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'[OT]: Protel or Orcad ?'
2000\08\12@022519 by Javier Grijalba

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Hi
Wich EDA (Protel, Orcad or any other) do you recommend for designing PCB´s ?
I use Orcad 9 for simulations, but it crashes very often !!
I want to choose one and be sure I made the right choice !!
Regards
Javier

{Original Message removed}

2000\08\12@034416 by Ramana

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Hi,
I have used PCAD quite some time back and I like PCAD. I have tried
evaluation model of Protel and it looks very good especially for
mulitple developers and seems to give an entire project development
solution. I dont like ORCAD.
I would also like some recomendation since I also have to buy one of
these.
rgds
ramana


{Original Message removed}

2000\08\12@044954 by Milan Pavlica (YU7AEC)

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ACCEL EDA - Legendary Tango and P-CAD, now for windows - ask me more for
availability on my spam_OUTmpavlicaTakeThisOuTspamptt.yu email

Javier Grijalba wrote:

> Hi
> Wich EDA (Protel, Orcad or any other) do you recommend for designing PCBs ?
> I use Orcad 9 for simulations, but it crashes very often !!
> I want to choose one and be sure I made the right choice !!
> Regards
> Javier
>
> {Original Message removed}
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2000\08\12@061048 by Andy Howard

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> From: "Ramana" <ramanabvspamKILLspamDANLAWINC.COM>
Hi,
I have used PCAD quite some time back and I like PCAD. I have tried
evaluation model of Protel and it looks very good especially for
mulitple developers and seems to give an entire project development
solution. I dont like ORCAD.
I would also like some recomendation since I also have to buy one of
these.
rgds
ramana



I've been going through a similar process lately and I think we'll probably
opt for Eagle. There is a board-size limited demo which can be downloaded
from http://www.cadsoft.de. There's also a large number of libraries and
user-contributed add-ins available on the site.

Others we looked at were PADS from http://www.pads.com, Ultiboard http://www.ultiboard.com
and WinDraft/WinBoard from http://www.ivex.com.

We concluded that there a large numbers of packages out there but many of
them are either underpowered hobbyist products or well featured but
over-specified for our needs. Some were just plain over-priced.

Oh yes, I forgot to mention Mentor. If you work for a money-no-object
corporation then Mentor Graphics do some very nice software suites that
costs more than my car did. http://www.mentorg.com

For our modest needs Eagle looks like the best compromise, but I'd be keen
to know what else you find as we've not made a final purchase decision yet.











.

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2000\08\12@115830 by Harold Hallikainen
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       I've been using the products from Advanced Microcomputer Systems since
they first came out a LONG time ago (the schematic capture software was
then called Cell). Before AMS, I used software from Dasoft of Berkeley,
CA on a Cromemco CP/M system.
       Anyway, I'm currently using AMS's DOS version of EZ-LOGIC and EZ-BOARD.
It works very well for my purposes, though I wish it did thermal relief
on copper flows. They have a new Windoze version that looks nice (though
it's the same look and feel of the DOS version, and the data files are
compatible). I'm currently doing a project where we have to trace out an
old board where there's no documentation (what a pain! but the pay is
good...). We are keying the netlist in using a text editor, adding parts
descriptions, then calling it the "update list". EZ-BOARD then generates
an unplaced board where all pins know their netnames. The parts can be
dragged around to the right place, a routing schedule generated (a rats
nest of the routing). As the traces are run, they are removed from the
routing schedule.
       Have a look at the demo at http://www.advancedmsinc.com/ .

Harold


On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 11:03:37 +0100 Andy Howard <.....musicaKILLspamspam.....UKONLINE.CO.UK>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\08\13@011519 by Tsvetan Usunov

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>Hi
>Wich EDA (Protel, Orcad or any other) do you recommend for designing PCB4s
?
>I use Orcad 9 for simulations, but it crashes very often !!
>I want to choose one and be sure I made the right choice !!
>Regards
>Javier

Check the design tools section on our web there are a lot of links to CAD
software, most of them provide free limited versions so you can compare
them.

Tsvetan
---
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2000\08\14@024120 by Vasile Surducan

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On Fri, 11 Aug 2000, Javier Grijalba wrote:

> Hi
> Wich EDA (Protel, Orcad or any other) do you recommend for designing PCB´s ?


 Depends on wich program you are familierized with... For example I've
made sch's with Orcad 4 and PCB's with Tango. The new versions of Orcad (
under windows ) are not much better than the oldest but some inconvenients
like automatic movements of routes with components probably are solved
now. Except you need about 900Mbyte of HD, the newest Orcad tool's don't
inspire me too much confidence. There is also a limited version of Eagle
CAD who look's nice and eat small PC resources. Many guys from piclist use
this CAD. So choose what you want...
Vasile  
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2000\08\14@051409 by Andy Jancura

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>Hi
>Wich EDA (Protel, Orcad or any other) do you
>recommend for designing PCB4s ?


Hi,

I evaluated end of 1998 some packages from low cost like Eagle to
professional systems Protel,Pads,PCad. Everything depend on what type of PCB
you need to design.

Protel 98: crashes on my P100 with 64MB all the time and I didn't know
why... Was out.

Pads: this is very good tool. But you pay for every extension module, like
Dxf, extension design rules etc. Base version has only 1600 connections. But
it has included Specctra, what may be a plus.

PCad: the same functionality like Pads, but I think for better price. Base
version has unlimited connections, dxf export, splitted power planes, online
DRC and what Pads call extended design rules.

Eagle: best low cost solution when you don't need more professionalism.


Andrej

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2000\08\14@054734 by Milan Pavlica (YU7AEC)

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Andy Jancura wrote:

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2000\08\14@065720 by Roberto Tavares

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Hi Javier

Try Eagle. http://www.cadsoftUsa.com. I´ve been using it with very good results.

   Roberto

Javier Grijalba wrote:

> Hi
> Wich EDA (Protel, Orcad or any other) do you recommend for designing PCB´s ?
> I use Orcad 9 for simulations, but it crashes very often !!
> I want to choose one and be sure I made the right choice !!
> Regards
> Javier
>
> {Original Message removed}

2000\08\14@104736 by tcrist

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FWIW,

       If you already use the schematic entry on OrCAD 9, you would be better off
to stick with OrCAD.  I've been using it since 7.1 and it has certainly
gotten better - dare I say, "good"?  Early on in release 9 I also had a lot
of crashes.  It turns out that OrCAD was very finicky about my video driver.
I changed to a Viper V770, and 95% of my crashes went away.

       I can't offer any opion on Protel.

       Good luck with your choice,

       Tim Crist
       Tritronics
>Hi
>Wich EDA (Protel, Orcad or any other) do you recommend for designing PCB4s
?
>I use Orcad 9 for simulations, but it crashes very often !!
>I want to choose one and be sure I made the right choice !!
>Regards
>Javier

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2000\08\14@141738 by Andre Abelian

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Javier,

using orcad even 9 if you copy any part and paste it in same page or any
page
it will duplicate the part without changing the part designator that
means you have 2 same parts in the schematic if the schematic is big you may
miss that and your net list will make no sense what a shame to orcad.
I even told them about this but I guess they do not care.

Andre





> FWIW,
>
>         If you already use the schematic entry on OrCAD 9, you would be
better off
> to stick with OrCAD.  I've been using it since 7.1 and it has certainly
> gotten better - dare I say, "good"?  Early on in release 9 I also had a
lot
> of crashes.  It turns out that OrCAD was very finicky about my video
driver.
> I changed to a Viper V770, and 95% of my crashes went away.
>
>         I can't offer any opion on Protel.
>
>         Good luck with your choice,
>
>         Tim Crist
>         Tritronics
> >Hi
> >Wich EDA (Protel, Orcad or any other) do you recommend for designing
PCB4s
{Quote hidden}

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2000\08\14@175742 by Plunkett, Dennis

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andre Abelian [SMTP:KILLspamengelecKILLspamspamEARTHLINK.NET]
> Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2000 4:34
> To:   RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      Re: [OT]: Protel or Orcad ?
>
> Javier,
>
> using orcad even 9 if you copy any part and paste it in same page or any
> page
> it will duplicate the part without changing the part designator that
> means you have 2 same parts in the schematic if the schematic is big you
> may
> miss that and your net list will make no sense what a shame to orcad.
> I even told them about this but I guess they do not care.
>
> Andre
>
       To fix this you anotate with all part references set to "?", then do
an unconditional annotate, and all fixed. ORCAD is designed to force you to
PICK "Approved" parts not copy from the data base.

       As for which is best?

       I agree with others on the list that ORCAD schematic capture is
great, yes there was some trobles in 9.0, with attempting to drag connection
dots, but this has been fixed and 9.1 has not crashed under schematic yet.
       As for PCB, well...

       If you have been using the windoz version of ORCAD then stick with
it, if you have been using the DOS version and are looking to update, then
take a look at the entire field


       Dennis




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2000\08\16@165335 by Phillip Vogel

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Harold Hallikainen wrote:
>
>         I've been using the products from Advanced Microcomputer Systems since
> they first came out a LONG time ago (the schematic capture software was
> then called Cell). Before AMS, I used software from Dasoft of Berkeley,
> CA on a Cromemco CP/M system.

Cool! I thought I was the only Dasoft user alive. Let's see...I remember
burning a new character generator eprom on the Altair to make beveled corners
appear on the screen. Damn. Those WERE the days. theyed send out source code
for chunks of the program so you could screw around with it all night. Patches
came about every day. Some of my code got into their release (yet another
claim to fame ;-)) That was when hacking was a good thing. Super VGA is nice,
PCI is nice, PIII is nice, PICs are cute, but sometimes you just gotta have an
8080 and switches and lights and punched tape and 8" floppies. I miss those
days.
P.
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2000\08\16@193927 by Harold M Hallikainen

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On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:52:32 -0400 Phillip Vogel <TakeThisOuTphillipEraseMEspamspam_OUTBARTAL.COM>
writes:
>
> Cool! I thought I was the only Dasoft user alive. Let's see...I
> remember
> burning a new character generator eprom on the Altair to make
> beveled corners
> appear on the screen. Damn. Those WERE the days. theyed send out
> source code
> for chunks of the program so you could screw around with it all
> night. Patches
> came about every day. Some of my code got into their release (yet
> another
> claim to fame ;-)) That was when hacking was a good thing. Super VGA
> is nice,
> PCI is nice, PIII is nice, PICs are cute, but sometimes you just
> gotta have an
> 8080 and switches and lights and punched tape and 8" floppies. I
> miss those
> days.

       When I sold the assets of my company several years ago, the new owner
dumped the old Cromemco. Let's see, I had a Heath H-19 terminal on it, a
4 MHz Z80, 128K or RAM (two S-100 boards), two 8 inch floppies and two
5.25 inch floppies. I paid $3,000 for it without the 8 inch floppies. I
had to add the 8" floppies since that was the way CP/M code was
distributed. When I bought the machine, I also got C-DOS (Cromemco's
version of CP/M), Basic, Pascal, Fortran, Cobol, RATFOR, and a few other
languages. I bought Word Star and a daisy wheel printer (another ton of
money - and a ton of printer).
       This was my first computer. Prior to it, I had been taping up boards by
hand on a light table. My products were based on the MC6802, so I used a
home built 300 bps modem to connect with the Source timesharing. I edited
my code online, ran their cross assembler, let the modem drive my Sunrise
Electroncs ZAP 80 EPROM programmer (another box that was something like
$2,000 to handle EPROMs up to 2764... I later added a toggle switch to
drive the high address line of a 27128).
       With the arrival of the Cromemco, I also bought the Avocet 6800
cross-assembler that ran under CP/M. I still have that and run it under a
CP/M emulator under DOS when I need to update that old code (that's still
running in a few hundred machines out there... Had to do a Y2K fix!).
       The Dasoft stuff wouldn't run under C-DOS, so I had to actually buy
CP/M. After messing with it for a while, I did boards for several
products. Still have the plotter (another couple kilobucks spent there).
I still have a bunch of those boards to support the products that are out
there, though I don't have the Dasoft code anymore.
       I had a chance to visit Dasoft up in Emeryville years and years ago.
They had quite a product for a while!
       Let's see... the Cromemco also ran dBase II. We did an extensive
inventory control system in that. I can still run it on my 486 here under
the CP/M emulator.
       So, I came into this a little after lights and toggle switches (though I
used to teach PDP-8 assembly code, and we had to use the toggle switches
to put the boot code (boot from punched tape!) in core and used the front
panel lights to debug our code).
       Stuff changes...

Harold




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