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'[OT]: Third world war possiblity?'
2001\09\12@190654 by Saurabh Sinha

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What are your speculations, if other countries (or Binden) was involved?

Regards,

S. Sinha (Saurabh)
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2001\09\12@203307 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 01:07 AM 9/13/01 +0200, you wrote:
>What are your speculations, if other countries (or Binden) was involved?

Bin Laden and his cohorts and followers (an Egyptian man is apparently even
more involved than Bin Laden) have friends in Pakistan (a nuclear power,
the West's erstwhile ally while India was a Russian ally),
Afghanistan (where he helped defeat the Russians, alongside the Mujhadeen,
again our erstwhile allies, who we armed) and the Sudan. I believe he
helped to de-stabilize the Russian-controlled puppet state (from Pakistan)
which led to the Russian invasion (read "Soviet" for Russian if you prefer)
in 1979. He is a great hero to many young Arabs, and is considered a
freedom-fighter, not a terrorist. The term "asymmetrical warfare" has been
used recently to describe the kind of guerilla tactics used by his kind
against much more powerful forces. From the perspective of many Arabs,
US citizens support (through taxes and by not stopping them) the US
policies that negatively affect them, and are thus legitimate targets.
He is fairly wealthy, though there are hundreds of Americans who are more
wealthy, through his family's construction business in Saudi. He and
his group are apparently also supporting the anti-Russian rebels
in Chechnya. Somehow he has managed to maintain control of his money,
including contributions from the Saudi royal family, even while
living with his four wives in a cave in rugged Afghanistan. He was
not always like this, he used to hang out with Westerners and was
reputed to be a womanizer in cosmopolitan Beirut. Then he "got religion"
and the final straw turning him against America was the Gulf war, where
the Saudis supported the US & the alliance. He has also allied himself
with Saddam from about '97.

So much for the other side. If he and his followers are to blame, in
order to efficiently "neutralize" him (kill most of his followers and
bring him to trial and public disgrace) will probably require a major
military operation in difficult terrain. It may take months or years,
and probably thousands of casualties. His people have defeated the
Russian military, not exactly a small accomplishment. If Pakistan is
involved, there is a chance of a local nuclear confrontation (though I
doubt it would actually happen). At worst I see a local conflict involving
several local countries (hopefully moderate Middle-east countries would either
help the US/allies or at least stand aside). If one of the more populous
states such as Iran became involved, the cost would probably exceed what
the Western countries were prepared to pay. I don't see all-out war of
the Arab and Muslim countries against the Christians and Israel, but that
may be what BL and his people are hoping for. There are elements in Pakistan
that have been trying to destabilize things at the edges of Europe.. a
young fellow in a town in Albania (Gyrocaster) told me that he went on
a computer course in Pakistan and most of the instruction was to try to
start a war with the Christians. (they are theoretically Islamic in
Albania, mostly, but the state was atheist for a couple of generations).

Assuming (as now seems likely) that it was the movement BL is involved in,
I speculate that the clever military men in the US will forge an alliance
with the NATO countries (obligated to support each other in case of an act
of war) and probably Russia in one form or another, and some of the Muslim
countries to go in and clean out the problem in Afghanistan. These are not
good people, the destruction of the huge stone 500 year old Buddhas a month
or two ago was an act of religious intolerance and vandalism that betrays
their
intentions. There is nothing, as I undertand it, in Islam that is much
different from Christianity or Judaeism- these folks are just extremists.

They may not be able to guarantee to get rid of BL himself, so
you may hear more in the news about the movement, and the training camps,
which can predictably be destroyed. It will be difficult, like destroying Mao
in the countryside of Yunnan, because the locals are with him and will provide
what he needs to survive. Still, I think it could be successful. I
suspect the Taleban would be told to stay out of the way or suffer the
consequences. The Russians may want to be more "involved", it's much
closer to home and many of their people have died as a result of the
problems in Chechnya. Worst-case, we have a local conflict,
probably non-nuclear, and probably involving a few hundred thousand
troops. Absolute worst case, it involves the more populous Arab
countries or Iran on the other side, Israel is attacked and nuclear weapons
have to be used (or we admit defeat). I don't think lobbing 50 or 100 cruise
missiles at Afghanistan will do it, it probably would have to involve
troops on the ground. The problems (other than the economic consequences)
would likely be confined to the local area in any case, at least for
the short term. I predict a victory in the short term, with problems
continuing indefinitely. These b*stards would probably like a wider conflict,
our job is to get rid of him without causing such a thing to happen. The
other wannabe superpower (China) has supplied some arms to these countries
(eg. Silkworm missiles) but nothing on the scale of the USA. I suspect they
would stay off to the side, they have their own problems with Muslim
minorities in Western China, and need the West so they can continue to
prosper.

I don't think we'll see terrorism on the scale we saw yesterday for a long,
long time.

Best regards,










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2001\09\12@210501 by hard Prosser

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An essay that may be of interest to those following this tread :-

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/5439/2007.html

There are also others by the same author on a similar theme.

Richard P

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2001\09\12@212152 by Jinx

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According to believers of Nostradamus (1654)

"In the City Of God there will be a great thunder, two brothers
torn apart by chaos. While the fortress endures, the great
leader will succumb. The third big war will begin when the
big city is burning"

You could fit many scenarios to this description, both post-
and pre-event, same as most of his quatraines. Gotta admire
the guy for getting it on paper though

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2001\09\12@212834 by Jinx

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> "In the City Of God there will be a great thunder, two brothers
> torn apart by chaos. While the fortress endures, the great
> leader will succumb. The third big war will begin when the
> big city is burning"

Meant to add my interpretation

City Of God    God = Mammon ? Wall St ? Manhattan trade centre ?
thunder, two brothers   WTC 1 & 2
fortress endures   failure to hit the Capitol or White House ?
great leader   not Dubya surely ?
big city   another attack on the US ? Another country ? By
whom ?Jerusalem ?

Don't know Nostradamus' leanings so can't say what he
regarded as "big" or "great" or important enough to mention

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2001\09\12@213846 by Jim

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  "In the City Of God"

Give me some hints on this one, Jinx, I'm dense on
this one ... or the category is a little broad (Jerusalem
comes to mind - is that too simple?)


  "there will be a great thunder,"

Bomb blast (or blasts). I understand this. Must
have been cannon thunder in 1654? Could it have
meant real thunder?


  "two brothers torn apart by chaos."

Takes two to fight: Brother-sister. Husband-wife.
No surprise here, just brother-brother on this
occasion.


  "While the fortress endures,"

What - just a skirmish in the family? A little
bickering maybe? Then their father stepped in?


  "the great leader will succumb."

Dad was involved in the fighting and lost?

 "The third big war"

When does the count start?
War of Independence? Civil War? WWI, WWII? What?

    "will begin when the big city is burning"

Like the country-side will burn?

Help me out on all this Jinx as I am dense ...

Jim



{Original Message removed}

2001\09\12@214718 by M. Adam Davis

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I hope people stop forwarding this nonsense.

This was created by a student (I believe in canada?) awhile ago as a
paper on phraseology, and how one can apply one phrase to thousands of
situation.  This phrase was created by the student as the one example in
the text where he made one up, where the rest were from Nostradamus.

It, however, has been twisted from its original form of:
  In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
  Two brothers torn apart by Chaos,
  while the fortress endures,
  the great leader will succumb

www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm
is the location of the paper.

-Adam

Jinx wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\09\12@214924 by Jinx

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> Help me out on all this Jinx as I am dense ...
>
> Jim

Aw, bet you aren't ;-)  I should say I do not believe in
Nostradamus as an accurate seer. He wrote so many
quatraines you can pick one to suit any ocassion, same
as you can read all the papers' horoscopes until you find
one you like

Just thought I'd post it as a curio

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2001\09\12@215241 by Arnold Chord

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If to third world countries want to duke it out then by all means they
should have out blessings.
If afterward they grovel for our help then they should respect that they
wlll have to put up with our policy.
If they don't then deal.

{Original Message removed}

2001\09\12@215601 by Arnold Chord

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I am not much on world politics but what does China think on all of this.
It does appear to be near thier backyard?

{Original Message removed}

2001\09\12@221549 by Jinx

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> I hope people stop forwarding this nonsense.
> www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm
> is the location of the paper.
>
> -Adam

I agree entirely with that page and will make sure I refer others
to it. I'm almost tempted to say "spooky" that Neill Marshall (if
he wrote his own page) is equally as prophetic as Nostradamus
but it's obvious that we all can be, if we write enough. As it goes
"a thousand monkeys at a thousand typewriters........". Even if
Nostredamus WAS correct, who did it help ?

Thanks for pointing that out Adam, I didn't want to be a
disseminator of BS

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2001\09\12@233549 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 06:43 PM 9/12/01 -0700, you wrote:
>I am not much on world politics but what does China think on all of this.
>It does appear to be near thier backyard?

Here's the very first official reaction from yesterday, requesting
restraint (for the moment):

Senior Chinese military expert cautions restraint in reaction to US attacks
(09/12/2001) (Agencies)
A senior Chinese military strategist on Wednesday said no governments
should "react in a rash manner" to the devastating wave of terrorist
attacks across the United States.
Major General Zhang Qinsheng, head of the faculty of operational tactics at
the National Defence University, said the motives for the attacks in New
York, Washington and elsewhere should be discovered first.
"There is still some time, the reason has not been determined yet," he told
reporters on the sidelines of an international relations forum in Beijing.
"No government should react in a rash manner and any government should, in
its actions, comply with the mainstream of the development of mankind," he
added, without elaborating.
US President George W. Bush vowed following the attacks that his country
would seek out and punish those deemed responsible for the terror wreaked
on the World Trade Centre and Pentagon.
Zhang reiterated Chinese horror at the attacks, which seem almost certain
to have killed thousands of people.
"We were shocked when we heard about the news that this could happen in an
era of peace and development, this kind of terrorist act. On this point the
United States and China hold common views," he said.

More today at: www1.chinadaily.com.cn/news/2001-09-14/32904.html
They pledge to join with the US to fight terrorism

China has its own problems with Muslim seperatists, fundamentalists and
terrorism in the Western
provinces such as Xinjiang, which borders Pakistan, as you say, in their
backyard.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_768000/768815.stm

They may or may not be active supporters of a move to clean up this
problem, but I certainly don't expect
them to kick up a fuss or get in the way.

Best regards.

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2001\09\13@014815 by Dan Michaels

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Jinx wrote:
>> "In the City Of God there will be a great thunder, two brothers
>> torn apart by chaos. While the fortress endures, the great
>> leader will succumb. The third big war will begin when the
>> big city is burning"
>
>Meant to add my interpretation
>
>City Of God    God = Mammon ? Wall St ? Manhattan trade centre ?
>thunder, two brothers   WTC 1 & 2
>fortress endures   failure to hit the Capitol or White House ?
>great leader   not Dubya surely ?
>big city   another attack on the US ? Another country ? By
>whom ?Jerusalem ?
>
>Don't know Nostradamus' leanings so can't say what he
>regarded as "big" or "great" or important enough to mention
>


Jinx, no one would ever mistake NYC for the City of God.
There is certainly no great leader in the world today
[the only person even resembling a leader in the past 2
days has been Rudy Juliani, mayor of NYC - otherwise, no
leadership at all, just reaction]. The big city is burning,
however.

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2001\09\13@021107 by Stephen Holland

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It does house the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ, so if money is your
religion, New York would be the home of God...

> {Original Message removed}

2001\09\13@022125 by Jinx

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> Jinx, no one would ever mistake NYC for the City of God.

No, that's why I suggested the great god was money

But as we now know, the "Nostradamus" verse is bogus
anyway

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2001\09\13@104753 by dale

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> > Jinx, no one would ever mistake NYC for the City of God.
>
> No, that's why I suggested the great god was money

I don't get this.  I've met a lot of people to whom money is an important thing, some to a higher degree than others, but I don't think I have ever met anyone who worships money or thinks it's the most important thing.  We hear a lot about that, but in reality you'd be very hard pressed, I think, to find many people who feel that way.  Exceptions?  Sure, but there are snake-handlers and people who think their dogs talk to them and people who would crash airliners into office buildings, too.  The world's got some disturbed individuals in it, obviously.  But to suggest that any substantial number of people (especially in the US) worship money is completely wrong.

> But as we now know, the "Nostradamus" verse is bogus
> anyway

Even the "real" ones are, for that matter.  I've seen more productive output from horses.

Dale
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2001\09\13@112901 by jamesnewton

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The only problem is, as history should teach us, that once they get stupid
enough to try to kill each other, they pick up the habit of killing for
gain... and then if one side or the other gets far enough ahead, they will
decide to pick on the next biggest country, and so on...

Jack London wrote a really good story about tree dwelling proto-humans and
their (lack of) response when marauding bands of ground dwelling
proto-humans attacked and plundered each neighboring tree in turn.

The isolationist doctrine didn't work. We had two world wars (where the US
was attacked) to teach us this lesson.

Korea, Viet Nam and the Gulf were not pretty (as this is not) but North
Korea, North Viet Nam and Iraq did not profit, form strong alliances with
other aggressive nations and end up attacking the US as did Germany and
Japan in the WW's. Sadly, we didn't finish the job in Iraq (taking a "good
enough" attitude from 'Nam?) and as a result of that and the value of their
oil, they have been able, perhaps, to "push back."

The best job we did was against Kaddafi (sp?). One strike, few civilian
deaths, the nations people are not as mad at us as they are at their
leadership and Moo Mar is effectively hog tied.

In the Gulf, we pissed off, killed, starved, isolated, etc.. the entire
populous and failed to take the wind out of Hussains sails (in fact, we
bolstered his support, when most of his people were happy to surrender and
just wanted to live a good life)

Other peoples love their children too... and if you don't beat them within
an inch of death, occupy the country, remove the leader, THEN REBUILD THE
COUNTRY FOR THE PEOPLE or just remove the leader and demonstrate that you
COULD have beat the people half to death, then they will hate you forever.
And be willing to die to hurt you.

The more I think about it, the more I think that we lost the world trade
center because we were not responsible enough to do the right thing in Iraq.
If there will be no WWIII it will be because we do the right thing now.
Killing civilians (unless you later care for the survivors) or allowing /
helping others to kill civilians is how you loose the game.

No?

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2001\09\13@153057 by Dan Michaels

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Dale Botkin wrote:
>> > Jinx, no one would ever mistake NYC for the City of God.
>>
>> No, that's why I suggested the great god was money
>
>I don't get this.  I've met a lot of people to whom money is an important
thing, some to a higher degree than others, but I don't think I have ever
met anyone who worships money or thinks it's the most important thing.
..........


Jinx was clearly referring to

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the
other;
or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and
mammon" - Matthew 6:23-25
==================

.........
>And what exactly would you say America doesn't "have a right" to do?
Protect its own interests? >Invest money in its own businesses, and those in
other countries?  Send millions of tons of >food to impoverished regions?
Loan money by the billions to other countries, knowing it will >never be
repaid?  Send missionaries, doctors, engineers and laborers to third world
countries?  >Try to stem the flow of cocaine from Afghanistan and Central
America?  How much of that sort of >thing does Britain do, I wonder?
.........


All well and good ... but what you need to ask to why these people hate
the way they do, not why america is so good. That is what is important.
Each of us needs to do our own research on this question.

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2001\09\13@162110 by Dal Wheeler

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> All well and good ... but what you need to ask to why these people hate
> the way they do, not why america is so good. That is what is important.
> Each of us needs to do our own research on this question.

Exactly how will that deter the effectiveness of terrorism?  I personally
don't feel like doing much research other than to find the SOB's
responsible.  Understanding will have to wait;  terrorism must be crushed
now.  This can't continue to be an effective means of "getting your cause
known."  Despite whatever those in UK or South America may espouse, NO
nation is safe in the kind of world where this is recognized as acceptable
behavior.  If the wronged have issues they can go through world courts like
civilized nations do.  If they're too impatient for that, we can be equally
impatient.

It really pisses me off that some non-US citizens on this list can stand
back, pretending to have some kind of superior objectivity, while dryly
suggest that we brought this on ourselves given our history of saving these
same nations time and again in similar circumstances.

-Dal

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2001\09\13@182837 by Jinx

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> Jinx was clearly referring to
>
> "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the
> one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and
> despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon" -
> Matthew 6:23-25

OK, now I'll say "spooky"

http://dailynews.philly.com/content/daily_news/2001/09/13/local/DEVI13C.htm

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2001\09\13@185150 by hard Prosser

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To me it looks more like a certain Muslim fundamentalist - but just as
spooky !

Richard P



> Jinx was clearly referring to
>
> "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the
> one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and
> despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon" -
> Matthew 6:23-25

OK, now I'll say "spooky"

http://dailynews.philly.com/content/daily_news/2001/09/13/local/DEVI13C.htm

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2001\09\13@191540 by Jinx

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> To me it looks more like a certain Muslim fundamentalist - but
> just as spooky !
>
> Richard P

It does too y'know

A billion particles in a billion air currents - what are the odds ?

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2001\09\13@193229 by Dan Michaels

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Dal Wheeler wrote:
>> All well and good ... but what you need to ask to why these people hate
>> the way they do, not why america is so good. That is what is important.
>> Each of us needs to do our own research on this question.
>
>Exactly how will that deter the effectiveness of terrorism?  I personally
>don't feel like doing much research other than to find the SOB's
>responsible.  Understanding will have to wait;  terrorism must be crushed
>now.
............
>It really pisses me off that some non-US citizens on this list can stand
>back, pretending to have some kind of superior objectivity, while dryly
>suggest that we brought this on ourselves given our history of saving these
>same nations time and again in similar circumstances.


Dal,

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

Shall I say it again?

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2001\09\13@195303 by dal wheeler

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On 13 Sep 2001 19:32:29 -0400, Dan Michaels wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I agree.  Terrorism should not be repeated.  How does one encourage that
line of thought?

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2001\09\13@195317 by Dan Michaels

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At 11:17 AM 9/14/01 +1200, you wrote:
>> To me it looks more like a certain Muslim fundamentalist - but
>> just as spooky !
>>
>> Richard P
>
>It does too y'know
>
>A billion particles in a billion air currents - what are the odds ?
>

How long did it last for?

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2001\09\13@195757 by hard Prosser

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History teaches us that we do not learn from history!

Richard P







Dal,

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

Shall I say it again?

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2001\09\13@201347 by Jinx

face picon face
> How long did it last for?

What am I ? Smoke monitor ? ;-)

Sorry, haven't seen the angle of that photo on video. The smoke
was fair billowing, probably just a flukey pic

http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/joecolquitt/wtccloud.html

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2001\09\13@232500 by Dan Michaels

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QED


At 11:55 AM 9/14/01 +1200, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\09\14@012158 by Nick Taylor

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Dal Wheeler wrote:
>
[snip]
> It really pisses me off that some non-US citizens on this list can stand
> back, pretending to have some kind of superior objectivity, while dryly
> suggest that we brought this on ourselves given our history of saving these
> same nations time and again in similar circumstances.

Dal ... it may very well piss you off, but often times it's the "outsider"
that is able to take a more objective view of things.  At this point in
time many (most?) Americans are still to hurt and angry to be able to
think rationally about the causes and responses to this unthinkable
terrorist attack.

  -Nick T.

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2001\09\14@015310 by Sean H. Breheny

face picon face
For all those who feel that the U.S. should not punish innocent people for
the attack, and that we should make darn sure we know who did it before we
take any action, please consider signing the following petition:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/224622495

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2001\09\14@041337 by Phil

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Signing this petition only gives aid and comfort to the enemy.
We are already at war - they just declared it on the 11th.
Giving aid and comfort to the enemy is a act of treason during
a state of war and we are in a state of war.  So you catch whoever
did this and punish that person or group, they will only be replaced by
5 to 10 times as many terrorist, so on and so forth, and many, many
more people will die.  If the innocent people in countries that help these
terrorist don't want to be distroyed them they must rise up against their
governments and replace them - otherwise they all must be distroyed.
As long as you keep turning your cheek to the terrorist bully you'll keep
getting you head knocked off.

Phil


{Original Message removed}

2001\09\14@050639 by Heinz Czychun

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Hi Jinx,

       Firstly, my sympathy and condolence to those who lost
relatives and acquaintances in the terrorist attacks. Thank goodness,
it seems now, that the evacuation was quite effective and 90% of the
people in the towers escaped.


At 12:10 PM +1200 9/14/01, Jinx wrote:
>  > How long did it last for?
>
>What am I ? Smoke monitor ? ;-)
>
>Sorry, haven't seen the angle of that photo on video. The smoke
>was fair billowing, probably just a flukey pic
>
>http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/joecolquitt/wtccloud.html

       I had a look at your radar image.

       Now, if a face appeared in this image, that would be spooky.

Doo doo doo doo.....[twilight zone theme]


Heinz

PS Although, good intentioned and a show of solidarity, does anyone
else find the recent NATO mutual defence clause too reminiscent of
pre-WWI? The only thing missing is a similar sized opponent.

The US has a big stick I hope they tread lightly, while bringing the
culprits to justice.

>

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2001\09\14@085801 by Eisermann, Phil [Ridg/CO]

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"Phil" wrote:

> So you catch whoever
> did this and punish that person or group, they will only be
> replaced by
> 5 to 10 times as many terrorist, so on and so forth, and many, many
> more people will die.  If the innocent people in countries
> that help these
> terrorist don't want to be distroyed them they must rise up
> against their
> governments and replace them - otherwise they all must be distroyed.
> As long as you keep turning your cheek to the terrorist bully
> you'll keep
> getting you head knocked off.
>

       Now turn it around and look at it from the terrorists point of view:
they think our government is evil incarnate, the "Great Satan" They believe
those innocents deserved what they got by backing the government, and by not
deposing that government. So, if your argument is correct, then the
terrorists were justified in their action.

       That's a rather scary thought. I want the individuals responsible
punished as much as anyone. But i'd rather not see us stoop to their level
and kill innocents in the process. Those responsible should pay the price,
not innocent civilians that had nothing to do with the attack. That will
only give the next generation of terrorists that much more reason to repeat
the cycle of violence. I would give my life to protect our nation, but I
won't lift a finger to help impose our view of the world on others.

       I know i haven't changed your mind, and I've been added to your list
of idiots. But that's one of the great things about this country; we are
free to disagree.

-the other Phil

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2001\09\14@092636 by John Pfaff

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The main difference between McVeigh and Bin Laden is that Bin Laden and
his followers are STATE-SPONSORED!  That is what dictates action against
ANY country that sponsors terrorism and/or harbors terrorists (Libya,
Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, ...).



The only thing we learn from history is that we do not learn.
               -- Earl Warren

That men do not learn very much from history is the most important of
all
the lessons that history has to teach.
               -- Aldous Huxley

We learn from history that we do not learn from history.
               -- Georg Hegel

HISTORY:  Papa Hegel he say that all we learn from history is that we
learn
nothing from history.  I know people who can't even learn from what
happened
this morning.  Hegel must have been taking the long view.
               -- Chad C. Mulligan, "The Hipcrime Vocab"


Richard Prosser wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\09\14@093553 by Jeff DeMaagd

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----- Original Message -----
From: Eisermann, Phil [Ridg/CO] <@spam@peisermaRemoveMEspamEraseMERIDGID.COM>

>         That's a rather scary thought. I want the individuals
responsible
> punished as much as anyone. But i'd rather not see us stoop to their
level
> and kill innocents in the process. Those responsible should pay the
price,
> not innocent civilians that had nothing to do with the attack. That
will
> only give the next generation of terrorists that much more reason to
repeat
> the cycle of violence. I would give my life to protect our nation, but
I
> won't lift a finger to help impose our view of the world on others.
>
>         I know i haven't changed your mind, and I've been added to
your list
> of idiots. But that's one of the great things about this country; we
are
> free to disagree.

I haven't followed every post in the thread, but FWIW, I agree with you.

Although it may be deemed neccessary in the cases used, any and all
military involvement in the mid-east will only be propagandized in the
absolutely worst light possible.  I wouldn't be surprised that the uture
propaganda suggest that all the evidence that may be brought forth for
the world to see was fabricated.  It is seriously that bad.

War always hurts those not involved.  Count on it.

Jeff
http://demaagd.com/anime/dvdbugs/

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2001\09\14@123615 by Jim

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face
I thought NASDAQ was de-centralized (there is
no NASDAQ trading floor!), in fact I'm sure
of it!

NASDAQ - National Association of Securities Dealers
        Automated Quotation System.


In fact, I know that a numer of the "ECNs" (like
DATEK) are located in Manhattan-west (New Jersey) ...

Jim


{Original Message removed}

2001\09\14@123629 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 04:11 AM 9/14/01 -0400, you wrote:

>        I had a look at your radar image.

>        Now, if a face appeared in this image, that would be spooky.
>
>Doo doo doo doo.....[twilight zone theme]

Like this one? staff.tribalwar.com/rayn/images/wtfisthat.jpg
(look for it on the cover of tabloids)

>
>PS Although, good intentioned and a show of solidarity, does anyone
>else find the recent NATO mutual defence clause too reminiscent of
>pre-WWI? The only thing missing is a similar sized opponent.

The mutual defence clause has been in effect for 53 years, it's just
the first time it has been used. The intention was to protect Europe
from the Soviet threat, but now it will be used to help protect the
USofA, which seems more than fair. I think it is very prudent to form
as large and broad (ethnic and religious) a coalition as practical.

>The US has a big stick I hope they tread lightly, while bringing the
>culprits to justice.

There's no reason to suspect that they'll do anything else, the
understandable emotions notwithstanding.

Best regards,


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2001\09\14@132407 by Pfaff, John

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Apparently the picture has been removed.  Do you have a copy of it (or
at least a good link)?

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\09\14@135822 by Bob Barr

picon face
Jim wrote:
>
>I thought NASDAQ was de-centralized (there is
>no NASDAQ trading floor!), in fact I'm sure
>of it!
>
>NASDAQ - National Association of Securities Dealers
>          Automated Quotation System.
>
>
>In fact, I know that a numer of the "ECNs" (like
>DATEK) are located in Manhattan-west (New Jersey) ...
>

You're right, NASDAQ is decentralized and presumably *could* be opened right
now.

The SEC and the heads of NASDAQ, NYSE, and AMEX determined that it would be
preferable to open all three of the exchanges at the same time rather than
allowing trading only on the NASDAQ while NYSE and AMEX remained closed.


Regards, Bob


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2001\09\14@162410 by Cris Wilson

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At 01:13 PM 9/14/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Apparently the picture has been removed.  Do you have a copy of it (or
>at least a good link)?

Go to CNN's videos. It's the second tower video and it's 25 seconds into it.
www.cnn.com/video/us/2001/09/12/2nd.plane.hits.cnn.med.asx
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2001\09\14@205340 by Dale Botkin

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On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Jim wrote:

> I thought NASDAQ was de-centralized (there is
> no NASDAQ trading floor!), in fact I'm sure
> of it!
>
> NASDAQ - National Association of Securities Dealers
>          Automated Quotation System.
>
>
> In fact, I know that a numer of the "ECNs" (like
> DATEK) are located in Manhattan-west (New Jersey) ...

Datek is directly across the river at Hudson Place in Joisey City.  We (my
employer) just bought NDB, which is right across the street from Datek.
A few of my coworkers on the assimilation team <grin> watched the WTC
hits.  I was out there week before last...  hard to believe those
incredible towers are gone, along with thousands of lives.

Dale
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