I am considering buing/building an oscilloscope for use with general
electronics and PIC development, strictly on a hobby basis. I suppose the
cheaoes alternative would be a PC 'based' oscilloscope. Anyone have
recommendations?
>I am considering buing/building an oscilloscope for use with general
>electronics and PIC development, strictly on a hobby basis. I suppose the
>cheaoes alternative would be a PC 'based' oscilloscope. Anyone have
>recommendations?
Considering you live in USA, the cheapest/best alternative would be a cheap 20MHz osciloscope, or an used one. You can find used scopes in magazines like Nuts'n'Volts (the most k-rad magazine I've ever seen! :oD)for less than $100. Considering all the problems you'll have to make a good scope in PC, It's better to buy one.
Well, I live in Norway, so I'm afraid thats not a really good option.
Anyway, when I wrote 'build', I was thinking of one of the many kits
available everywhere..
> Hi
>
> I am considering buing/building an oscilloscope for use with general
> electronics and PIC development, strictly on a hobby basis. I suppose the
> cheaoes alternative would be a PC 'based' oscilloscope. Anyone have
> recommendations?
I just bought an older, but very nice 100Mhz dual-channel delayed-sweep Tek
465 scope on eBay for $200.00. I feel that this is _excellent_ value.
I have one of these as one of my scopes - bought a few years ago at similar
price. My one is possibly around 20 years old. An excellent scope in its
time but it's now getting decidedly flaky. I suspect an evening spent
replacing every electrolytic cap in sight may well have major benefits,
maybe not. I have all manuals with circuit diagrams which is a welcome
bonus.
To keep more on topic, Practical Electronics have just published a
simple PC scope using a 16F877 - it's only low spec (about 10KHz or so),
but it's double beam and nice and simple. It uses the 16F877, a 32kB
static RAM, and an op-amp, it connects via the PC parallel port and all
the software can be downloaded for free.
--
Nigel.
/--------------------------------------------------------------\
| Nigel Goodwin | Internet : nigelgspam_OUTlpilsley.co.uk |
| Lower Pilsley | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.co.uk |
| Chesterfield | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit |
| England | Ju Jitsu |
\--------------------------------------------------------------/
> In message <002901c01b84$dbef4ce0$@spam@b5cc1440KILLspamsciencekit.com>, Bob Ammerman
> <KILLspamRAMMERMANKILLspamPRODIGY.NET> writes
> >I just bought an older, but very nice 100MHz dual-channel delayed-sweep Tek
> >465 scope on eBay for $200.00. I feel that this is _excellent_ value.
>
Bob, that means 200 USD point and no more?
> To keep more on topic, Practical Electronics have just published a
> simple PC scope using a 16F877 - it's only low spec (about 10KHz or so),
> but it's double beam and nice and simple. It uses the 16F877, a 32kB
> static RAM, and an op-amp, it connects via the PC parallel port and all
> the software can be downloaded for free.
> --
>
Hi Nigel,
May we see the article? there is a web address somewhere?
I have found a used Leader LBO 516 (100Mhz, 2(3?) channel, ) that I can have
cheap. I have also found a LBO 518 a little more expensive.. Can anyone tell
me the difference between these scopes, and also if these are 'good' scopes?
I am very fresh to this stuff, so any advice would be appreciated.
From the manual of the 516:
"High-fidelity pulse response, stable operation, dual timebase with
calibrated sweep delay, flexible triggering facilities, and a bright CRT
display with illuminated internal graticule. Moreover, it also has a very
unusual feature found on few scopes in any price class: It can
simultaneously display up to eight traces from three different input
signals. In addition to the two vertical-input channels and their difference
signal, the signals used to externally trigger the main timebases can appear
on the CRT display."
Leader is a very long established brand and have been "OK" or better.
ANY 100 MHz scope has had to have some effort put into it and should be a
good scope. Some will of course be better than others.
Generally, by the time you get to 100 MHz bandwidth you have a dear enough
scope that it has had many other minor but nice features included.
Of course with any brand, specific models MAY have specific nasty points
that I am unaware of but if the price was OK an older 100 MHz scope should
still be a useful tool. Availability of parts MAY be an issue depending on
whether its cheap enough to use until it dies and then walk away or not.
I have a maybe 20 year old Tectronix 465 which is a lovely scope but has got
to the needing an overhaul stage.
Trigger view feature can occasionally be very useful.
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Nigel Goodwin wrote:
>
> > In message <002901c01b84$dbef4ce0$TakeThisOuTb5cc1440EraseMEspam_OUTsciencekit.com>, Bob Ammerman
> > <RemoveMERAMMERMANTakeThisOuTPRODIGY.NET> writes
> > >I just bought an older, but very nice 100MHz dual-channel delayed-sweep
Tek
> > >465 scope on eBay for $200.00. I feel that this is _excellent_ value.
> >
> Bob, that means 200 USD point and no more?
Yes, exactly $200.00 USD and not a penny more. (except that I then bought 2
brand new probes for about $60 and the full service manual for $50 :-) )
Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)
>
> > To keep more on topic, Practical Electronics have just published a
> > simple PC scope using a 16F877 - it's only low spec (about 10KHz or so),
> > but it's double beam and nice and simple. It uses the 16F877, a 32kB
> > static RAM, and an op-amp, it connects via the PC parallel port and all
> > the software can be downloaded for free.
> > --
> >
> Hi Nigel,
> May we see the article? there is a web address somewhere?
>
> Another interesting DSO ( about 5MHz analog bandwith ) can be seen at
> http://www.ozemail.com.au/~dljones
>
> Vasile
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
> ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.
I also have a bitscope (http://www.bitscope.com) and find it works well. It can be
built from your own parts or you can buy it as a kit form or fully
assembled. Schematics are available at the site.
The nice thing about it (besides being PIC driven) is that it is both logic
(8 channels) and analog (2 channels), something most scopes cant handle.
Analog and digital are sampled simultaneously at 25 MHz max. With
subsampling you can go up to around 100 MHz. A faster ADC is also now
available at 40 MHz.
Software is getting better for it. I am doing some work on this. Down
loads and screen shots can be found at http://www.cyberus.ca/~g_will
Radio Shack was blowing out their "probe scope" line last year or so ago for
$28 USD. I think it's a remarked OZZI FOX handheld scope. I bought a
couple thinking they'd be fun to just tinker with, but they are suprisingly
useful. You might check around for really old stock. (long gone in my
area, but maybe still around in yours.)
In message <Pine.LNX.4.20.0009110808250.11091-100000EraseME.....L30.itim-cj.ro>,>
Vasile Surducan <EraseMEvasileL30.ITIM-CJ.RO> writes
>> To keep more on topic, Practical Electronics have just published a
>> simple PC scope using a 16F877 - it's only low spec (about 10KHz or so),
>> but it's double beam and nice and simple. It uses the 16F877, a 32kB
>> static RAM, and an op-amp, it connects via the PC parallel port and all
>> the software can be downloaded for free.
>> --
>>
> Hi Nigel,
> May we see the article? there is a web address somewhere?
Their website is http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk but they don't publish
their articles online - except they are available to buy online, via a
URL in the USA, which has a link from their UK site. It looks quite a
fun project, and I'm considering building one to play with!.
--
Nigel.
/--------------------------------------------------------------\
| Nigel Goodwin | Internet : RemoveMEnigelgEraseMEEraseMElpilsley.co.uk |
| Lower Pilsley | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.co.uk |
| Chesterfield | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit |
| England | Ju Jitsu |
\--------------------------------------------------------------/
> >> To keep more on topic, Practical Electronics have just published a
> >> simple PC scope using a 16F877 - it's only low spec (about 10KHz or so),
> >> but it's double beam and nice and simple. It uses the 16F877, a 32kB
> >> static RAM, and an op-amp, it connects via the PC parallel port and all
> >> the software can be downloaded for free.
> >> --
> >>
> > Hi Nigel,
> > May we see the article? there is a web address somewhere?
>
> Their website is http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk but they don't publish
> their articles online - except they are available to buy online, via a
> URL in the USA, which has a link from their UK site. It looks quite a
> fun project, and I'm considering building one to play with!.
> --
>
> Nigel.
>
BTW Elektor Electronics (similar set up as PE) have just published a
2 Ch oscilloscope board for a GameBoy (Oct 2000).
Very nice, 1 Msps, FFT, 50mV to 10V/Div input with PC link for data
transfer.
>>I am considering buing/building an oscilloscope for use with general
>>electronics and PIC development, strictly on a hobby basis. I suppose the
>>cheaoes alternative would be a PC 'based' oscilloscope. Anyone have
>>recommendations?
>
From a practical viewpoint, you need to realize that with a digital
scope, you have to sample at least 8-to-10 times per period of the
"fastest" signal you want to measure, to get an adequate graphical
display.
So, even if you get one of the fastest, cheapo digital scopes available,
ones that sample up to 20 Msps, so they will only work well with
signals up to 2 Mhz or so. Beyond that, the signal fidelity really
starts to suffer. And if you sample a 10 Mhz signal at 20 Msps,
ie the Nyquist rate, the signal will look like total garbage.
The cheapo scopes have their uses - some have fancy triggering,
freeze-frame and overlay capability, built-in spectrum analyzers,
additional signal processing, etc, but you have to understand
their limitation --> mainly speed.
A good strategy might be to try to get a used 100 Mhz "analog"
scope for high-speed stuff - you should be able to find one in
the $200 USD range - in addition to one of the handheld varieties
for fancier processing of slower signal, like those from embedded
systems.
Note - to get the equivalent of a 100 Mhz analog, a digital scope
would have to sample at 500-1000 Msps, and would cost $5000-10000 USD.
> > Note - to get the equivalent of a 100 Mhz analog, a digital scope
> > would have to sample at 500-1000 Msps, and would cost $5000-10000 USD.
>
> I bought a brand new Tektronix TDS210 (1GS/s, 60MHz bandwidth) for $1700
> Australian (about $1000 US), in Australia.
>
> Bane Jakovljevic
>
Likewise, the TDS220 supports 1GS/s with a 100MHz analog bandwidth, and
sells for under US$2000.
>I bought a brand new Tektronix TDS210 (1GS/s, 60MHz bandwidth) for $1700
>Australian (about $1000 US), in Australia.
Yesterday had the nice new Tek TDS7000 series demonstrated. Price?
£16300 (approx) for the 10GS/s 1GHz version without any probes
£13000 (approx) for the 5GS/s 500MHz version with 4x 500MHz probes
pricing is done this way as 1GHz probes are of the order of £1400 each!!!
current exchange rate is about US$1.4 to £1, making it nearly US$23,000 for the 1GHz version. Must admit it did cause the mouth to water a bit.
Pity it cannot probe inside that PIC chip....
> > Note - to get the equivalent of a 100 Mhz analog, a digital scope
> > would have to sample at 500-1000 Msps, and would cost $5000-10000 USD.
>
> I bought a brand new Tektronix TDS210 (1GS/s, 60MHz bandwidth) for $1700
> Australian (about $1000 US), in Australia.
Yeah, and I only paid $1600USD for my TDS220, which is the 100 Mhz version
of the '210.
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