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'[OT]: Practical car theft schemes'
2001\10\24@092152 by Steve Nordhauser

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A friend of mine had a 240Z that was stolen in the New York area.  He
got it back because the thief decided to keep it as it was such a nice car.
The police spotted it.
After that, he would remove the fuel injection module (I think) that was
located by the passenger's feet.  Removing a necessary but obscure part
when you leave a car in a high risk area will stop everyone but the tow
trucks and vandals.

How about something that got powered from, let's say the left directional
that pulled in a latching relay that reconnected a sensor necessary to run
the car?  It would be entirely out of the normal areas that would be checked.
The car wouldn't start because the processor (I'm thinking newer cars than
my old wrecks) thought it was out of oil. The disable switch is right there but
who would think of putting on the left directional to start the car unless it
had Lucas electrical parts.  (Grudge left over from my unfortunate ownership
of a Triumph Spitfire...don't get me started).

--
Steve Nordhauser
Director of New Product Development
Imaging Systems
IEM Corp.
60 Fourth Ave.
Albany, NY 12202-1924
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Freddie says:

Date:    Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:05:47 -0700
From:    Freddie Leaf <.....freddie_leafKILLspamspam@spam@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Practical car theft schemes

> Now the GPS option - I suppose this means a dedicated cell phone buried into
> the car somewhere, with a little modem .This also means I'll have to pay $$$
> a month for a cell phone connection or account.  Seeing as I don't even have
> cell phone for my hip, I don't know how much this would cost.

Circuit Cellar Magazine did an article on tracking your vehicle after a theft
using GPS.  The article is in Circuit Cellar Magazine Issue 126 Jan. 2001 -
called "Where's Waldo ? Pinpointing Location by Interfacing with a GPS Receiver
( TF10 )".  You can get the article on-line at:
http://www.circuitcellar.com.

LAIPAC is the name of the company that makes the actual TF10 GPS unit. I also
bought their experimental board and sample PC based software.  I recommend
these tools to get you started.  The unit works great and the company is very
friendly and accommodating (I have no affiliation).   The only caution is that
the actual TF10 board uses a non-US connector, the pin spacing is not .1 inch.
I think it amy be a European connector.

http://www.laipac.com/msg4.htm

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2001\10\24@093648 by Lawrence Lile

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I'm going with the secret kill switch idea.

Now the Toyota Previa van brainbox is in a module underneath the driver's
seat.  I've heard about people hacking into the vehicle control system this
way for immobilizers and so on.  Anybody know anything about the Toyota
protocol? It'd be fun to hack into it with an old palm pilot or a PIC for an
interface.

--Lawrence


{Original Message removed}

2001\10\24@093855 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>How about something that got powered from, let's say the left directional
>that pulled in a latching relay that reconnected a sensor necessary to run
>the car?  It would be entirely out of the normal areas that would be
checked.
>The car wouldn't start because the processor (I'm thinking newer cars than
>my old wrecks) thought it was out of oil. The disable switch is right there
but
>who would think of putting on the left directional to start the car unless
it
>had Lucas electrical parts.  (Grudge left over from my unfortunate
ownership
>of a Triumph Spitfire...don't get me started).

My pick would be to use the hazard lights switch, as it would be too easy
for the thief to knock the indicator switch to the "enable" position
accidentally. This would then mean using an otherwise unused position on the
dash for the hazard lights, by fitting an accessory switch into a blank
switch position. You only seem to run out of blank positions on the highest
end cars :), and you should be able to get a suitable switch from the dealer
to go in the hole.

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2001\10\24@095905 by Martin Hill

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I have done something similar on one of my cars.  It used to be an
automatic, but has been converted to a manual, the starter inhibit switch
from the auto is now connected to a toggle switch mounted at the back of an
ashtray in the car, and the fuel pump relay requires the front fog lights to
be turned on (removed the front fog lights when I changed the front
spoiler).  So unless somebody fancies poking around in an ashtray to find a
hidden switch, it won't be going anywhere.

Martin

{Original Message removed}

2001\10\24@105010 by dale

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face
> who would think of putting on the left directional to start the car unless it
> had Lucas electrical parts.  (Grudge left over from my unfortunate ownership
> of a Triumph Spitfire...don't get me started).

I'm sorry, but I have to say it:

"Please send again, I have a Lucas modem!"

8-D

Dale
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A train stops at a train station.  A bus stops at a bus station.
On my desk I have a workstation...

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2001\10\24@114947 by Dylan Hillier

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A reponse from a PIC and Electronics Newbie.. lol....

Maybe a bit far fetched but here goes.

Remove the ingition key, just have a changable switch. So as to select AC,
On, Start etc.. I think honda s2000 has such a switch???

Open up your kick panel and pull out your ECU. Open your ECU and see if its
got the facility to attach.
a daughterboard.

- Take out old ROM, copy it to an EPROM
- Make a new daughterboard with an EPROM socket and a PIC socket
- Design the daughterboard so that the PIC must verify something first
before enabling the ECU to function.
   IE: Thumb scanner or smart card.
- If it gets verified PIC will enable the EPROM and away you go.
- If not i think they will scratch their heads for a long time and car will
not start.



Dylan.

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2001\10\25@095913 by Steve Nordhauser

picon face
One of the most practical things someone mentioned in this thread
was to enable the car for a minute or two and then kill it.  It will
allow the thief enough time to get the car into a public place (like a
highway) before killing the engine.  No one will take the time to pull
the radio or vandalize it in the middle of an intersection.  You will
get an occasional call from the police to come pick up your car.

--
Steve Nordhauser
Director of New Product Development
Imaging Systems
IEM Corp.
60 Fourth Ave.
Albany, NY 12202-1924
digitalspamKILLspamnycap.rr.com  http://www.iem.net
Phone: (518) 449-5504x21  Fax: (518) 449-5567

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2001\10\25@102418 by Lawrence Lile

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Another idea I was thinking about was in terms of stereo theft.  You can get
a cheap digital camera now for under $50 (jamcam)  they are very low
resolution and only hold a few pictures, but you'd only need ONE of the
thief!  IIRC these things should be IR sensitive, and an IR illuminator is
easy to cook up.  If there is a reliable way to determine that your stereo
is being lifted, such as a nice wire soldered to the case of it, which
triggers something when broken, then you could have your PIC start
triggering the camera as fast as it will shoot.  Hide the camera in the dash
somewhere, and use IR diodes instead of a flash.  I've got one of these toy
digital cameras (quality is terrible) I wonder if it is very hackable?

Maybe also trigger the thing from your alarm system.  If someone attempts to
start the car without engaging the secret kill switch, then Smile! you're on
Candid Camera!

I'm also planning to replace my missing car stereo with something no thief
would want.  Where the hole in the dash sits now, I'll probably put a patch
bay, and hide an amplifier back in there somewhere.  Then I can play any
input source that's handy, either from a portable CD player, or a portable
cassette player (I've already got them hacked to run on 12V).  or both, to
two sets of headphones, one for the headbanger in the back seat and another
for the saner parents in the front......




--Lawrence

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2001\10\25@104713 by D Lloyd

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part 1 1879 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi,

There might be a legal issue on this one........if someone steals your car
then it cuts out causing a major accident (maybe resulting in death), you
will probably get someone trying to sue you for it.......daft though it
sounds.

Would a better solution to be have the car start but run like a dog (maybe
by interfering with the electronic pickup for the ignition causing
misfiring) thus making it pretty obvious to the thief that they would get
nowhere fast? If I leave my car in a dodgy place, I usually swap over  a
couple of plug leads (not many thiefs can memorise the firing order then be
bothered to correct it); even if it did start it would run like a pig.

Dan





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Subject:  Re: [OT]: Practical car theft schemes

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One of the most practical things someone mentioned in this thread
was to enable the car for a minute or two and then kill it.  It will
allow the thief enough time to get the car into a public place (like a
highway) before killing the engine.  No one will take the time to pull
the radio or vandalize it in the middle of an intersection.  You will
get an occasional call from the police to come pick up your car.

--
Steve Nordhauser
Director of New Product Development
Imaging Systems
IEM Corp.
60 Fourth Ave.
Albany, NY 12202-1924
KILLspamdigitalKILLspamspamnycap.rr.com  http://www.iem.net
Phone: (518) 449-5504x21  Fax: (518) 449-5567

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part 2 165 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream; (decode)

part 3 144 bytes
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2001\10\25@111214 by Simon Stirley

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There's a circuit to do that to the LT side of the ignition circuit in a 20
year old '555' book that I've got somewhere ! uses a hidden switch somewhere
to de-activate it. I used to have a relay operated by the hydraulic circuit
tester button in an old Mini, this had to be held in order for the starter
motor to operate. Effective in its obscurity :)

Simon.

> {Original Message removed}

2001\10\25@161826 by t F. Touchton

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How about a system that locked the doors, rolled up the windows, and
disabled the controls for the windows and doors once the theif was inside.
Start blasting the horn, flash the lights, stereo at full volume.... You
could also cut out the ignition .

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2001\10\26@050721 by Ward, David

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In the UK advice can be had from

http://www.secureyourmotor.gov.uk



David F H Ward
Electronics Design Engineer
Sira Electro-Optics Ltd, South Hill, Chislehurst, Kent, UK, BR7 5EH
Tel: +44(0)20 8467 2636, Fax: +44(0)20 8467 6515
email: RemoveMEDavid_WardTakeThisOuTspamsiraeo.co.uk
http://www.siraeo.co.uk



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The views of the author may not necessarily constitute the views of
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in any contract or obligation.








{Original Message removed}

2001\10\26@130435 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
I don't know about digital cameras but you could put one of those use-once
still cameras in the dash somewhere. Perhaps detach the flash and put it
somewhere else (ceiling light ?) so if he decides to wreck it he will
wreck the flash and the camera will remain whole.

I can see a centralized system where each car has a $100 system with a
camera and a TV transmitter that goes on air and sends two or three frames
of the driver if someone breaks into the car and sets off the alarm. A
central site would record these blips on tape. If you phone in the car
theft they look it up on tape or computer and send a photo of mr. villain
directly to the police. The blips could repeat at certain intervals to
allow tracing. This is very do-able imho. Tx power should be <2W UHF for
an urban setting. Probably send video using FM or some digital modulation
that resists multipath.

Meanwhile those of you who are hams can do this legally. Put an ISD chip
and a UHF handheld in the car and have it send 'I am XXXXX's transceiver
in his stolen car. Please call him' (obviously using a more ham lingo).
Then all you'll need is to df the car. A longish tone recorded to fill the
ISD device would help with this (ham df equipment is not normally able to
df pulses or short transmissions afaik). Dave VanHorn, does your APRS work
when the car is turned on or do you turn it on by hand ? What's the basic
investment to get APRS in a car ? Can they tell you're a ham because they
can't see the car roof for the antennas ? <g> Is the GPS receiver antenna
mounted in a visible radome that can be smashed ?

Peter

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'[OT]: Practical car theft schemes'
2001\11\03@165259 by Mik Juneau Kim
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How about having a broken gas gauge that always reads empty and have poor ignition system that requires 10 seconds of cranking? They will think the car is out of gas.

Also, use $20 boombox instead of a car stereo. It's working so far.

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