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'[OT]: Re: [EE]: Good PCB Design Software?'
2001\05\17@092454 by Scott Newell

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>I would like to see it be a piclist rule that posts that in any way
>encourage or enable the violation of law be prohibited.

Whose law?  US?  Chinese?

What about things like hacking the CueCat?  Wasn't that technically illegal
for some people who'd agreed to some of the terms to install the software?

Don't we all have enough to worry about without bringing on the lawyers?


newell

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2001\05\17@105057 by michael brown

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Newell" <spam_OUTnewellTakeThisOuTspamCEI.NET>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 8:17 AM
Subject: [OT]: Re: [EE]: Good PCB Design Software?


> >I would like to see it be a piclist rule that posts that in any way
> >encourage or enable the violation of law be prohibited.
>
> Whose law?  US?  Chinese?
>
> What about things like hacking the CueCat?  Wasn't that technically
illegal
> for some people who'd agreed to some of the terms to install the software?
>
> Don't we all have enough to worry about without bringing on the lawyers?
>
>
> newell

<climbing upon my soap box>
<RANT>
Amen to that!  Trying to impose personal viewpoints upon others is both
pointless and counter-productive.  We have been thru this already.  The law
here (US) is not the same as the law in Romania, China or Pakistan.  Many
countries do not observe copyrights or patents. Does anybody remember the
Peach computer? (Korean Apple II clone)

Anyone who has upgraded a motherboard or transferred a hard drive containing
windoze to another computer is (technically) in violation of their EULA.
Once windoze is installed and the EULA accepted it is now (permanently)
mated to that hardware combination.  Even if you completely destroy the
original equipment (pc) you can not (legally) take your windoze cd and
install the os to another new computer.  Of course, I am sure that everyone
already knew that after carefully reading their EULA before accepting it.
;-)  With the upcoming XP software from mickeysoft people will become much
more aware of how the EULA's work, since it will be enforced the way
mickeysoft interprets it.

If the pc's bios had not been reverse-engineered we would all be buying our
pc's from IBM for the low, low price of approximately $5000.00 - $7500.00
US.  As to the CueCat, it is expressly forbidden to reverse-engineer the
hardware or software.  How about quoting different manufactures ideas of how
to charge batteries, aren't we violating their copyrights?  Or even posting
a URL (linking into someone else's site) can be construed as a violation.
(ask Matt Drudge)  E-mailing a datasheet?  Modifying a 4w fluorescent light
to erase eproms?  In this day and age you can't even drive to work without
breaking the law in some fashion.
</RANT>

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2001\05\17@123314 by Dan Larson

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We could just shut down the PIC List all-together. Then everyone would
be safe from "bad" thoughts and ideas.

It used to be that mailing lists were so much nicer than the usenet groups.

Now it sort of seems like there is no longer any difference.

Over the years I have probably learned more from the PIC List on the topic
of engineering than any other single source. This is true inspite of all
of the flame wars and rules.

As far as I am concerned, there ARE NO LAWS on the Internet, other than
those which are self-inforced. By that I mean: We are all *necessarily*
governed by our personal ethics and morals which, of course, don't always
rise to the same level as others may wish them too.

Ultimately, if you trade *any* of your freedoms (in this case freedom of speach)
for safety (in this case being spared the unpleasant accounts of the anti-social
behavior of others), you will likely end up with neither. Your freedom will be
gone and you may find that your safety is only an illusion to begin with.

Every freedom is precious and must be guarded dearly, for all to often, the
terrible price of blood must be paid to gain them back. To not do so,, is to spit
in the face of those who have given their lives so that you can sit comfortably
in front of your computer and play with PICs instead of fighting in trenches with
real weapons and real bloodshed.

This, of course, is just IMHO...

Dan


On Thu, 17 May 2001 09:45:38 -0500, michael brown wrote:

>{Original Message removed}

2001\05\18@140730 by Peter L. Peres

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> >I would like to see it be a piclist rule that posts that in any way
> >encourage or enable the violation of law be prohibited.
>
> Whose law?  US?  Chinese?

Yours, if you ever hope to sell something you have designed without being
copied immediately and everywhere. Be that PIC firmware or software you
write or hardware you design and test. Wherever you are.

> What about things like hacking the CueCat?  Wasn't that technically
> illegal for some people who'd agreed to some of the terms to install
> the software?

The 'hacking' of the CueCat, just like 'hacking' certain products so they
can be used with BSD and Linux are in the gray zone but they nevertheless
*sell* products. Their makers make an uncalculated profit from this. It
also costs them nothing at all (driver development for $0 + no liability).

Copying cracked software directly damages sales and is in a very different
league.

> Don't we all have enough to worry about without bringing on the lawyers?

If you look 2 steps ahead and apply a little bit of self discipline you
and others won't need lawyers in this matter.

Let's stop this now please. I just did.

Peter

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