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'[OT]: Software copying (was Re: PCB Making (a diff'
2002\03\07@153212 by Vit

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Peter (and everybody),

I did not mean to start another useless topic.  I know that I won't convince
you that I'm right, or that you will convince me that I'm wrong.  We all
have heard plenty of arguments from both sides, and made our choices.

When I saw that everyone was making Simon look like the bad guy, I thought I
should say what I think.

I use "illegal" software.  Let me make another bad assumption and tell you
that you have, too.  Am I wrong, Peter?  This doesn't make it right, but if
you, or anyone else who accused Simon, have used cracked programs, your
statements about the "wrongness" of software piracy are hypocritical.

> 1) >>Software cannot be /stolen/, it can be /copied/. ...
> It can be stolen. If taken without permission or in violation of stated
> conditions, copyrighted material is protected in law--and, hence, the
> courts.

Laws were made by people, and can be changed.  When Dmitriy was arrested for
hacking Adobe's code, I was wondering why this hasn't happened to Bill
Gates: he performed reverse engineering, too!

> 3) >> When people say that their software had been
> >> "stolen", they assume that if Simon did not have the
> >> means to copy the program, he would have bought it.
> Bad assumption and worse logic. Non Sequitur

Explain why.

> Vitaliy, fine, you may do as you wish at the WWW Bazaar. Others may be
> think more as if in a locked office and rule of law issues. We should
> respect that also.
> For all our sakes, please consider others' rights in these software
> matters.

Agree 100%.  Simon shouldn't mentioned his cracked software in a public
forum.  Using or not using the software is a matter of one's conscience.

Vitaliy

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2002\03\08@005611 by Sergio Masci

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I just love the argument that "a user of an illegal copy of a program is not
depriving the author of any earnings since that user would not have bought a
copy anyway". What a crock... If there were no way to use an illegal copy,
the user would save up and either  buy a legal copy or an alternative. "Oh,
I can't afford a car so I'll just borrow the neighbours", yeah right! The
craziest thing of all is that the person that really looses out is the user.
By choking the revenue stream for the author, the author is forced to cut
corners and release inferior quality software. It also stifles competition,
why should I waste time trying to produce a cheap alternative to XYZ product
when people just rip off and use XYZ.

Fact: good software saves you time. Anything that saves you time is a
benefit to you.
Fact: bad software (regardless of the bugs) that saves you time IS STILL a
benefit to you
If you want greater benefits from your software, encourage the authors don't
dissuade them.

Regards
Sergio
http://www.xcprod.com

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2002\03\08@024756 by James Caska

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face
Love your work :-)

James Caska
.....caskaKILLspamspam@spam@virtualbreadboard.com
ujVM - Java Virtual Machine on a PIC!

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Sergio Masci
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 4:06 PM
To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [OT]: Software copying (was Re: PCB Making (a different
viewpoint))


I just love the argument that "a user of an illegal copy of a program is not
depriving the author of any earnings since that user would not have bought a
copy anyway". What a crock... If there were no way to use an illegal copy,
the user would save up and either  buy a legal copy or an alternative. "Oh,
I can't afford a car so I'll just borrow the neighbours", yeah right! The
craziest thing of all is that the person that really looses out is the user.
By choking the revenue stream for the author, the author is forced to cut
corners and release inferior quality software. It also stifles competition,
why should I waste time trying to produce a cheap alternative to XYZ product
when people just rip off and use XYZ.

Fact: good software saves you time. Anything that saves you time is a
benefit to you.
Fact: bad software (regardless of the bugs) that saves you time IS STILL a
benefit to you
If you want greater benefits from your software, encourage the authors don't
dissuade them.

Regards
Sergio
http://www.xcprod.com

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2002\03\08@101027 by Herbert Graf

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face
I don't want to get into this thing too much, I doubt there is a SINGLE
person on this list who has never used "illegal" software, however your
analogy of borrowing a neighbour's car does nto count. By borrowing a
neighbours car you deprive them of the use of that car , by borrowing
software you don't deprive the use of that software, since you have a COPY.
This is a big distinction that seems to slip people's minds way too often.
I'm not advocating software "theft", however it does anger me when some
"group" gives figures on piracy based on the assumption that all those
people would have bought the software they were pirating if they weren't
able to pirate it, which is obviously false and misleading. TTYL

> {Original Message removed}

2002\03\08@104052 by Chris Loiacono

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How does it go, something like "let the one that is without sin cast the
first stone"...or some such wording.. A good point.

If this thread keeps going, we'll be saying "Hey, remember the PIClist, too
bad what happened to it..."

C


{Quote hidden}

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2002\03\08@105224 by John Ferrell

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Unfortunately I seem to have a knack for buying products with well concealed
flaws. As a result I am unable to return the program even though It develops
into shelfware.

Some of the side effects are that the program cannot coexist with certain
other programs OR that over time it corrupts the windows registry OR it
cannot be migrated to an upgrades machine because the helpline don't work
anymore OR it uses unannounced/unsupported OS/hardware conditions that limit
some of the features OR ....

Sometimes a little larceny is necessary to survive. I won't argue the matter
of needing to own software in commercial use.


John Ferrell
6241 Phillippi Rd
Julian NC 27283
Phone: (336)685-9606
Dixie Competition Products
NSRCA 479 AMA 4190  W8CCW
"My Competition is Not My Enemy"



{Original Message removed}

2002\03\08@210833 by Sergio Masci

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Loiacono <EraseMEchrisspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMAIL2ASI.COM>
To: <PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OT]: Software copying (was Re: PCB Making (a different
viewpoint))


> How does it go, something like "let the one that is without sin cast the
> first stone"...or some such wording.. A good point.
>
> If this thread keeps going, we'll be saying "Hey, remember the PIClist,
too
> bad what happened to it..."
>
> C

The point about casting stones is "forgiving others as we would wish to
be forgiven ourselves". BUT an underlying requirement of forgiveness is
that the offender is sorry and doesn't intend to continue doing the wrong.

"casting the first stone" doesn't mean "hey, everyone is doing it so let's
just keep quite and keep doing it"

Having a short debate about software theft wont kill the piclist, but
hopefully it will raise awareness amongst software users about the
real cost to themselves concerning the use of indiscriminately pirated
software

Regards
Sergio
http://www.xcprod.com

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2002\03\08@230804 by Sergio Masci

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: John Ferrell <@spam@johnferrellKILLspamspamSPRINTMAIL.COM>
To: <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [OT]: Software copying (was Re: PCB Making (a different
viewpoint))


> Unfortunately I seem to have a knack for buying products with well
concealed
> flaws. As a result I am unable to return the program even though It
develops
> into shelfware.
>
> Some of the side effects are that the program cannot coexist with certain
> other programs OR that over time it corrupts the windows registry OR it
> cannot be migrated to an upgrades machine because the helpline don't work
> anymore OR it uses unannounced/unsupported OS/hardware conditions that
limit
> some of the features OR ....

But this is a direct consequence of using pirate software. If people are
prepared to use pirate copies of software (with a high ticket value)
regardless of the bugs, then they are inhibiting alternative software
development. People keep complaining about various C compilers, but why
should I bother producing an alternative high quality cheap C compiler if
these same people are going to just continue using cracked versions of the
compilers they keep complaining about anyway?

>
> Sometimes a little larceny is necessary to survive. I won't argue the
matter
> of needing to own software in commercial use.
>

If a private individual steals a loaf of bread to survive then I sympathise
and would be the last to condemn. But stealing sweats is another mater.

I company that uses pirated software is not only stealing from the author,
it is also putting a burden on its honest competitors and giving itself an
unfair advantage (by reducing its running costs). It puts pressure on its
competitors to do the same.

Regards
Sergio
http://www.xcprod.com

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2002\03\09@143600 by John Ferrell

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face
It is a problem that is growing over time. I got my money's worth when I
bought The early Borland compilers, Mix C, Quattro and Reflex. I am a
legitimate user of Paint Shop Pro and Corel Draw 8. They work as advertised.
I won't tell you how long the test drive was before I bought & registered
them.

I wish I had done the same with Real Flight Simulator and this Intergraph
Drawing Package. About $600+ between them. The simulator is a primitive toy
compared to the competitors. The Intergraph package was presented as a less
expensive alternative to AutoCAD. They failed to make me aware that I would
need to make up the cost difference in education expenses before I could
utilize it. I doubt that I will ever get it sorted out to my satisfaction.

I always recommend that a prospective user try a bootleg copy and
extensively test it before they buy it. IF they can make the software do
their job THEN it becomes the LEGAL and MORAL thing to do and purchase it.

There is a Scientific Calculator Program (Palm Pilot) named SynCalc that has
a generous trial period and then goes to sleep. The registration fee is
reasonable. I like the product & the marketing strategy. Apparently the
registration considers the date and the User Name. I did not have to contact
them when I upgraded, it transferred over with out a problem. Great product,
great plan.

I have this great Newsletter program called Microsoft Publisher. Only
problem is that I cannot install it more than twice. The will only authorize
the appropriate install code twice. When the system developed a corrupt
registry (tell me why this should be my problem!) I had to beg for a third
authorization code for the new machine. The second machine is an off site
back up location of last resort, a mutual backup condition with another
enterprise.  I guess I am supposed to be comfortable with them deciding when
to tell me my software dies!

I am looking for Publishing software at this time....
I intend an extensive test drive....


John Ferrell
6241 Phillippi Rd
Julian NC 27283
Phone: (336)685-9606
Dixie Competition Products
NSRCA 479 AMA 4190  W8CCW
"My Competition is Not My Enemy"



{Original Message removed}

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