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'[OT]: Microchip Redesigned Site'
2001\10\19@143410 by Chris Carr

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I had problems getting into the Microchip Site in the
middle of the week. It would appear that they
now have a redesigned site and I am having a
great deal of difficulty navigating it. Is it
just me ?

I am trying to find information on the
rf12C509 and apart from a press release I am
drawing a blank.Can anyone give me a direct link to
a datasheet no matter how brief.

Regards

Chris Carr

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2001\10\19@145430 by Ned Konz

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On Friday 19 October 2001 11:30 am, Chris Carr wrote:
> I had problems getting into the Microchip Site in the
> middle of the week. It would appear that they
> now have a redesigned site and I am having a
> great deal of difficulty navigating it. Is it
> just me ?

Have you tried http://www.microchip.com/1000/ to turn off all the annoying
Java and graphics?

> I am trying to find information on the
> rf12C509 and apart from a press release I am
> drawing a blank.Can anyone give me a direct link to
> a datasheet no matter how brief.

www.microchip.com/1000/pline/rfPIC/devices/12C509AG/6930/index.htm
http://www.microchip.com/download/lit/pline/picmicro/families/rfpic/70029c.pdf

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2001\10\19@171937 by Quentin

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Yes, it has been a pain but it is working now. Turn of Java at the
bottom of the page. Much better.
From the front page I found this:
http://www.microchip.com/1010/pline/rfpic/index.htm


Chris Carr wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\10\20@014039 by Chris Carr

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Thanks Quentin. I was using the Java version which just gives you
a blank page so I dropped into the Text version which also gives you
a blank page. I gave up then as trying the Graphics version seemed
pointless. Obviously your brain is in tune with Microchip and mine
isn't, as this is the only version that is not a blank page.

Regards
Chris Carr

Quentin wrote :
{Quote hidden}

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2001\10\20@014738 by Chris Carr

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Ned Konz wrote :


> On Friday 19 October 2001 11:30 am, Chris Carr wrote:
> > I had problems getting into the Microchip Site in the
> > middle of the week. It would appear that they
> > now have a redesigned site and I am having a
> > great deal of difficulty navigating it. Is it
> > just me ?
>
> Have you tried http://www.microchip.com/1000/ to turn off all the annoying
> Java and graphics?
>
I did actually and through "Developers Toolbox, Product Lines" you get to
http://www.microchip.com/1000/pline/rfpic/index.htm which is a blank page.
The Java version is also a blank page.
As it turns out (Thanks again Quentin) only the graphics version of
that page gives ongoing links.

> > I am trying to find information on the
> > rf12C509 and apart from a press release I am
> > drawing a blank.Can anyone give me a direct link to
> > a datasheet no matter how brief.
>
> http://www.microchip.com/1000/pline/rfPIC/devices/12C509AG/6930/index.htm
>
www.microchip.com/download/lit/pline/picmicro/families/rfpic/70029c.p
df
>
Great just what I needed. Thanks Ned.

Regards
Chris Carr

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2001\10\25@111008 by Harold M Hallikainen

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       Not just having problems navigating, it crashes my browser.  Real pain!


Harold

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:30:03 +0100 Chris Carr <.....nyedKILLspamspam@spam@BTINTERNET.COM>
writes:
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2001\10\25@124705 by Josh Koffman

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It crashed my browser so badly I had to reboot in order to get it to
work again. And that was following the links on the supposed text site.
I then hit one button that I thought was just a regular link. I guess I
was wrong.

Josh

Harold M Hallikainen wrote:
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'[OT]: Microchip Redesigned Site'
2001\11\11@091032 by Martin G. McCormick
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       I use lynx and, of course, select the text version.  It
looks like the javascript monster has gobbled up another once
useful web site.

       For the life of me, I will never understand how
javascript-based navigation is any improvement over straight
navigation by html which needs no scripting to function.

       For some of us, Netscape and Internet Explorer are not
valid options and probably won't be for a while yet.

       I don't visit this site often, but I am interested in
trends and the trend is to over design everything with javascript
and call it progress.

       Javascript is a marketing-driven solution to a problem
that never existed.  It is this way of thinking that is partly to
blame for some of the .com woes.  Make it complex enough and
folks will just quietly go away and do something else.

       Rather than just whining about it, I want to experiment
with trying to add some kind of javascript support to at least
make the links work, but it would be a lot nicer to not have to
mess with this monster at all.:-(  So my apologies if I am still
whining.

       Text is only the knowledge engine that played a major
role in creating civilized society all over the world over the
last few thousand years so it is obviously time to throw it out
and replace it with as complex a cluge as humanly possible.

       I want to see technology that works for the largest
community possible.  As a computer user who also happens to be
blind, I can tell you that computers have come closer to leveling
the playing field over the last twenty or so years than many of
you can imagine.  I sit here and read messages from this list by
listening to a rather strange, but not unpleasant voice reading the
text.  The special hardware to convert ASCII in to speech can be
rather inexpensive these days and, on some systems, it is an
application that does the conversion in software and uses the
sound card so there is no dedicated hardware at all.

       My point to all this griping and rambling is that if
there is a simple and text-based method of communicating, a lot
of logistical problems simply go away.  The stuff just works for
all concerned.

       The problem is not that today's web browsers are
GUI-based.  It is that developers for whatever reason think that
legacy methods for munching information are not needed any more.

       Broadcast television is required to give a
monochrome-compatible picture and monophonic sound in most
places.  FM radio all over the world still works with monaural
receivers.  Fax machines and modems negotiate down to the
protocol that both understand if the initial connection method
fails, so why must information technology be exempt from this
principle?  I think there are many reasons, all bad ones.  We
don't really know what life would be like with this kind of a
model, but I can tell you that the rest of you would have better
technology that wouldn't crash nearly as often and people like me
would not be sending messages like this but would simply be
building stuff or learning things that are much harder to do
right now because the available technology is more like
ill-fitting shoes than sleek efficient tools.

       In my job as Network/Software Specialist in our Network
Operations group at Oklahoma State University, I am constantly
aware of the security implications of various communications
technologies.  The scripting browsers introduce lots of avenues
for mischief if the site visited happens to have been hacked or
run by people who are out to make trouble.

       Email and web engines that allow unknown entities to run
stuff on our computers are a recipe for disaster and it's already
happening.  There's another good reason to have simple and
well-known methods of communication.  I am not stuck in the past,
but only want technology that works safely on the network and
works for me.

Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK
OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Network Operations Group
Josh Koffman writes:
>It crashed my browser so badly I had to reboot in order to get it to
>work again. And that was following the links on the supposed text site.

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2001\11\12@002303 by Josh Koffman

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I just wanted to say I totally agree with you. Microchip, if you're
listening, stop bringing in the fancy stuff. Honestly, I don't think it
really impresses anyone, especially if it crashes a potential client's
browser.

What bothers me just as much as all the javascript stuff is webpages
that don't work in some browsers. I believe I was at SGS Thompson's
site, and it wouldn't work in Netscape. Only by switching to explorer
did it come up properly. This is extremely annoying, and pretty stupid.
Why make a standard when some people just modify it propietarily?

Anyway, that's just my beef. Thanks for listening :)

Josh Koffman
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"Martin G. McCormick" wrote:
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2001\11\12@012020 by Bob Barr

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On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:37:18 -0500, you wrote:

>I just wanted to say I totally agree with you. Microchip, if you're
>listening, stop bringing in the fancy stuff. Honestly, I don't think it
>really impresses anyone, especially if it crashes a potential client's
>browser.
>
>What bothers me just as much as all the javascript stuff is webpages
>that don't work in some browsers. I believe I was at SGS Thompson's
>site, and it wouldn't work in Netscape. Only by switching to explorer
>did it come up properly. This is extremely annoying, and pretty stupid.
>Why make a standard when some people just modify it propietarily?
>

According to Microchip, their site will work with version 6.0 or
higher of Netscape. I've heard so many bad things about 6.0 that I'm
still using the 4.77 version.

There seem to be more and more sites lately that just won't work with
the older versions of Netscape. :=(

Regards, Bob

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2001\11\12@033241 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>I just wanted to say I totally agree with you. Microchip, if you're
>listening, stop bringing in the fancy stuff. Honestly, I don't think it
>really impresses anyone, especially if it crashes a potential client's
>browser.

       Wasn't there the "only text" version?

       Oh, loved internet...Miss the time when pages loaded in a matter of 2 or 3 seconds

       Just look at my page...beautiful(?) and FAST (man, did I said F A S T???)


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2001\11\12@082808 by Linux HA

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Josh Koffman wrote:

> I just wanted to say I totally agree with you. Microchip, if you're
> listening, stop bringing in the fancy stuff. Honestly, I don't think it
> really impresses anyone, especially if it crashes a potential client's
> browser.
>


I've tried several browsers, on Windows both Netscape 4.x and IE 5.x,
both crashed. On Linux I've used Mozilla 0.92 and it doesn't render a
page. Probably doesn't know if it's Netscape or iE (it's more Netscape).
I hate the new pages. I liked the old 'first 2 pages' of the ref sheets.

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2001\11\12@130014 by Harold M Hallikainen

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On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:37:18 -0500 Josh Koffman <TakeThisOuTlistsjoshEraseMEspamspam_OUT3MTMP.COM>
writes:
> I just wanted to say I totally agree with you. Microchip, if you're
> listening, stop bringing in the fancy stuff. Honestly, I don't think
> it
> really impresses anyone, especially if it crashes a potential
> client's
> browser.
>

       Agreed! It crashes my browser. Let's have sites that go for content
instead of flash!

Harold


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2001\11\12@172505 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

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> I just wanted to say I totally agree with you. Microchip, if you're
> listening, stop bringing in the fancy stuff. Honestly, I don't think it
> really impresses anyone, especially if it crashes a potential client's
> browser.

I agree. The web used to be divided in two sections: no-frills sites full of
usefull content, and fancy sites without anything worth looking (which was
fortunate, because you would not be able to find anything if it were there).
But a gang of web stylists seems to have taken over Microchip (who's site
used to be definitely in the first group), so I think I'd better rip the
site and store all its usefull content somewhere safe, because after the
next update I will be totally unable to find MPLAB or the PIC datahseets
anymore.

Wouter van Ooijen

Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
Jal compiler for PIC uC's:  http://www.voti.nl/jal

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2001\11\12@223035 by Martin G. McCormick

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       The reason for a lot of this nonsense is the fact that
not many people actually write the code for web pages any more.
They fire up Microsoft Frontpage or some similar mystery meat
generator and point and click and grunt and squeal and do
everything but think in complete sentences.

       Frontpage can actually render a web page that works
generically, but one has to deliberately switch lots of things
off that are defaulted on and many people equate generic and
standard with ugly monochrome text.  Nothing could be further
from the truth, but the fault lies with commercial interests who
don't give the South end of a North-bound frog about
compatibility and accessibility unless it is to break the other
guy's stuff in favor of one's own.

       There isn't even that much wrong with javascript if it is
used right.  It was originally meant to enhance the visual
effect of a page.  It all went wrong when virtual links replaced
standard html links and mouseovers replaced keyboard input.  If
the server engine is truly smart and not the junk we have today,
it should gracefully understand both methods of doing things.

       I have forgotten the name of the patron saint of lost
causes and that is too bad because I seem to champion many of
them as I sit in front of my Linux computer.

Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK
OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Network Operations Group

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2001\11\12@224736 by Jinx

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>         I have forgotten the name of the patron saint of lost causes

That's my old mucker St Catherine ;-((

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2001\11\12@232028 by Josh Koffman
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According to http://saints.catholic.org/patron.html the patron saint of
Lost or desperate causes is St. Jude.

Josh

Jinx wrote:
>
> >         I have forgotten the name of the patron saint of lost causes
>
> That's my old mucker St Catherine ;-((
>
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2001\11\13@012850 by Heinz Czychun

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       So I'm not the only one who's had their browser (Communicator
4.7) crash, I thought it was a Mac thing.

       This crashed on the uChip CDs, I've long since given up on
navigating their site. I just do a search with Google to find their
date sheets, and when I see the uChip name in the URL I head directly
to the download page.

       Short, sweet, works.

Heinz

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2001\11\13@135334 by Harold M Hallikainen

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Send your comments to EraseMEwebperformancespamspamspamBeGonemail.microchip.com

Harold

On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:00:12 +0100 wouter van ooijen & floortje hanneman
<RemoveMEwfKILLspamspamXS4ALL.NL> writes:
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2001\11\13@172656 by Peter L. Peres

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> Wasn't there the "only text" version?
>
> Oh, loved internet...Miss the time when pages loaded in a matter of 2
> or 3 seconds

You can still have that experience if you use Lynx (text only browser,
runs in a terminal window), which I often do, because I do sysadmin and I
connect from home via normal 56K modem. Once you know the ropes, you can
even read javascript source in the page source and follow obscure links
;-). Lynx runs on DOS (and in a Windows window)  too. Look for lynx.zip or
lynx.exe in popular archives.

What I find annoying is, that there is no way to find things by searching
in many popular sites. Finding the search window is an adventure by
itself.

Peter

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2001\11\13@202157 by Josh Koffman

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Here's a copy of the email I sent them. If you haven't already, I urge
you all to send your true feelings about the site! :)

Josh

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Greetings. I just wanted to register my dissatisfaction with the new
website. Most of the people I know that use your site do so for
information. So far, I have heard reports and experienced your site
crashing every major browser on both Windows and Mac platforms. I'm not
quite sure what made you change the site, but by crashing browsers I'm
not sure who you are trying to impress. Most of the people I know of
that use your site won't be swayed by a flashy useless site, but rather
by the ease of use and the amount of information available. I am a great
supporter of your products, but I am sorry to say, not the website.

Josh Koffman
spamBeGonejoshySTOPspamspamEraseME3mtmp.com


Harold M Hallikainen wrote:
>
> Send your comments to KILLspamwebperformancespamBeGonespammail.microchip.com
>
> Harold

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