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'[OT]: Poll: Jury duty attitude'
2006\02\03@103701 by Darrell Wyatt

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Why pay to keep him locked up?
What possible contribution to society could
be realized by keeping this guy alive?  He was
a predator, now he's a parasite.
If there's absolute proof, I say Terminate.
But that's just me...
D.




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>

2006\02\03@104426 by Danny Sauer

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Pedro wrote regarding 'RES: [OT]:  Poll: Jury duty attitude' on Fri, Feb 03 at 09:40:
> Not like dead, unfortunately. There is a possibility of him running away
> from prison.

Ahh, for the days when the state could mandate castration...

--Danny, whose wife has a mentally ill relative who was castrated by
the state

2006\02\03@105728 by Mark Jordan

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       That is exactly what I mean!
       The guy is a predator, so he deserves to be eliminated.
       He is unable to live in society.
       He is contributing nothing for the well being of the human race,
loose or jailed.

       Mark


On 3 Feb 2006 at 10:36, Darrell Wyatt wrote:

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> >-

2006\02\03@111500 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> If there's absolute proof, I say Terminate.

The problem with terms like 'absolute' is that they can be misleading.
If you mean absolute in the mathematical sense: there is no such thing
in the real world, much less in the courtroom. Hence requiring
matehmatical absolute proof would yield zero convictions. Instead we
make do with an acceptable rate of false convictions, and we rely on
later corrections to reduce this error rate. But a later correction
(which can come very late, check for instance birmingham four) can be
too late when the final penalty has been applied... You are of course
free to think this is an acceptable consequence of a cheaper penal
system, others are free to disagree.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\02\03@111947 by Bob Axtell

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Mark Jordan wrote:

>That is exactly what I mean!
>        The guy is a predator, so he deserves to be eliminated.
>        He is unable to live in society.
>        He is contributing nothing for the well being of the human race,
>loose or jailed.
>
>        Mark
>  
>

er... sorry... I thought you were a bleeding heart or something....
I totally agree. But rape is not a capital offense in AZ.

--Bob

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2006\02\03@112905 by D. Jay Newman

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> Why pay to keep him locked up?
> What possible contribution to society could
> be realized by keeping this guy alive?  He was
> a predator, now he's a parasite.
> If there's absolute proof, I say Terminate.
> But that's just me...

Given the US legal system *and* the burden of absolute proof, it's
probably cheaper to keep him locked up.
--
D. Jay Newman           ! Author of:
.....jayKILLspamspam.....sprucegrove.com     ! _Linux Robotics: Building Smarter Robots_
http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! (Now I can get back to building robots.)

2006\02\03@144914 by Kevin

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On Fri, 3 Feb 2006, D. Jay Newman wrote:

> > Why pay to keep him locked up?
> > What possible contribution to society could
> > be realized by keeping this guy alive?  He was
> > a predator, now he's a parasite.
> > If there's absolute proof, I say Terminate.
> > But that's just me...
>
> Given the US legal system *and* the burden of absolute proof, it's
> probably cheaper to keep him locked up.
> --

My brother is a policeman and they are taught that it is TEN
times cheaper to keep someone in prison for life, than it is
to put them to death.  All those appeals, last minute pleas,
etc... add up to lots and lots of money. At least for the
U.S., that is.

~Kevin

2006\02\03@151313 by Danny Sauer

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Kevin wrote regarding 'Re: [OT]: Poll: Jury duty attitude' on Fri, Feb
03 at 13:55:
> My brother is a policeman and they are taught that it is TEN times
> cheaper to keep someone in prison for life, than it is to put them
> to death.  All those appeals, last minute pleas, etc... add up to
> lots and lots of money. At least for the U.S., that is.

If prisons were properly funded, I'm sure the balance would start
shifting the other way.  Besides, I'm paying for the judge to be a
judge, the DA to be a DA, and a public defender to be a public
defender whether working on a death row appeal, yet another DUI, or
extorting money from me because I was speeding on an unpopulated
county road. :) So I'm not sure that the appeals process really
"costs" me anything additional [as a US taxpayer].

But, whatever it takes to get cops motivated, I suppose. :)

--Danny, convinced that 92.6% of statistics are misleading

2006\02\03@151438 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 02:49 PM 2/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I wonder how those alternatives (life in prison vs. execution)
compare cost-wise with the culprit being killed by a policeman
(presumably there would be investigation costs associated with the latter,
but rather seldom full-blown legal activity).

>Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
EraseMEspeffspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTinterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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2006\02\03@170018 by Darrell Wyatt

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Our system was designed with protection of the innocent taking
precedence over convicting the guilty....I would personally rather
see a guilty person go free than an innocent convicted.  Unfortunately,
as with many ideals of our founding fathers, the system has been
manipulated to perverse extremes.

Semantically, you are absolutely correct.

I should have stated "Proven beyond a reasonable doubt"....but that
can be vague at times, unfortunately.



D.





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>

2006\02\03@170244 by Darrell Wyatt

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Maybe a few months in a high security prison would open the eyes
of the people making that determination....
D.




>er... sorry... I thought you were a bleeding heart or something....
>I totally agree. But rape is not a capital offense in AZ.
>
>--Bob

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2006\02\03@173449 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 05:02 PM 2/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
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>k13M2qek020145
>
>
>Maybe a few months in a high security prison would open the eyes
>of the people making that determination....
>D.

Or maybe it would open their eyes to the shameful human rights abuses that
can take place under those conditions. I really don't see why
apparently otherwise decent people think this is a big joke. It's not, and
society no doubt pays for it when these people get out. Maybe some situation
like that is where the creep in question learned to like abusing other people.

>Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
RemoveMEspeffTakeThisOuTspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com




2006\02\04@100113 by Russell McMahon

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> Why pay to keep him locked up?
> What possible contribution to society could
> be realized by keeping this guy alive?  He was
> a predator, now he's a parasite.
> If there's absolute proof, I say Terminate.
> But that's just me...

A significant part of what separates a worthwhile society from those
who are not worthy to live in it is that the society acts very
discernibly different from the unworthy, even under the most extreme
of provocation. When this fails to be the case there is the gravest of
risks that of the two groups becoming increasingly less
distinguishable with time.

If I may stray relevantly. This will cause problems if not handled
well. Lets see how well such a demanding subject can be dealt with
here. (Not too many expectations alas, but ...). The above applies not
only to civil/police situations but also to how a country is prepared
to act in dealing with threats or perceived threats to itself. When a
'worthwhile' country starts accommodating "black activities",
assassinations, torture and more then it starts down the path to being
like those who oppose it. There are always isolated exceptions - the
trick is to ensure that when such are discovered they are eliminated
and it is made clear that 'covert' acts are not tolerable. The US has
been in this position with eg assassination in the past and with
torture more recently and has on several past occasions risen to the
challenge. Sadly it appears that it is failing to do so recently, with
allegations not being plausibly denied that it is transporting
prisoners to countries that use methods of 'information retrieval'
that would be unconstitutional within the US and contrary to law and
general public acceptance.

A fair measure of "acceptable" is - 'How unhappy would I be if these
methods were used on my friends/children/parents/wide/self ? "



       Russell McMahon


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