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'[OT]: NZ polies'
2000\09\24@202830 by Plunkett, Dennis

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25/9/2000

Without Lange, you would not have had "Rodgernomics!" From the outside this
seems to be one of the best things that occurec in NZ.

From the other side of the pond

Dennis





> {Original Message removed}

2000\09\25@090020 by Russell McMahon

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>Without Lange, you would not have had "Rodgernomics!" From the outside this
>seems to be one of the best things that occurec in NZ.
>
>>From the other side of the pond
>


From this side of the pond you'll find many with few kind words to say for
Rogernomics.
But then, you knew that :-)

RM

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2000\09\25@090239 by Andrew Kunz

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Dennis,

What are "Rodgernomics"?  Similar to the Reaganomics that revitalized the US
economy?

Andy










"Plunkett, Dennis" <spam_OUTdplunkettTakeThisOuTspamAIRINTER.COM.AU> on 09/24/2000 08:27:06 PM

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Subject: Re: [OT]: NZ polies








25/9/2000

Without Lange, you would not have had "Rodgernomics!" From the outside this
seems to be one of the best things that occurec in NZ.

From the other side of the pond

Dennis





> {Original Message removed}

2000\09\25@163817 by Plunkett, Dennis

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26/9/2000


Rodgernomics

"Rodger economics" was a very bad period for the people in NZ. It was a time
of axe wheedling sell everything that the government owns to privet
enterprise. This at the time was a good deal as NZ was in dire straits of
becoming not just a Banana republic, but a "fruit salad". While Rodger had
some great ideas that pulled NZ out of the potential gloom of economic
demise, he certainly crossed that fine line between exocentric and
brilliant. This was discovered by the then PM when rodger wanted to sell off
all the roads and playing fields.
When you look at it from the outside you can laugh at what went on, but it
is a gentle reminder to all, that the government is there for the people and
is charged with looking after the farm and to make improvements, not to sell
it off to the highest bidder


Dennis



> {Original Message removed}

2000\09\25@164441 by xandinho

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>When you look at it from the outside you can laugh at what went on, but it
>is a gentle reminder to all, that the government is there for the people and
>is charged with looking after the farm and to make improvements, not to sell
>it off to the highest bidder

       No laughs here, In Brazil is the same, and I live there :oP


--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

       All the best!!!
       Alexandre Souza
       .....xandinhoKILLspamspam.....interlink.com.br

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2000\09\25@175604 by Dan Michaels

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Plunkett, Dennis wrote:
>
>Rodgernomics
>
>"Rodger economics" was a very bad period for the people in NZ. It was a time
>of axe wheedling sell everything that the government owns to privet
>enterprise. This at the time was a good deal as NZ was in dire straits of
>becoming not just a Banana republic, but a "fruit salad". While Rodger had
>some great ideas that pulled NZ out of the potential gloom of economic
>demise, he certainly crossed that fine line between exocentric and
>brilliant. This was discovered by the then PM when rodger wanted to sell off
>all the roads and playing fields.
>When you look at it from the outside you can laugh at what went on, but it
>is a gentle reminder to all, that the government is there for the people and
>is charged with looking after the farm and to make improvements, not to sell
>it off to the highest bidder
>


Well, then, the way you describe it --> it is exactly like Reaganomics.
Was it circa early 80s, and also led to massive deficits in NZ? Or
more recent, and leading to your current ~50% dollar devaluation?

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2000\09\25@203813 by steve

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> >"Rodger economics" was a very bad period for the people in NZ. It was a time
> >of axe wheedling sell everything that the government owns to privet
> >enterprise.
>
> Well, then, the way you describe it --> it is exactly like Reaganomics.
> Was it circa early 80s, and also led to massive deficits in NZ? Or
> more recent, and leading to your current ~50% dollar devaluation?

That would be about right. But it's only half the story. Prior to
Roger, we had a very protected economy with lots of tariffs,
subsidies, etc and this had been taken to the extreme by the previous
PM (piggy) with a wage & price freeze.
Roger says this is all wrong and businesses (and economies) should
run on their own merit rather than artificially through trade
sanctions. Let's go free market. And so it was.
The "yuppies" had a field day. There was a huge amount of
speculation in shares, currencies, buildings, you name it. Then it
all came to an abrupt end with the share market crash in the late
eighties. NZ got hit really hard because there wasn't the resources
to back up the money that the yuppies had been playing with.

Meantime, down on the farm....With all the subsidies gone (almost
overnight) the farmers and manufacturers either got their act
together and became more efficient or went belly-up.
So at the end of the day NZ was in a position to compete and
survive in a world wide free market.
The only catch is that there isn't one. While the "idea" is fine,
it's a bit niave for a little country in the South Pacific to lead
the way while the large economies continue to use tariffs and
subsidies. It's like sending drug free athletes to a Romanian
weight-lifting contest.

Steve.

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2000\09\25@220422 by Dan Michaels

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Steve Baldwin wrote:
>> >"Rodger economics" was a very bad period for the people in NZ. It was a time
>> >of axe wheedling sell everything that the government owns to privet
>> >enterprise.
>>
>> Well, then, the way you describe it --> it is exactly like Reaganomics.
>> Was it circa early 80s, and also led to massive deficits in NZ? Or
>> more recent, and leading to your current ~50% dollar devaluation?
>
>That would be about right. But it's only half the story. Prior to
>Roger, we had a very protected economy with lots of tariffs,
..........
>Roger says this is all wrong and businesses (and economies) should
>run on their own merit rather than artificially through trade
..........
>The "yuppies" had a field day. There was a huge amount of
>speculation in shares, currencies, buildings, you name it. Then it
...........
>Meantime, down on the farm....With all the subsidies gone (almost
>overnight) the farmers and manufacturers either got their act
>together and became more efficient or went belly-up.


Good story, Steve, sounds like the US in the 80s. "Deregulation"
became the Reagonomics "mantra". Speculators went nuts. Ultimately
led to $500+ Million S&L [savings and loan] gov't bailout resulting
from bribes and kickbacks and gross speculations and S&Ls selling
land to developers at overly-inflated values and loaning them the
money to buy it. Then the bubble burst.

Similar things in airlines and farming too. I suspect your Roger
learned his trade studying our Reagan. [un]Luckily, Reagan gave
these massive tax cuts which led to enormous budget deficits which
helped buoy up the shambles created otherwise. Our nat'l debt now
is larger than the combined economies of about 95% of the world.
================


>So at the end of the day NZ was in a position to compete and
>survive in a world wide free market.
>The only catch is that there isn't one. While the "idea" is fine,
>it's a bit niave for a little country in the South Pacific to lead
>the way while the large economies continue to use tariffs and
>subsidies. It's like sending drug free athletes to a Romanian
>weight-lifting contest.
>

Yeah, difference is American economy was large enough to swallow
the bubble, and recover in the 90s. Apparently not so good for NZ,
or Japan either for that matter. OTOH we are coming back around
the wheel again.

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2000\09\25@230344 by Dan Michaels

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I wrote:
...........
>Good story, Steve, sounds like the US in the 80s. "Deregulation"
>became the Reagonomics "mantra". Speculators went nuts. Ultimately
>led to $500+ Million S&L [savings and loan] gov't bailout resulting
>from bribes and kickbacks and gross speculations and S&Ls selling
............

Whoops, what a whopper --> it was $500+ "Billion" bailout

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2000\09\26@003346 by steve

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> I suspect your Roger
> learned his trade studying our Reagan.

I don't know who begat who, although I can imagine them both  sitting
round an empty bottle of scotch saying "that'll be a bit of a laugh,
let's give it a go". Maggy Thatcher probably bought the scotch.

You reminded me of a saying from around that era ....
"America has Ronald Reagan, Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Stevie Wonder.
New Zealand has Rob Muldoon, no cash, no hope and no bloody
wonder."

Steve.
======================================================
Steve Baldwin                Electronic Product Design
TLA Microsystems Ltd         Microcontroller Specialists
PO Box 15-680, New Lynn      http://www.tla.co.nz
Auckland, New Zealand        ph  +64 9 820-2221
email: EraseMEstevebspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTtla.co.nz      fax +64 9 820-1929
======================================================

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2000\09\26@010808 by Dan Michaels

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Steve Baldwin wrote:
>> I suspect your Roger
>> learned his trade studying our Reagan.
>
>I don't know who begat who, although I can imagine them both  sitting
>round an empty bottle of scotch saying "that'll be a bit of a laugh,
>let's give it a go". Maggy Thatcher probably bought the scotch.
>


Speaking of "laughs" [double entente], this is exactly how Reagonomics
is supposed to have been created. Rayguns was at the political
convention, sitting in a cafe, and some obscure economist named Dr.
Laugher came up and drew the "Laugher Curve" on a napkin. Rayguns
saw it as good, and adopted it. Thus, trickle-down Reagonimics was
born. Steal from the middle class, give to the rich, and it'll
trickle on down to the poor. We've all been laughing ever since,
Laugher Curve, good joke - ha, ha.
====================


>You reminded me of a saying from around that era ....
>"America has Ronald Reagan, Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Stevie Wonder.
>New Zealand has Rob Muldoon, no cash, no hope and no bloody
>wonder."
>

Good one.

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2000\09\26@032617 by Jinx

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> as good, and adopted it. Thus, trickle-down Reagonimics was
> born. Steal from the middle class, give to the rich, and it'll
> trickle on down to the poor. We've all been laughing ever since,

What is it you think the rich and powerful are trickling down on you
Mr Michaels ? <VBG>

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2000\09\26@072247 by Russell McMahon

picon face
>saw it as good, and adopted it. Thus, trickle-down Reagonimics was
>born. Steal from the middle class, give to the rich, and it'll
>trickle on down to the poor. We've all been laughing ever since,

While we are so gloriously OT -

The "trickle down" theory has never (as far as I know)(BIMBW) been espoused
seriously by anyone ever.
rather, it is a weapon created by the opponents of those who are claimed to
propose it to beat and lampoon the claimed proposers with.
And quite a good weapon it is to allow you to rail against your foes:-)


RM

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2000\09\26@072301 by Russell McMahon

picon face
>saw it as good, and adopted it. Thus, trickle-down Reagonimics was
>born. Steal from the middle class, give to the rich, and it'll
>trickle on down to the poor. We've all been laughing ever since,

While we are so gloriously OT -

The "trickle down" theory has never (as far as I know)(BIMBW) been espoused
seriously by anyone ever.
rather, it is a weapon created by the opponents of those who are claimed to
propose it to beat and lampoon the claimed proposers with.
And quite a good weapon it is to allow you to rail against your foes:-)

But,then, I've never heard of the Laugher curve so perhaps someone was in
fact silly enough to seriously suggest this.


RM

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2000\09\26@075029 by Andrew Kunz

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from bribes and kickbacks and gross speculations and S&Ls selling
>land to developers at overly-inflated values and loaning them the
>money to buy it. Then the bubble burst.

For those who need a frame of reference, Dan's referring to WHITEWATER LAND
DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION.  It was owned in part of Gov & Mrs Clinton and several
of their (now dead) friends, among others.

>Similar things in airlines and farming too. I suspect your Roger
>learned his trade studying our Reagan. [un]Luckily, Reagan gave
>these massive tax cuts which led to enormous budget deficits which
>helped buoy up the shambles created otherwise. Our nat'l debt now
>is larger than the combined economies of about 95% of the world.

And shrinking fast, thanks in large part to the tight pursestrings that the
current and previous Congresses have held to.

Andy

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2000\09\26@113746 by Dan Michaels

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Jinxaroonie wrote:
>> as good, and adopted it. Thus, trickle-down Reagonimics was
>> born. Steal from the middle class, give to the rich, and it'll
>> trickle on down to the poor. We've all been laughing ever since,
>
>What is it you think the rich and powerful are trickling down on you
>Mr Michaels ? <VBG>
>

Comment not appropriate to piclist - Mr. Jinxaroonie.

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2000\09\26@114824 by Dan Michaels

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Russell McMahon wrote:
>>saw it as good, and adopted it. Thus, trickle-down Reagonimics was
>>born. Steal from the middle class, give to the rich, and it'll
>>trickle on down to the poor. We've all been laughing ever since,
>
>While we are so gloriously OT -
>
>The "trickle down" theory has never (as far as I know)(BIMBW) been espoused
>seriously by anyone ever.


You weren't in america early 1980s, were you?
===================

>
>But,then, I've never heard of the Laugher curve so perhaps someone was in
>fact silly enough to seriously suggest this.
>


As already said, our president, 1980-1988. The foundation
theory of Reagonomics. Arthur Laugher [Laffer??] and his
theory written on a napkin.

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2000\09\26@115438 by Andrew Kunz

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Russ,

Please stop confusing Dan with the facts.  This one is a "fact" known only to
Dan and those of like mindset, like Dan Rather-Biased, Peter Jennings, Hugh
Downs, and Josef Stalin.

Andy









Dan Michaels <oricomspamspam_OUTLYNX.SNI.NET> on 08/26/2000 10:47:52 AM

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Subject: Re: [OT]: NZ polies








Russell McMahon wrote:
>>saw it as good, and adopted it. Thus, trickle-down Reagonimics was
>>born. Steal from the middle class, give to the rich, and it'll
>>trickle on down to the poor. We've all been laughing ever since,
>
>While we are so gloriously OT -
>
>The "trickle down" theory has never (as far as I know)(BIMBW) been espoused
>seriously by anyone ever.


You weren't in america early 1980s, were you?
===================

>
>But,then, I've never heard of the Laugher curve so perhaps someone was in
>fact silly enough to seriously suggest this.
>


As already said, our president, 1980-1988. The foundation
theory of Reagonomics. Arthur Laugher [Laffer??] and his
theory written on a napkin.

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2000\09\26@120243 by Dan Michaels

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Andy Kunz wrote:
>Russ,
>
>Please stop confusing Dan with the facts.  This one is a "fact" known only to
>Dan and those of like mindset, like Dan Rather-Biased, Peter Jennings, Hugh
>Downs, and Josef Stalin.
>


These sort of comments should be taken offline.

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2000\09\26@190145 by Jinx

face picon face
> >What is it you think the rich and powerful are trickling down on you
> >Mr Michaels ? <VBG>
> >
> Comment not appropriate to piclist - Mr. Jinxaroonie.
>
And they're doing it from greater and greater heights. This is all
relevant to the game we're in of course. As (eg IC) companies
get bigger and bigger by sales growth and/or acquisition of smaller
companies, their profit margins get smaller as they fight competition
or devote large portions of their output to similarly large product
manufacturers, for example cellphones. The result is that at the
lower end of the food chain (quite a lot of us, relatively speaking)
parts become either unavailable in economically practical terms or
just plain unavailable. The irony is thus that wherever you look
there are more and more great new devices being made and "for
sale" but they are so often unobtainable. We just aren't worth the
paper-work time anymore

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2000\09\27@082910 by Andrew Kunz

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Another aspect to this is the increased cost of prototyping.  How many of you
can stick down BGA parts in your basement?

Andy









Jinx <RemoveMEjoecolquittTakeThisOuTspamCLEAR.NET.NZ> on 09/26/2000 07:00:11 PM

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Subject: Re: [OT]: NZ polies








> >What is it you think the rich and powerful are trickling down on you
> >Mr Michaels ? <VBG>
> >
> Comment not appropriate to piclist - Mr. Jinxaroonie.
>
And they're doing it from greater and greater heights. This is all
relevant to the game we're in of course. As (eg IC) companies
get bigger and bigger by sales growth and/or acquisition of smaller
companies, their profit margins get smaller as they fight competition
or devote large portions of their output to similarly large product
manufacturers, for example cellphones. The result is that at the
lower end of the food chain (quite a lot of us, relatively speaking)
parts become either unavailable in economically practical terms or
just plain unavailable. The irony is thus that wherever you look
there are more and more great new devices being made and "for
sale" but they are so often unobtainable. We just aren't worth the
paper-work time anymore

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2000\09\27@170430 by Plunkett, Dennis
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I don't have a basement but I can do this. I can not do TBGA, as can not
most board stuffers.
But even I draw the line at TSOP


Dennis


> {Original Message removed}


'[OT]: NZ polies'
2000\10\02@085755 by Alan B. Pearce
face picon face
>Without Lange, you would not have had "Rodgernomics!" From the outside this
>seems to be one of the best things that occurec in NZ.

the problem is on the otherside of the world there is now Blaironomics or 0.75pence Brownonomics which is copying all the bad bits of Rodgernomics.

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