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'[OT]: What is Windows XP?'
2002\01\18@113010 by Randy Poon

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Hello,

I'm still using Windows 98, although it is serving well all my purposes, I'm
under pressure of upgrading it as Windows 2000 came out. But before I fully
understood what Windows 2000 was, Windows XP was introduced all of a sudden.
What is Windows XP? Is it an upgrade of Windows 2000? As Microsoft keeps having
new versions coming out, I really don't know when the right time is to do an
upgrade, any suggestions?

Randy



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2002\01\18@114438 by Mitch Miller

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On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Randy Poon wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm still using Windows 98, although it is serving well all my purposes, I'm
> under pressure of upgrading it as Windows 2000 came out. But before I fully
> understood what Windows 2000 was, Windows XP was introduced all of a sudden.
> What is Windows XP? Is it an upgrade of Windows 2000?

Windows XP is the most recent version of Microsoft's O/S.  It is the first
O/S which combines the Windows 9x/ME and Windows NT/2000 product lines.
It is an upgrade to both Windows 2000, and Windows ME products.  Windows
XP Home is the upgrade to Windows 98 and ME (you have to purchase full
product to upgrade from '95 ... they don't consider '95 or older OS for
upgrade pricing).  Windows XP Professional is the upgrade for Windows NT
and 2000 Professional.  There is not currently a "server" version of
Windows XP, but it's forthcoming.

>As Microsoft keeps having
> new versions coming out, I really don't know when the right time is to do an
> upgrade, any suggestions?

Yeah ... as I recall, Microsoft has committed to a new OS every 16 months
(or maybe it was 18).  Suggestions?  Yeah, pick what you need and stick
with it as long as it serves your needs.

>
> Randy

Did I answer all your questions?

-- Mitch

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2002\01\18@133922 by M. Adam Davis

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Actually, you can succesfully upgrade from 95 to XP.  (Been there, done
that, got the beta CDs)

-Adam

I think 3.1 is out though...

Mitch Miller wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\01\18@140414 by M. Adam Davis

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WinXP is what MS has been trying to do ever since Windows 95 came out.
They knew that win9x/me were flaky, badly engineered products.  Windows
3.51 (NT), and WINNT 4.0 were designed from scratch for 32bit processors
and are fairly robust, but they lacked much of the ease of use and
compatability with programs that ran on win9x/me.

Win2000 is the next in line after winnt, and still only runs about
60-70% of the apps that work on 9x/me, but had most of the ease of use
and interface design that was available in windows 9x/me.  WinXP is
about 90% or better for compatability with old programs, but is based on
win2k/winnt/etc.  They've also added a lot more restrictions and safety
features as well so users don't have nearly as many problems when the
install bad software as they used to.

So, WinXP is finally the (relatively) stable base we've always wanted
with the interface of win9x/me.

Going forward MS will soon release Windows .NET Server (which is
essentially the server version of winXP), and future versions of windows
XP (and .net server) will be based on the same codebase, but, like
Office, will have different features.  Right now we have WinXP Home and
WinXP Professional.  Soon there will be WinXP embedded.  The only OS MS
produces not off this code base right now is PocketPC - and that's a
good thing.

So, WinXP is a good step from win9x/me.  If you've got win2k and you're
happy with it then stick with it.  I suspect that the next 2-3 OS
releases won't have great improvements over XP in terms of stability,
speed, or interface.  They'll be adding small features and touting them
as important must haves.  Chances are the next big change from MS is an
OS specific to 64 bit processors (which they are still beta testing,
since the hardware isn't really out on the market yet).

The important (in my mind) differences between the home and professional
versions of XP are (I'll list things Pro has that home doesn't)
- Attaching to a domain server (keep your profile, mydocs, etc on the
server so every xp computer looks the same when you log on, and
different for your coworker)
- Giving remote assistance (you can take control of someone else's xp
machine upon their invitation - ostensibly to help them with a problem.
Home version allows you to receive (ask for) assitance, but can't give it)
- Accessing your machine remotely (it has a simple remote access feature
that allows you to securely log into your machine with the full windows
interface from another XP machine, much like what pcanywhere does)

The difference in price is not too big.  You can get the upgrade to home
version for $99 (the usual), and MS recently relaxed the conditions
under which an OEM version can be sold with hardware.  ie, buy an MS
mouse and you can get the full OEM professional version from many
computer places for $169.  Otherwise the prices are as follows:
Home Upgrade $99
Home Full $199
Pro Upgrade $199
Pro Full $299

Which, in my humble (but correct from all points of view) opinion is
grossly overpriced.  Meaning that if I didn't get complimentary licenses
for being on the beta program I wouldn't be running it now, and I'm not
planning on upgrading the office from win98 any time soon.

For what it's worth, my computer has crashed fewer than ten times in the
last 9 months, and it's only shut down when installing hardware or the
rare piece of software that requires a reboot.  I absolutely /love/ that
I can finally change my network settings without a reboot!

-Adam

Randy Poon wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\01\18@141410 by Mitch Miller

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On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, M. Adam Davis wrote:

> Actually, you can succesfully upgrade from 95 to XP.  (Been there, done
> that, got the beta CDs)

Cool ... the retail box I'd seen only mentioned '98 and up, but that's
good to know.  Have you read the license?  Does it specifically mention
95?

-- Mitch

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2002\01\18@142344 by Scott Dattalo

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On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, M. Adam Davis wrote:


> For what it's worth, my computer has crashed fewer than ten times in the
> last 9 months, and it's only shut down when installing hardware or the
> rare piece of software that requires a reboot.  I absolutely /love/ that
> I can finally change my network settings without a reboot!

For what it's worth, exluding hardware related problems, mine has never
crashed. Furthermore, I can't recall having to reboot my computer to
change a configuration or install new software (except to install a new
version of the OS).

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2002\01\18@142401 by M. Adam Davis

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I haven't, and, in fact, MS says it won't work:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/upgrading/matrix.asp

But it did in this case...  Who knows, maybe there was a directory with
the win98 setup files on the computer I did the upgrade on...


-Adam

Mitch Miller wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\01\18@153515 by Herbert Graf

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The "upgrade" version of XP WILL NOT upgrade a win95 machine, only win98 and
above. To upgrade a win95 machine you would need to purchase the full
install (which is twice the price). It's Microsoft's way of punishing you
for staying with an older version of their product. TTYL

> {Original Message removed}

2002\01\18@155706 by Mitch Miller

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<snip>
> > For what it's worth, my computer has crashed fewer than ten times in the
<snip>
> For what it's worth, exluding hardware related problems, mine has never
<snip>

Well, since we're on a roll ... For what it's worth, I _have_ had to
reboot my PC at least twice in the last week, just since upgrading
(complete reload from scratch) from Windows NT.  It seems that my laptop
suddenly quits recognizing CTRL-ESC (one keyboard way of activating the
start menu ... nope, the Windows key doesn't work, either), and when I
click on an app. in the task bar, it does not come to the top ... the
task bar icon just begins blinking orange.  While it does respond to
CTRL-ALT-DEL (while logged in), I have to first click on the dialog in
order to be able to hit ENTER to lock the screen (should be able to just
press CTRL-ALT-DEL, ENTER with no mouse intervention).

Other than that ... only had to reboot when changing the PC's name, and
again after joining our domain.

<g>

-- Mitch

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2002\01\18@155724 by Lawrence Lile

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Soon Microsoft has announced they will be issuing WinPIC, a windows-based
operating system for the PIC series of processors.  The minimum hardware
requirements will be a PIC18Fxx series processor, and once the operating
system is loaded the chip will be able to blink an LED, both ON and OFF,
using the leftover resources.  They have claimed that the uptime with WinPIC
will be well over 60%, with a MTBF of almost 600 machine cycles.   You saw
it first here on the PIClist.


--Lawrence

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2002\01\18@161127 by Mitch Miller

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On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, M. Adam Davis wrote:

> I haven't, and, in fact, MS says it won't work:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/upgrading/matrix.asp
>
> But it did in this case...
<snip>

Hahahahaha ... leave it to M$

-- Mitch

P.S.  For what it is worth (yeah, another testimonial! <g>) ... my Linux
box has only been rebooted because I removed some hardware!

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2002\01\18@162215 by Claudio Tagliola

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And now, for something completely different:

I got my first fatal blue screen three days after my first ever install
of XP; I lose my tray icons on a regular basis, probably by a restart
from explorer; got some core dumps now and then; had one clean
installation completely trashed which forced me to install everything
all over again; masses of IE crashes and - new in XP - an error report
dialog. Yay...

But hey, it's slightly better as with Win2k, WinNT4 and way better as
with WinME/98.

Claudio

{Original Message removed}

2002\01\18@164900 by Dale Botkin

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On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Scott Dattalo wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, M. Adam Davis wrote:
>
>
> > For what it's worth, my computer has crashed fewer than ten times in the
> > last 9 months, and it's only shut down when installing hardware or the
> > rare piece of software that requires a reboot.  I absolutely /love/ that
> > I can finally change my network settings without a reboot!
>
> For what it's worth, exluding hardware related problems, mine has never
> crashed. Furthermore, I can't recall having to reboot my computer to
> change a configuration or install new software (except to install a new
> version of the OS).

Wow, me too.  Well, that applies to my Linux machine, anyway.  The Windows
systems are petty much crash-O-matics.  The Solaris boxes are too new to
tell but so far so good.

Dale
(Now, if I could just figure out how to install a new kernel without
rbooting...  )

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2002\01\18@165147 by Dale Botkin

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On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Herbert Graf wrote:

> The "upgrade" version of XP WILL NOT upgrade a win95 machine, only win98 and
> above. To upgrade a win95 machine you would need to purchase the full
> install (which is twice the price). It's Microsoft's way of punishing you
> for staying with an older version of their product. TTYL

They just figure you owe them X amount of money per year, so if you skip
an upgrade they just get the money then.  It's kind of a subscription
thing, they just don't call it that.

Yet.

Dale

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2002\01\18@165842 by Herbert Graf

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Hehe, I've got a Linux machine acting as a router on my network and the only
time I have to reboot it is when power goes out! So far my uptime is:

08:36:55 up 125 Days (3006h)

I guess that's how long it's been since my last power outage! :) TTYL

> {Original Message removed}

2002\01\18@165855 by M. Adam Davis

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Some ad-ware programs are known to crash the explorer interface (ie,
losing tray icons).  Make sure you have the latest XP compatible drivers
for your hardware, especially graphics cards.

Other than that, I'd suggest you do a clean install and only install
programs you use regularily, avoid installing ad-ware programs.

Upgrades from earlier windows... Ugh!  All you're doing is taking the
same trash and putting it in a new bag...

-Adam

Claudio Tagliola wrote:

{Quote hidden}

>{Original Message removed}

2002\01\18@170709 by Dale Botkin

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On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Herbert Graf wrote:

> Hehe, I've got a Linux machine acting as a router on my network and the only
> time I have to reboot it is when power goes out! So far my uptime is:
>
> 08:36:55 up 125 Days (3006h)
>
> I guess that's how long it's been since my last power outage! :) TTYL

Had mine up to 300+ at the old house...  it was on a UPS.  It's my router,
firewall, SMTP, DNS, Web, POP3, SQL and everything else server, as well as
where I do some code testing.  Right now it's 80 days and counting.

Dale

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2002\01\18@174021 by Martin Peach

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Botkin" <spam_OUTdaleTakeThisOuTspamBOTKIN.ORG>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [OT]: What is Windows XP?


> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Herbert Graf wrote:
>
> > The "upgrade" version of XP WILL NOT upgrade a win95 machine, only win98
and
> > above. To upgrade a win95 machine you would need to purchase the full
> > install (which is twice the price). It's Microsoft's way of punishing
you
> > for staying with an older version of their product. TTYL
>
> They just figure you owe them X amount of money per year, so if you skip
> an upgrade they just get the money then.  It's kind of a subscription
> thing, they just don't call it that.

Yeah but the really cool thing is the more their OS is broken, the more
money they make! Imagine if it worked perfectly, they could only ever sell
you one. The serious capitalist will always put bugs in their software. That
way you get all kinds of extra cash for technical support and upgrades! #-)

/\/\/\/*=Martin

{Quote hidden}

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2002\01\18@174053 by Tim McDonough

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Scott Dattalo wrote...

> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, M. Adam Davis wrote:
>
>
> > For what it's worth, my computer has crashed fewer than ten times
in the
> > last 9 months, and it's only shut down when installing hardware or
the
> > rare piece of software that requires a reboot.  I absolutely
/love/ that
> > I can finally change my network settings without a reboot!
>
> For what it's worth, exluding hardware related problems, mine has
never
> crashed. Furthermore, I can't recall having to reboot my computer to
> change a configuration or install new software (except to install a
new
> version of the OS).

Have you experienced any compatibility issues with applications and in
specific development tools like MPLAB, compilers, programmers, etc. Do
things that Active X controls that talk to serial and printer ports
generally seem to work okay?

Tim

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2002\01\18@174524 by David VanHorn

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At 04:05 PM 1/18/02 -0600, Dale Botkin wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Herbert Graf wrote:
>
> > Hehe, I've got a Linux machine acting as a router on my network and the
> only
> > time I have to reboot it is when power goes out! So far my uptime is:
> >
> > 08:36:55 up 125 Days (3006h)
> >
> > I guess that's how long it's been since my last power outage! :) TTYL
>
>Had mine up to 300+ at the old house...  it was on a UPS.  It's my router,
>firewall, SMTP, DNS, Web, POP3, SQL and everything else server, as well as
>where I do some code testing.  Right now it's 80 days and counting.

The dvanhorn.org server went to a year and a half before a lion worm got
it.  My fault, i thought I had applied that patch, but I hadn't.  It
auto-updates now.

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2002\01\18@174814 by Tim McDonough

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> They just figure you owe them X amount of money per year, so if you
skip
> an upgrade they just get the money then.  It's kind of a
subscription
> thing, they just don't call it that.

The thing I really dislike about the upgrades, at  least the old ones,
is if the drive in your upgraded system dies. I used to regularly
upgrade and then a few Winxx versions ago my disk died. I ended up
having to install my original "full version" OS and then run through
the upgrade CD's. Of course then I had to download the online updates
but that's another story.

Ever since I've grit my teeth and bought the full versions.

Tim

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2002\01\18@183033 by John Ferrell

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As soon as I can migrate off this machine, Format/fdisk/reload, & migrate
back I will have a machine available to give Linux. It may take 30 to 60
days.
The questions:

Where do I start? What version/flavor do I get and where should I get it?
How much machine is needed? memory/speed/disk?
What are the trade offs?

I am asking here because I think a PIC list answer will be more accurate
than on a Linux group!

John Ferrell
6241 Phillippi Rd
Julian NC 27283
Phone: (336)685-9606
Dixie Competition Products
NSRCA 479 AMA 4190  W8CCW
"My Competition is Not My Enemy"



{Original Message removed}

2002\01\18@205859 by Scott Dattalo

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On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Tim McDonough wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Yeah, unfortunately. I can't get MPLAB to even run on my computer. I've
gotten through the install a few times, but it hangs as soon as try to do
something. I haven't tried it recently so maybe things have improved. My
serial port and parallel port work just fine. I even can use PicStart+
without a hitch. X works just fine too!

Scott

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2002\01\18@215941 by Paul Hutchinson

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> Where do I start? What version/flavor do I get and where should I get it?

I've heard many people say they think Mandrake is the easiest distribution
to install for a first time user. AFAIK, Mandrake is a repackaged version of
RedHats' distribution with ease of use enhancements.

I like RedHat's distributions. I usually buy it direct from them so that
RedHat gets the maximum amount of cash (cut out the middle man). You can of
course download it all for free. However, I find the printed documentation
and having the nice set of CD's well worth the price. Plus you get some
limited tech support that I've heard is good, although I've never used it.
Since you're in NC you'd also be supporting people in your state (RedHat is
in Durham).

> How much machine is needed? memory/speed/disk?
> What are the trade offs?

Depends on what you want to do, assuming you want the whole Xwindows GUI
experience, at a minimum you'll need hardware similar to what you would use
for Windows. Definitely check all the hardware compatibility lists to make
sure your target hardware is supported. Regardless of which distro you
choose, the RedHat web site is a good starting place for checking hardware
compatibility. I've had the most trouble with newer peripherals and ones
that are built into motherboards (video, sound, modem, NIC, etc.).

Paul

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2002\01\19@074823 by codefreeze 0

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>From: Paul Hutchinson <phutchinsonspamKILLspamIMTRA.COM>
>Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>To: EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [OT]: What is Windows XP?
>Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:56:21 -0500
>
> > Where do I start? What version/flavor do I get and where should I get
>it?
>


I've tried RedHat 4, 5 and Mandake 7.1. Mandrake has a more user friendly
interface during installation. But a more important question you should ask
yourself is what are you doing to use it for?

Browse around book shops, find magazines or Linux books that contain the CD.

I have some links where you can start off:
http://www.geocities.com/donnytth/linux/linux.html



regards,
Donny Tan


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2002\01\21@033443 by D Lloyd

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Hi,

"I'm still using Windows 98, although it is serving well all my purposes,
I'm
under pressure of upgrading it as Windows 2000 came out. But before I fully
understood what Windows 2000 was, Windows XP was introduced all of a
sudden.
What is Windows XP? Is it an upgrade of Windows 2000? As Microsoft keeps
having
new versions coming out, I really don't know when the right time is to do
an
upgrade, any suggestions?""

Windows XP is more than worth the upgrade. After being annoyed by Win9x for
many years, I was going to migrate to Linux but XP is what I expected Linux
to be in terms of stability plus I can run the software *I want to run* on
the XP platform. The only thing that worries me slightly about it is the
remote access/raw sockets; these elements are not part Win2K and so may
have vunerabilities.
I have never had a blue screen/restart under XP and it has been running
almost continuously for several weeks now - I would have expected Win9x to
have gone belly up many times in that time scale. I am running Win2K (what
XP is build on) at work for months and have had to restart the machine once
but that was to do with Adaptec DirectCD....which everyones knows is a bit
dodgy.
M$ still get on my nerves but they have a good product in XP, it would
appear (so far).

Regards,
Dan

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