Post by thread:[OT]: Radio Shack

>I blew the 100 mA fuse in my meter (fourth time now), so I thought I >would see if Radio Shack had any. Unfortunately, the smallest they had >was .5 A. I talked to one of the sales guys there, and he said "it is >no problem if you just use a bigger fuse." Ack! I explained the basic >concept of fuses to him, but I am not sure how much it sunk in. > >I don't expect much from Radio Shack, but this is almost criminal. I >wonder how much damage he is responsible for? While I was working in quality control for a company (pcb assembly) that shall remain nameless, I once found a set of boards that had had their 5A SMD fuses replaced with 6.5A SMD fuses during the assembly process. I was doing second inspection (someone else had already inspected the boards) so I realized that there could be many more of these that had gone through another QC, so I took it to my supervisor, and he said "Hmm, lets see, 6.5A, so that won't blow before it's supposed to, right?" I looked at him in horror for a few seconds, and I think that twigged his higher logic functions, since we then went and hunted down all the other mis-fused boards and got them fixed. Like your Radio Shack guy, I wonder how much damage my QC supervisor was responsible for. I don't think he had even a cursory understanding of electronics, and was working in an electronics assembly house... *sigh* --Brendan -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

> > > >I don't expect much from Radio Shack, but this is almost > criminal. I > >wonder how much damage he is responsible for? > > While I was working in quality control for a company (pcb > assembly) that shall remain nameless, I once found a set of > boards that had had their 5A SMD fuses replaced with 6.5A SMD > fuses during the assembly process. I was doing second > inspection (someone else had already inspected the boards) so > I realized that there could be many more of these that had > gone through another QC, so I took it to my supervisor, and > he said "Hmm, lets see, 6.5A, so that won't blow before it's > supposed to, right?" I looked at him in horror for a few Well, he was right. It won't blow before it is supposed to. It will blow after. :-) What in the heck were you working on that had a 5A fuse? Yeesh. Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Alex Kilpatrick wrote: > I blew the 100 mA fuse in my meter (fourth time now), so I thought I > would see if Radio Shack had any. Unfortunately, the smallest they had > was .5 A. I talked to one of the sales guys there, and he said "it is > no problem if you just use a bigger fuse." Ack! I explained the basic > concept of fuses to him, but I am not sure how much it sunk in. > > I don't expect much from Radio Shack, but this is almost criminal. I > wonder how much damage he is responsible for? <HUMOR> Easy enough to teach them the importance of proper fuse sizing. hand the sales associate 2 wires (make them 10 guage) one in each hand. On one wire have a fuse holder and ask the sales associate if he wants a 100 mA fuse or a .5A fuse. :-) You're idea of the appropriate voltage can be used, personally I prefer a demonstration with DC and something like 48V but 220 AC could be fun too. </HUMOR> DO NOT try this, the text is just meant as a joke! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherryKILLspamcomcast.net http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ncherry/ (Text only) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II) -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

I dunno. In modern electronics, fuses generally protect against relatively catastrophic failures, and it seems pretty likely that increasing the value of a fuse by an amp or two isn't really that likely to be a terrible thing. (ie fuses are too slow to protect electronics; they primarilly protect against fires and such. Can you actually imaging a failure mode where your ~3A circuit draws more than 5A but less than 6.5A, and explain why that's particularly dangerous?) The 100mA fuse in a meter presuambly protectst the meter movement itself, right? Or maybe it stops the shunt resistor from burning up. So maybe it's more critical... BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

> > > I dunno. In modern electronics, fuses generally protect > against relatively catastrophic failures, and it seems pretty > likely that increasing the value of a fuse by an amp or two > isn't really that likely to be a terrible thing. (ie fuses > are too slow to protect electronics; they primarilly protect > against fires and such. Can you actually imaging a failure > mode where your ~3A circuit draws more than 5A but less than > 6.5A, and explain why that's particularly dangerous?) > > The 100mA fuse in a meter presuambly protectst the meter > movement itself, right? Or maybe it stops the shunt resistor > from burning up. So maybe it's more critical... > It is a digital meter. The 100 mA fuse is probably not there to prevent a fire. :-) I assume it protects sensitive electronics that measure small current. The meter will measure down to uA. Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Hi BillW! On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, William Chops Westfield wrote: > I dunno. In modern electronics, fuses generally protect against > relatively catastrophic failures, and it seems pretty likely that > increasing the value of a fuse by an amp or two isn't really that likely > to be a terrible thing. (ie fuses are too slow to protect electronics; > they primarilly protect against fires and such. Can you actually > imaging a failure mode where your ~3A circuit draws more than 5A but > less than 6.5A, and explain why that's particularly dangerous?) That's not the point. The manufacturer is Responsible for the quality and function of the product. With a capital 'R'. QC is responsible for assuring the quality. The poster did his job 100& right. If something blows up, or catches fire, or kills someone, the manufacturer, and the QC if he -knew- about the mistake but -didn't- do anything about it, is responsible. Ethically and legally. Possibly criminally. How heavy a weight would you want hanging over -your- head when you put your little stamp on that slip of paper that says 'OK - WCW'? Would you use an electric lawn mower on a damp day if you knew the fuse had been replaced with a higher rating? LOL! Think about it on a personal level and it becomes a little more important. Have a :) day! jb -- jim barchuk .....jbKILLspam.....jbarchuk.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

>People in Radio Shack are like any other group - mechanics, cooks, house >painters. Some are downright stupid, some are good, and some are >outstanding. It's all potluck. You just have to be alert. I've been dealing with Radio Shack for many years. It is about the only game in town, here, and if you only want a couple of 1/4 watt resistors you do not particularly want to order from DigiKey. And also, sometimes you are in a hurry. Some of the people I've met are very knowledgeable (most of the knowledgeable ones are hams, for whatever that may be worth) and some are not. One of the managers is a friend of mine, and he says that they would absolutely love to hire talented, knowledgeable experts if they could find them for what they can pay. But they kind of have to take what they can get. John -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

In a message dated 03/13/2003 19:48:38 Eastern Standard Time, EraseMEjnall01spam_OUTTakeThisOuTALLTEL.NET writes: {Quote hidden}> I've been dealing with Radio Shack for many years. It is about the only > game in town, here, and if you only want a couple of 1/4 watt resistors you > do not particularly want to order from DigiKey. And also, sometimes you > are in a hurry. Some of the people I've met are very knowledgeable (most > of the knowledgeable ones are hams, for whatever that may be worth) and > some are not. One of the managers is a friend of mine, and he says that > they would absolutely love to hire talented, knowledgeable experts if they > could find them for what they can pay. But they kind of have to take what > they can get. > I"m with you, John. I live in a small town and they have saved my butt many a time. Need a cap - 15 minutes instead of 4 days, no minimun, no freight. They don't have everything, but almost. Sid -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:43:27 -0800, Brendan Moran wrote: > While I was working in quality control for a company (pcb assembly) > that shall remain nameless, I once found a set of boards that had > had their 5A SMD fuses replaced with 6.5A SMD fuses during the > assembly process. I was doing second inspection (someone else had > already inspected the boards) so I realized that there could be many > more of these that had gone through another QC, so I took it to my > supervisor, and he said "Hmm, lets see, 6.5A, so that won't blow > before it's supposed to, right?" I looked at him in horror for a few > seconds, and I think that twigged his higher logic functions, since > we then went and hunted down all the other mis-fused boards and got > them fixed. > > > Like your Radio Shack guy, I wonder how much damage my QC supervisor > was responsible for. I don't think he had even a cursory > understanding of electronics, and was working in an electronics > assembly house... *sigh* Personally, I don't really want a production person to know much, if anything about electronics. That will just encourage them to think about things they don't need to, like whether it's OK to substitute a part or not. That's the engineer's job. I want them to know how to follow documentation, build things per the documentation, question the documentation if it does look suspect and reject anything not built to spec. That doesn't require any electronics knowledge at all, but it does require common sense and good judgment. Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:34:29 -0500, jim barchuk wrote: > That's not the point. The manufacturer is Responsible for the quality > and function of the product. With a capital 'R'. QC is responsible > for assuring the quality. The poster did his job 100& right. If > something blows up, or catches fire, or kills someone, the > manufacturer, and the QC if he -knew- about the mistake but -didn't- > do anything about it, is responsible. Ethically and legally. Possibly > criminally. How heavy a weight would you want hanging over -your- > head when you put your little stamp on that slip of paper that says > 'OK - WCW'? Would you use an electric lawn mower on a damp day if you > knew the fuse had been replaced with a higher rating? LOL! Think > about it on a personal level and it becomes a little more important. My best friend is the director of manufacturing for a medical company that designs and manufactures infusion pumps (they are also a client of mine). He has a great saying he teaches to *ALL* his employees, from the technician, assembly line personnel, even the paper pushers... "Would you hook this device up to your spouse or child?" Kinda gets the point across on a personal basis. Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Radio Shack in the UK filled a hole in the market. Available all over the place and accessable, they were great when you let the magic smoke out of something (I remember a memorable day when I literally blew the top off a 555)... Shame they've now all been turned into Carphone Whorehouses :) Where I live in Nottingham, Maplins are right next to PC World. It appears Maplins is slowly turning into it's neighbour. If you want a new mouse of some CD-Rs, no problems. If you want anything to do with electronics though... I went today and they only had 50% of what I wanted. They've also dropped off the multi-way connectors I was rather fond of..... I suppose it's the price I pay for using Crownhill or other mail order places because they're cheaper.... YMMV, Ben {Original Message removed}

I have to disagree strongly here. Experience has taught me that there is great value in being surrounded by the most skilled and knowlegeable people that can be found. Wanting to keep 'em *stoopid* (thanks for the great word Dwayne!) is a trait of many managers who either feel challenged by intelligent people, or who only know how to motivate people of lesser intelligence. (I guess there is also the military - where "need to know' and stupidity are inexplicably combined.) Managers with up to date management skills know how to prevent each one from overstepping their bounds in potentially harmful ways while helping them expand their horizons and enhancing the value of the organization. The Gallup organization recently released the results of a 25 year survey that included profiling of > 2 million people. I was originally trained and worked as an Industrial Engineer - during those years I learned to question the many theories that were developed on this subject many were based on the author's desires to succed or on emotional or shock appeal - but Gallup has compiled their results into a huge unbiased set of observation based facts. Overwhelmingly, the record shows the import of developing employees skills as one of the most common traits of successful managers.... I want production people who understand more than they 'need to'. Many, many times I have seen the poor slob who presses pins into boards or loads pallets into solder machines all day long discover the real reason for some inexplicable intermittent failure problem while a team of EE's ponders over the same. Likewise, many production people have become either initiated patent apps or become patent holders because they observed something with more understanding than they were 'supposed to' have. What a shame it would be to not have this kind of exchange in any organization.... C > Personally, I don't really want a production person to know much, if > anything about electronics. That will just encourage them to think > about things they don't need to, like whether it's OK to substitute a > part or not. That's the engineer's job. I want them to know how to > follow documentation, build things per the documentation, question the > documentation if it does look suspect and reject anything not built to > spec. That doesn't require any electronics knowledge at all, but it > does require common sense and good judgment. > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

I agree. Also, understanding why things have to be done a certain way removes some of the temptation to cut corners. I've met production workers who think that the engineering types just like to heap meaningless requirements on them. I also found that someone who had a clue as to how the devices worked almost never had this attitude. There are also sometimes manufacturing processes (probably not PCB assembly) that require considerable skill. Someone who understands why it has to be done a certain way is more likely to learn the skill well and learn it faster. I worked (only for a summer) at a place that did high power laser diode packaging for fiber optic Erbium doped fiber amplifier laser "pumps". One step in the assembly process involved lining up a single mode fiber with a tiny laser diode die to get maximum power transfer and then applying epoxy to several pieces to hold it all in place. There was a very strong correlation between basic understanding and quality of work. Some people never learned how to do it well because they didn't understand what was critical and what wasn't. Sean At 08:35 PM 3/13/2003 -0500, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>I have to disagree strongly here. >Experience has taught me that there is great value in being surrounded by >the most skilled and knowlegeable people that can be found. Wanting to keep >'em *stoopid* (thanks for the great word Dwayne!) is a trait of many >managers who either feel challenged by intelligent people, or who only know >how to motivate people of lesser intelligence. (I guess there is also the >military - where "need to know' and stupidity are inexplicably combined.) >Managers with up to date management skills know how to prevent each one from >overstepping their bounds in potentially harmful ways while helping them >expand their horizons and enhancing the value of the organization. > >The Gallup organization recently released the results of a 25 year survey >that included profiling of > 2 million people. I was originally trained and >worked as an Industrial Engineer - during those years I learned to question >the many theories that were developed on this subject many were based on the >author's desires to succed or on emotional or shock appeal - but Gallup has >compiled their results into a huge unbiased set of observation based facts. >Overwhelmingly, the record shows the import of developing employees skills >as one of the most common traits of successful managers.... > >I want production people who understand more than they 'need to'. Many, many >times I have seen the poor slob who presses pins into boards or loads >pallets into solder machines all day long discover the real reason for some >inexplicable intermittent failure problem while a team of EE's ponders over >the same. Likewise, many production people have become either initiated >patent apps or become patent holders because they observed something with >more understanding than they were 'supposed to' have. What a shame it would >be to not have this kind of exchange in any organization.... > >C > > Personally, I don't really want a production person to know much, if > > anything about electronics. That will just encourage them to think > > about things they don't need to, like whether it's OK to substitute a > > part or not. That's the engineer's job. I want them to know how to > > follow documentation, build things per the documentation, question the > > documentation if it does look suspect and reject anything not built to > > spec. That doesn't require any electronics knowledge at all, but it > > does require common sense and good judgment. > > > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: >[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Alex Kilpatrick <AlexKspam_OUTHCITRAINING.COM> wrote: > It is a digital meter. The 100 mA fuse is probably not there to prevent > a fire. :-) Actually, it is. It's for when you forget that the meter is in current mode and you put it across a voltage source. The fuse prevents the test leads from melting in your hands. A 500 mA fuse works just as well as a 100 mA fuse for this purpose. > I assume it protects sensitive electronics that measure small current. > The meter will measure down to uA. It's actually fairly easy to protect the electronics from overvoltage faults. You need to do this anyway, as the fuse cannot possibly blow quickly enough to protect them. I'll grant you that many RS employees are fairly dim bulbs, but in this particular case, he did *not* give you bad advice. As far as being "horrified" about a change from a 5A to a 6.5A fuse, there's the QC point of view and the engineering point of view. From the QC point of view, it is manufacturing's responsibility to produce the product that engineering specified. *Any* deviation is a cause for concern. However, from an engineering point of view, fuses are very sloppy devices. If you've ever looked at the percent overload vs. opening time curve for a typical fuse, you'd understand this. They don't even specify a minimum opening time, just a maximum for certain levels of overload. They sometimes even promise that the fuse *won't* open for certain small overloads (like 125%), so you know what kind of design margin you have. The actual difference between a 5A fuse and a 6.5A fuse is way down in the noise. -- Dave Tweed -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Tweed [@spam@picKILLspamDTWEED.COM] > Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 8:20 PM > To: KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [OT]: Radio Shack > > > Alex Kilpatrick <RemoveMEAlexKTakeThisOuTHCITRAINING.COM> wrote: > > It is a digital meter. The 100 mA fuse is probably not there to > > prevent a fire. :-) > > Actually, it is. It's for when you forget that the meter is > in current mode and you put it across a voltage source. The > fuse prevents the test leads from melting in your hands. A > 500 mA fuse works just as well as a 100 mA fuse for this purpose. > Are you sure? My meter (Fluke) has two possible inputs for measuring current. One goes up to 10A (I think) and one is fused at 100 mA. If it isn't fast enough to save the electronics, then what is it for? Why not just have one input at 10A? Radio Shack does have 500 mA fuses, so I would gladly use one if it is going to be the same. Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Just to add to the confusion I bought an electrical appliance the other day. In the instruction manual it said "the appliance is supplied as standard with a 5 Amp fuse. If this blows it should be replaced it with a 13A fuse". I don't understand quite why even now. Perhaps they'd run out of 13A fuses... This was in the mass produced printed instructions BTW!!!! If anyone is interested I can pull out the maker and model.... I can't believe it was just the old adage "if the fuse blows use a bigger one". I've seen enough domestic fuse boxes with 1/4" nails for fuses :( I'm not as green as I'm cabbage looking, I just can't believe someone responsible for a electronics firm would actually write this without good reason (e.g. use of 110v rather than 240v on a given load) Ben {Original Message removed}

> Actually, it is. It's for when you forget that the meter is > in current mode and you put it across a voltage source. The > fuse prevents the test leads from melting in your hands. Well, a typical digital meter will run the current you're trying to measure through a low-value shunt resistor, and then put the voltage drop through a nice sensitive A-D converter. At low current ranges, this "shunt resistor" probably has a high precision, low wattage, and relatively high ohm value, and I suspect that these resistors are what you are protecting with a fuse. For the high current range, you probably have a high-power resistor of rather lower precision and ohms, with accuracu suitable for measuring larger currents... Melting the leads can happen after the resistors "fail shorted", but I don't think it is the primary concern... BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Alex Kilpatrick <spamBeGoneAlexKspamBeGoneHCITRAINING.COM> wrote: > Dave Tweed <TakeThisOuTpicEraseMEspam_OUTdtweed.com> wrote: > > Alex Kilpatrick <RemoveMEAlexKTakeThisOuTHCITRAINING.COM> wrote: > > > It is a digital meter. The 100 mA fuse is probably not there to > > > prevent a fire. :-) > > > > Actually, it is. It's for when you forget that the meter is > > in current mode and you put it across a voltage source. The > > fuse prevents the test leads from melting in your hands. A > > 500 mA fuse works just as well as a 100 mA fuse for this purpose. > > Are you sure? My meter (Fluke) has two possible inputs for measuring > current. One goes up to 10A (I think) and one is fused at 100 mA. If > it isn't fast enough to save the electronics, then what is it for? Why > not just have one input at 10A? Quite sure. The 10A range uses a special shunt and very low-resistance traces on the PCB to get good accuracy. At least, that's how it is on my Heathkit DMM. The fact that there's a separate input means that they didn't even want to run the current through the range switches. The 100 mA fuse is also protecting the shunt(s) and the narrower PCB traces used for the lower ranges, but I'd be very surprised (I was going to say "shocked" but thought better of it :-) if they'd be damaged at 500 mA. At least a 500 mA fuse will provide enough protection to let you keep going until you can order some 100 mA fuses. Just be extra careful to double check your meter settings before each measurement. -- Dave Tweed -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

But never wet or dry, use the mower without a GFI breaker unless its a battery operated one... Vern William Chops Westfield wrote: {Quote hidden}> > The manufacturer is Responsible for the quality and function of the > product. With a capital 'R'. QC is responsible for assuring the > quality. The poster did his job 100& right. > > Oh, I agree with that. I just don't think that the acceptance of the > "wrong" fuse by his boss(es) was so horrifying... > > Would you use an electric lawn mower on a damp day if you knew the > fuse had been replaced with a higher rating? LOL! > > Well, yes. Cause *I* know that there ain't a fuse made that's going > to protect ME from electrocution. 20mA, remember... > > BillW > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

>As far as being "horrified" about a change from a 5A to a 6.5A fuse, >there's the QC point of view and the engineering point of view. From the >QC point of view, it is manufacturing's responsibility to produce the >product that engineering specified. *Any* deviation is a cause for conce I know perfectly well about fuses, and the standard 15% overdesign that is done on fuses. But, frankly, here is a guy with a bachelors in process management standing there trying to justify a problem in the board that all the other QCs missed. It's not so much that it had to be that particular fuse, but more that we didn't know exactly why they had chosen a 5A fuse. If you're a manufacturer and you don't know why a designer chose to use one size of fuse, you have no right to change the fuse size. --Brendan -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

At 01:14 AM 14/03/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Radio Shack in the UK filled a hole in the market. Available all over the >place and accessable, they were great when you let the magic smoke out of >something (I remember a memorable day when I literally blew the top off a >555)... Shame they've now all been turned into Carphone Whorehouses :) >Where I live in Nottingham, Maplins are right next to PC World. It appears >Maplins is slowly turning into it's neighbour. If you want a new mouse of >some CD-Rs, no problems. If you want anything to do with electronics >though... I went today and they only had 50% of what I wanted. They've also >dropped off the multi-way connectors I was rather fond of..... >I suppose it's the price I pay for using Crownhill or other mail order >places because they're cheaper.... I'm afraid that the only hole that Radio Shack is filling where I live is the "Where do I buy a 555 for $5.55?" hole. Ok, so I'm exaggerating it's only $3.29 for a $0.40 chip, but still. --Brendan -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

I didn't say I wanted 'em stupid. In fact far from it. I actually agree 100% with you and probably didn't state my opinion very clearly. I think what I value most is common sense and a wide range of knowledge. I know I've learned a lot by listening to assemblers, QC inspectors, technicians and even (gasp) purchasing agents. On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:35:46 -0500, Chris Loiacono wrote: {Quote hidden}> I have to disagree strongly here. > Experience has taught me that there is great value in being > surrounded by the most skilled and knowlegeable people that can be > found. Wanting to keep 'em *stoopid* (thanks for the great word > Dwayne!) is a trait of many managers who either feel challenged by > intelligent people, or who only know how to motivate people of lesser > intelligence. (I guess there is also the military - where "need to > know' and stupidity are inexplicably combined.) Managers with up to > date management skills know how to prevent each one from overstepping > their bounds in potentially harmful ways while helping them expand > their horizons and enhancing the value of the organization. Yes, exactly. That sad fact is that most companies I've either worked for or with this hasn't been the case. {Quote hidden}> The Gallup organization recently released the results of a 25 year > survey that included profiling of > 2 million people. I was > originally trained and worked as an Industrial Engineer - during > those years I learned to question the many theories that were > developed on this subject many were based on the author's desires to > succed or on emotional or shock appeal - but Gallup has compiled > their results into a huge unbiased set of observation based facts. > Overwhelmingly, the record shows the import of developing employees > skills as one of the most common traits of successful managers.... > > > I want production people who understand more than they 'need to'. > Many, many times I have seen the poor slob who presses pins into > boards or loads pallets into solder machines all day long discover > the real reason for some inexplicable intermittent failure problem > while a team of EE's ponders over the same. Likewise, many production > people have become either initiated patent apps or become patent > holders because they observed something with more understanding than > they were 'supposed to' have. What a shame it would be to not have > this kind of exchange in any organization.... Also very true. I know I actually spend a lot of time working with production people helping them understand exactly how things should work. I also work exclusively with contract manufacturers (many not of my choosing), so that may color my view of things too. Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

>and even (gasp) purchasing agents NFW! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Pobursky" <piclistEraseME.....MPS-DESIGN.COM> To: <EraseMEPICLISTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [OT]: Radio Shack {Quote hidden}> I didn't say I wanted 'em stupid. In fact far from it. > > I actually agree 100% with you and probably didn't state my opinion > very clearly. I think what I value most is common sense and a wide > range of knowledge. I know I've learned a lot by listening to > assemblers, QC inspectors, technicians and even (gasp) purchasing > agents. > > On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:35:46 -0500, Chris Loiacono wrote: > > I have to disagree strongly here. > > Experience has taught me that there is great value in being > > surrounded by the most skilled and knowlegeable people that can be > > found. Wanting to keep 'em *stoopid* (thanks for the great word > > Dwayne!) is a trait of many managers who either feel challenged by > > intelligent people, or who only know how to motivate people of lesser > > intelligence. (I guess there is also the military - where "need to > > know' and stupidity are inexplicably combined.) Managers with up to > > date management skills know how to prevent each one from overstepping > > their bounds in potentially harmful ways while helping them expand > > their horizons and enhancing the value of the organization. > > Yes, exactly. That sad fact is that most companies I've either worked > for or with this hasn't been the case. > > > The Gallup organization recently released the results of a 25 year > > survey that included profiling of > 2 million people. I was > > originally trained and worked as an Industrial Engineer - during > > those years I learned to question the many theories that were > > developed on this subject many were based on the author's desires to > > succed or on emotional or shock appeal - but Gallup has compiled > > their results into a huge unbiased set of observation based facts. > > Overwhelmingly, the record shows the import of developing employees > > skills as one of the most common traits of successful managers.... > > > > > > I want production people who understand more than they 'need to'. > > Many, many times I have seen the poor slob who presses pins into > > boards or loads pallets into solder machines all day long discover > > the real reason for some inexplicable intermittent failure problem > > while a team of EE's ponders over the same. Likewise, many production > > people have become either initiated patent apps or become patent > > holders because they observed something with more understanding than > > they were 'supposed to' have. What a shame it would be to not have > > this kind of exchange in any organization.... > > Also very true. I know I actually spend a lot of time working with > production people helping them understand exactly how things should > work. I also work exclusively with contract manufacturers (many not of > my choosing), so that may color my view of things too. > > Matt Pobursky > Maximum Performance Systems > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

> -----Original Message----- > From: jim barchuk [SMTP:RemoveMEjbEraseMEEraseMEJBARCHUK.COM] > Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:34 PM > To: RemoveMEPICLISTspam_OUTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [OT]: Radio Shack > > Would you use an > electric lawn mower on a damp day if you knew the fuse had been replaced > with a higher rating? LOL! Think about it on a personal level and it > becomes a little more important. > Probably, as long as it was still a 'reasonable' fuse rating (i.e. not a cut down 6" nail). In this type of application the fuse in the power connector is mainly there to protect the cable. Anyone with more than 1/2 a brain would be using an RCD with any power tool anyway. Regards Mike ======================================================================= This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use, forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or services. ======================================================================= Any questions about Bookham's E-Mail service should be directed to RemoveMEpostmasterTakeThisOuTspambookham.com. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Bill, you have a point. I have done some detailed analysis of fuses, and if you count the time-current curves, tolerances, and the fact that a fuse is a thermal device, is ambient temperature sensitive, and a host of other factors, "tain't much difference one fuse from another". That said, I would NEVER advocate substituting the wrong value of fuse. Somebody who desinged that product decided that was the best value and not some other, and that person knew more about that product than I do. I would also not advocate gettting any technical info from a radio shack guy. Time was, Radio shack was a magnet for geeks. No longer, they sell more radio controlled toys than resistors. They say "Can I help you", and I stare at them, and just walk back to the nuts and bolts section. -- Lawrence Lile William Chops Westfield <EraseMEbillwspamspamBeGoneCISCO.COM> Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> 03/13/2003 05:08 PM Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list To: PICLISTSTOPspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: Subject: Re: [OT]: Radio Shack I dunno. In modern electronics, fuses generally protect against relatively catastrophic failures, and it seems pretty likely that increasing the value of a fuse by an amp or two isn't really that likely to be a terrible thing. (ie fuses are too slow to protect electronics; they primarilly protect against fires and such. Can you actually imaging a failure mode where your ~3A circuit draws more than 5A but less than 6.5A, and explain why that's particularly dangerous?) The 100mA fuse in a meter presuambly protectst the meter movement itself, right? Or maybe it stops the shunt resistor from burning up. So maybe it's more critical... BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> Haha, like guitarists that stuff the fuseholder with silver > paper from a cigarette packet > > My boss complained once that he was sick of blowing the > 1A fuse in his car stereo. "It works OK for a while but then the > stereo crackles and the fuse goes". So he stuck a 40A head- > light one in. Just before he had to start shopping around for > a new stereo A question in an exam at a local theatre technician school went something like this: You are in the middle of a show. The follow spot is plugged into a 115V outlet, the only outlet anywhere within reach. All of a sudden the light goes out. Fortunately the follow spot was masked at the time, however it will be used within about 2 minutes. A quick check reveals the fuse for the circuit has blown. A search reveals no available replacement. The only things available are a penny and a nickel. Which would you use to restore power to the circuit? The answer? NEITHER!!! Find out why the fuse blew! :) Good question, many get it wrong. TTYL -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Benjamin Bromilow wrote: > Carphone Whorehouses :) Where I live in Nottingham, Maplins are right > next to PC World. It appears Maplins is slowly turning into it's > neighbour. If you want a new mouse of some CD-Rs, no problems. [snip] There are advantages to living near the Farnell Electronics trade counter. #5 minimum order for cash sales, #10 for credit cards IIRC. And they haven't adopted the RS (RadioSpares - rshttp://www.com) "You NEED a trade account to order" philosophy. Yet. I actually tried to order a few oddball parts from RS not too long ago - STV5730s IIRC. RS: "That'll be #47.18" Me: "WHAT???" RS: "#34.19. #21.20 for the parts, #12.99 P&P" -- Phil. EraseMEphilpemEraseMEdsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

'Scuse me - an unfinished message escaped. Time to turn off Keyboard Shortcuts in Outlook... Benjamin Bromilow wrote: > Carphone Whorehouses Where I live in Nottingham, Maplins are right > next to PC World. It appears Maplins is slowly turning into it's > neighbour. If you want a new mouse of some CD-Rs, no problems. [snip] There are advantages to living near the Farnell Electronics trade counter. #5 minimum order for cash sales, #10 for credit cards IIRC. And they haven't adopted the RS (RadioSpares - rshttp://www.com) "You NEED a trade account to order" philosophy. Yet. I actually tried to order a few oddball parts from RS not too long ago - STV5730s IIRC. RS: "That'll be #34.19" Me: "WHAT???" RS: "#34.19. #21.20 for the parts, #12.99 P&P" Me: "Uh, I think I'll cancel that order. Thanks anyway." Despite what they say, it DOES NOT cost #12.99 to send a Jiffy bag with two components in a Corstat box via Royal Mail 1st Class. I've had stuff sent by Farnell via Securicor Omega and it hasn't cost that much! Later. -- Phil. @spam@philpem@spam@spam_OUTdsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Alex Kilpatrick wrote: > Are you sure? My meter (Fluke) has two possible inputs for measuring > current. One goes up to 10A (I think) and one is fused at 100 mA. If > it isn't fast enough to save the electronics, then what is it for? The fuses used in my Fluke 25 are listed on the back panel as follows: F 630mA 250V F 3A 600V F 15A 600V It looks like the 630mA is a miniature 20mm, the other two are HUGE (about an inch or so in length). Now if only I had a copy of the manual for this beast... Then again, it looks like the '25 is a '27 with a few features removed. Natch. And with a repair/calibration pricetag of #120... Later. -- Phil. spamBeGonephilpemKILLspamdsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> Alex Kilpatrick wrote: > > Are you sure? My meter (Fluke) has two possible inputs for > measuring > > current. One goes up to 10A (I think) and one is fused at > 100 mA. If > > it isn't fast enough to save the electronics, then what is it for? > The fuses used in my Fluke 25 are listed on the back panel as > follows: F 630mA 250V F 3A 600V F 15A 600V > > It looks like the 630mA is a miniature 20mm, the other two > are HUGE (about an inch or so in length). Now if only I had a > copy of the manual for this beast... Then again, it looks > like the '25 is a '27 with a few features removed. Natch. And > with a repair/calibration pricetag of #120... > Well, in mine it is definitely 100 mA (it says so on the front panel). It is a 5x20mm fuse. I found them (after much hunting) at Fry's. Alex -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.