful, I personally cannot find fault with his non-technical suggestions either. (Read the archives; don't expect others to do it all for you; don't email me for answers to questions that that I have not chosen to address.) Seems like common sense to me. I have been (mostly) a lurker here for a long time, and I have learned a very great deal here. Unfortunately, over time I have seen quite a few active and helpful participants driven away by rudeness, pettiness, insensitivity, and the kind of name-calling demonstrated in this particular post. Obviously Mr. Davis doesn't care if Olin signs off, he's resigning anyway. OTOH, I do care, and sincerely hope that this new round of pettiness goes to sleep without our losing any more of our very fine contributors. I would just like to take this opportunity to thank Olin, and all of the other generous posters who make this list such a great resource. Foster > {Original Message removed}

It seems to me that Olin is a guy who values his time highly, yet he obviously contributes a fair amount of it to responding to the posts that he chooses. Not only do his technical answers seem well considered and helpful, I personally cannot find fault with his non-technical suggestions either. I agree. Olin's contributions outweigh his occasional curmudgeonly comments by a long shot. Besides, people treating the piclist like it's some paid-for customer-support service ("It's been 24 hours! Where's the answer to my question!") pisses me off almost as much as it does him. :-) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Oh, Douglas, I don't see the point, dumping on Olin like that. Look, Olin has his style, abrupt, no-nonsense, no pussy-footing either. Harsh, maybe, but to-the-point the first time and consistently so for a buss-load of posters. Reminds me of some autocratic profs I've had. Do the right thing, make an effort, that was merely OK, sluff-off--worse, be unprepared--look out! After a while the class adjusted just fine. I think Olin's like that and it's okay by me, I think his heart is in the right parts bin. So I'll ask you to be more understanding. PICListers have a good list, lot's-o-great guys here. Let's all take a deep breath occasionally. Peter Barick, PIC newbee >>> TakeThisOuTdbwoodEraseMEspam_OUTKC.RR.COM 06/21/01 07:56PM >>> Actually, Olin, ... <<klip>> Why do you insist on continually showing the PICLIST community just how boorish and trivial you can be by ... <<klip>> Douglas Wood Software Engineer RemoveMEdbwoodTakeThisOuTkc.rr.com Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC and SX http://epicis.piclist.com > Look -------, I saw your message the first time. If I wanted to > respond to it I would have. I guess others didn't respond either. > You are not owed an answer. You asked a bunch of people for a favor, > and in this case they all declined. That's life. Get over it. > Sending me the same message again privately is just going to piss me > off, which may cause me to avoid helping you next time. <<klip>> -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList piclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseME.....mitvma.mit.edu

So... let me get this straight: It's OK for Olin to be nasty to people on-list, but not for me to publicly decry his attitude? So, Peter Barick, PIC newbee, will you still believe this way if Olin (or anyone else) provides YOU with a "abrupt, no-nonsense, no pussy-footing" retort? If you'd read my response to Olin, I think you'll find that I gave due consideration to his contributions to the List. Those invaluable Lathrop gems are just that; why muck with success by tainting it with vitriol? As an earlier post said, Olin is certainly entitiled to respond to what he considers annoyances in his life. If he gets a private message which bothers him, let him respond in any why he feels required IN PRIVATE. AMEN! But to take a private email and repost it to the PICLIST for the sheer fun of publicly chastising someone is uncalled for. The bulk of the members of the PICLIST seem to be able to conduct themselves with consideration and dignity. I simply feel that the small remaining few should make every attempt to do the same. Douglas Wood Software Engineer EraseMEdbwoodkc.rr.com Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC and SX http://epicis.piclist.com {Original Message removed}

Douglas Wood wrote: > As an earlier post said, Olin is certainly entitiled to respond to what he > considers annoyances in his life. If he gets a private message which bothers > him, let him respond in any why he feels required IN PRIVATE. AMEN! But to > take a private email and repost it to the PICLIST for the sheer fun of > publicly chastising someone is uncalled for. I have to agree on this point. I don't care if someone offlist gets Olin pissed off just as much as I don't care what people here do in their bedrooms at night while dressed in bunny suits while carrying bottles of chocolate syrup. Some things should just be left PRIVATE!! -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTKILLspammitvma.mit.edu

Douglas opines--ready for this?--"understand[ing] the American way," albeit, in his inimical way. Sadly, I cannot read this without wondering are his vitriolics representative of this PICList, i.e., is this a consensus--or one frustrated soul crying out loud. Do other PICsters see a problem responding as Douglas did? ... is this the direction the list is headed? ... is such rhetoric condoned by listers? Let's begin to look at this constructively. Granted, Douglas appears angry, but even a "3[-year-old]" is expected to comport himself with civil panache. You, Douglas? Let's read on ... PB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> "Douglas Wood" <RemoveMEdbwoodTakeThisOuTspamkc.rr.com> 06/25/01 06:23PM >>> >>Peter, >>What kind of fucking bullshit crap are you spewing from your newbee ass now? >>Where the fuck do you think you get off as a [!!] fucking lowlife newbee [!!] >>having any input to any conversation that you see on the PICLIST?!? >>How fucking old are you, anyway? 3? Why don't you go immediately to your >>email client software and type "[PIC]: UNSUBSCRIBE" right fucking now since >>it's pretty obvious that you will never be able to run with even the worst >>of the PICLIST membership. >>------------------------------------------------------- <<klip>> >>Also, please understand that many people on the List are 1) from countries >>and cultures that do not understand the American way [???? Ahem, Your Way ! ] >>of speaking [ Spewing??] our minds so freely. ... <<klip>> Yes, your civics lesson is quite unexpected considering your exposed "credentials." However, some, as we see here, wrongly mouth "freedoms" but ignore accepted responsibilities of civil deportment. Freedom does not excuse contumely behavior and irrationality, nor condones incivility. While I sense your pain, I do not understand your vehemence for my simple suggestion and attempted explanation in my prior post. PB <<Have a good one... Thank you, Douglas, I'll make it okay. Peter Barick, PIC newbee >>Douglas Wood >>Software Engineer >>EraseMEdbwoodspamspamBeGonekc.rr.com >>Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC and SX -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

PeterB wrote: >Douglas opines--ready for this?--"understand[ing] the American way," >albeit, in his inimical way. Sadly, I cannot read this without wondering >are his vitriolics representative of this PICList, i.e., is this a >consensus--or one frustrated soul crying out loud. > >Do other PICsters see a problem responding as Douglas did? ... is this >the direction the list is headed? ... is such rhetoric condoned by >listers? Let's begin to look at this constructively. > It is the purpose of the moderator to deal with something as "blatant" as what you mentioned. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

It is with sadness an dismay that I have today seen two things that should NEVER have happened: A PIClist member flaming another (though privately), using gross profanity and personal insults and trying to cast the PIClist as some sort of elitist clique where only the skilled and experienced may speak; and A PIClist member publicly posting another's private comments (no matter how reprehensible) to the list without permission. Both individuals should step back and take a good, hard look at what's going on here. This whole topic has escalated far beyond anything reasonable, and really needs to stop. Now. I am embarrassed by the volume of pointless name-calling and bickering over the past week. It almost seems there is a movement to make the original, admittedly somewhat abrasive email pale in comparison. I'm sure I speak for the majority of the list when I say I'm thoroughly sick and tired of seeing the bickering and insults aired here. People, if you have an issue to take up with another list member and you simply *cannot* survive without duking it out via email, take it up OFF LIST. If you can't get yourself comfortable with this concept, please feel free to make one last post with a public apology before leaving. Dale -- A train stops at a train station. A bus stops at a bus station. On my desk I have a workstation... -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

>>> RemoveMEdaleKILLspamBOTKIN.ORG 06/26/01 11:57AM >>> >>It is with sadness an dismay that I have today seen two things that should >>NEVER have happened: <<klip>> >>A PIClist member publicly posting another's private comments (no matter >>how reprehensible) to the list without permission. <<klip>> >>I'm sure I speak for the majority of the list when I say I'm thoroughly >>sick and tired of seeing the bickering and insults aired here. <<klip>> >>to make one last post with a public apology before leaving. >>Dale Ohmygod! My apologies to Dale and the PICList. Through my ignorance I mistook Douglas' post to the list, as were his others. You're right, private mail, in this case, was inappropriately addressed. Thanks for pointing out my error. I have learned a valuable lesson. Peter Barick, PIC newbie -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

At 07:25 PM 6/27/01 +1200, you wrote: >> Maybe I should use the sig I use on a wargaming BBS: >> >> > I'm confused! Explain to me again how peace and forgiveness will help >me to >> > crush my enemies and make them suffer. >> >> Sherpa Doug > > > >I considered referring you to Romans 12:20 which seems to cover this but > > 1. Dan Michaels would probably get upset with me. > Actually, Russell, I just hate to see James having to get out his Big Bertha Hammer, and start threatening piclisters as a result of what such discussions always turn into. It seems piclisters cannot discuss certain matters without coming to cyberblows. Have you forgotten, again? [and thanks for the ref - 12:20 - I'll certainly look it up]. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics