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'[OT]: Kennedy Western University'
2002\07\10@131854 by Josh Koffman

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Hi all. Anyone heard of, or had any dealings with Kennedy Western
University? I'm looking at their correspondence EE program, and looking
for any input.

Thanks,

Josh
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2002\07\10@153913 by Jennifer L. Gatza

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I looked into it a few years ago; I used to get promotional mailings from
them all the time.  At the time, they were not regionally accredited.  That,
to me, is the number one criteria in selecting any university. I was
concerned that it would be difficult to distinguish such a degree from the
kind that you can buy online.  :)

Jen

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2002\07\10@154906 by A.J. Tufgar

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What you can buy a degree on-line?

And here I am going through University like a sucker!  :)

Aaron

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2002\07\10@155937 by Brendan Moran

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> What you can buy a degree on-line?
>
> And here I am going through University like a sucker!  :)
>

Yeah, who knew? I'm sure that Joe's garage and discount Electrical
engineering University has a distance ed program ;)

http://www.spamradio.com  Listen long enough and they should tell you about lots of
valuable chances to earn a degree.  Of course, most of the email addresses
get overwritten with .....spamKILLspamspam.....spamradio.com but the occasional one slips
through.

"How do I hear it?
To listen to spamradio all you need is a modern computer, a connection to
the Internet, and a complete set of (2) working ears. "

--Brendan

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2002\07\10@155940 by Lawrence Lile

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University of Phoenix actually does provide degreee programs online, I think
MSCE and MSEE as well as a lot of others.

http://online.phoenix.edu/

AFAIK they are accredited.

--Lawrence

{Original Message removed}

2002\07\10@160153 by Dave King

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At 03:47 PM 10/07/02 -0400, you wrote:
>What you can buy a degree on-line?
>
>And here I am going through University like a sucker!  :)
>
>Aaron

Just send me  money and I'll fire up painshop pro and we'll
get you that job in Poodle psychiatry you always dreamed of. ;-]

Dave

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2002\07\10@161205 by Tom Messenger

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Don't worry sucker, er, uh, Aaron.

You are attending the worlds best school, right here on this list.  And you
can look forward to receiving your degree in Picology. Yup, before you know
it, you'll be completely pickled.

At 03:47 PM 7/10/02 -0400, you wrote:
>What you can buy a degree on-line?
>
>And here I am going through University like a sucker!  :)
>
>Aaron

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2002\07\10@161420 by Jennifer L. Gatza

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> University of Phoenix actually does provide degreee programs
> online, I think
> MSCE and MSEE as well as a lot of others.

Yeah, but not engineering. And they cost megabucks!  (about $500/cr. hr.)
One of my good friends works there and gets paid tuition as a benefit -
great school, if someone else is paying for it.  *seething with jealousy*
:)

Jen

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2002\07\10@161834 by s.hutch

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Try National Tech University
http://www.ntu.edu/index.asp
Big name colleges, selling courses in cyberspace.
What a world we live in.
hutch

On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:40:33 -0400 Josh Koffman <RemoveMElistsjoshTakeThisOuTspam3MTMP.COM> wrote:

Hi all. Anyone heard of, or had any dealings with Kennedy Western
University? I'm looking at their correspondence EE program, and looking
for any input.

Thanks,

Josh
--
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completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
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2002\07\10@162106 by Al Williams

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AFAIK KW is not regionally accredited. Depending on why you want a
degree, this may or may not be a problem.

Without going into too much detail, there are several kinds of schools:

1) Diploma Mills

2) Well-meaning schools that are unwilling or unable to accredit

3) Schools that are accredited

#1 is of no use to you unless you just want to be a fraud.

#2 can be great if you just need someone to structure your learning,
provide classes, etc. For example, I've worked with many people who have
taken "correspondence" courses and have made fine technicians and even
went on to perform engineering tasks. However, if you want to pursue a
graduate degree or have "credentials" for things like a PE or even not
be overly scrutinized by big companies, this kind of degree isn't going
to help. Sort of like the difference between a moped and a car. A moped
might get you to work, but it is easier to get a date if you have a car.

#3 is tricky. There is no single way to accreditation. The big colleges
work through regional agencies that are well-recognized. So if your
school is accredited by the same group that accredits Harvard, Miss.
State University, or Cal Tech, then you are OK. However, some #1 and #2
schools have said, "Hey! Let's make the PICList Accreditation Board and
accredit ourselves." Well, for the #2 schools, that is not very much
help. Sure, it could be a legitimate way to "self-police" but it could
also be a scam.

However, there is also specialized accreditation like ABET. These are
great ideas although many PE boards have latched onto this as a way to
stop "non traditional" students from ever qualifying for a PE. ABET is
usually on top of regional and only applies to certain fields (ABET is
for EE).

So ideally, you'd get a degree from an accredited university that has
ABET. However, here's the bad news. ABET ABSOLUTELY 100% REQUIRES LABS
and that generally means residency (no Internet). As far as I know, no
one offers (an undergraduate) ABET wholly at a distance.

Your next choice is to get a BSEET or related degree from an accredited
"non traditional" school. There are three that I know of (although I
don't know if any offer EE; I suspect most offer CS):

Thomas Edison State College (run by state of NJ)
Charter Oaks (Connecticut I think? State run?)
Excelsior (New York -- until recently Regents State College; not sure
what the name change means)

I'm sure these are all on the Web. I don't know of any others that are
REGIONALLY ACCREDITED and offer undergraduate degrees completely
non-resident.

I don't have personal experience with any of these, but I had an
employee who used Thomas Edison and was pretty pleased with them. They
are not speedy at responding to things though if I recall.

There are also non-US schools, but that is another ball of wax.

So if you just want to learn, there are lots of "little" schools that
will help you (or you can teach yourself; this is easier than ever for a
lot of reasons). If you want people to recognize your learning, you need
an accredited school. Ideally, they will also help you learn. Notice
that I say "help you learn" instead of "teach" -- no school from Joe's
College of Solderin' to MIT will force feed you anything. The best
indicator of an education, in my experience, is the learner, not the
teacher. However, a big University with a lot of resources can certainly
HELP you learn. And even if you don't learn, if you can wangle a degree
you can get people to assume you know things (until you prove
otherwise). If you have a low-quality (or no) degree then people will
assume you don't know things and you have to prove that way. With a
diploma mill ticket people will simply assume you are a con man and you
probably won't get a chance to prove otherwise.

Sorry to go on so long but this is a hot button. Part of my business is
doing "training" where we do seminars to adult learners. The University
system has so much going for it and so much potential, that it saddens
me that it isn't better than it is. It also saddens me that there are so
many rip off schools. But I won't get into what's wrong with the system.
It is what it is, and your best bet is to work the system.

Al Williams
AWC
http://www.al-williams.com

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2002\07\10@162109 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

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> You are attending the worlds best school, right here on this list.  And
you
> can look forward to receiving your degree in Picology. Yup, before you
know
> it, you'll be completely pickled.

And you can buy your weareable certificate on-line:
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist/support.htm

Wouter van Ooijen
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2002\07\10@163626 by Brendan Moran

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> AFAIK KW is not regionally accredited. Depending on why you want a
> degree, this may or may not be a problem.
>
> Without going into too much detail, there are several kinds of schools:
>
> 1) Diploma Mills
>
> 2) Well-meaning schools that are unwilling or unable to accredit
>
> 3) Schools that are accredited
>
> #1 is of no use to you unless you just want to be a fraud.

I disagree.  BCIT is a school that has a very good reputation.  Some of you
that don't even know where B.C. is may even have heard of BCIT.  BCIT is, as
near as all of its students can tell, a diploma mill.  Most programs take 2
years or under, and they do not have an accredited degree in most areas.
But despite all that, there is something like a 90% hire rate on fresh
grads.  If they're frauds, then I don't know what's going on.

Diploma mills with a good reputation are not for putting out frauds.

But then, I may be misinterpreting your use of the term "diploma mill"

--Brendan

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2002\07\10@165233 by Al Williams

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No, to me a diploma mill is someone who says, "Hey, send me $500 and
I'll send you a degree. If you have $500 you must know something."

If BC is British Columbia, then this falls under "non US" school and I'm
not really informed about how it all works (I do know something about
how most grad schools and PE boards look at non US schools, but that is
yet another issue).

If it is a US school then it sounds like a #2 school to me. My ex son in
law, for example, got a ASEET from ITT and it certainly makes him
hirable. But almost none of it (and maybe none of it at all) would
transfer if he wanted to work on a BS from a regionally accredited
school. If you are seeking engineering work, I think the EET degree has
a bit of a stigma and an AS degree does too. It is a shame -- one of the
best engineers I ever knew had a BSEET from Georgia Tech.

So don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the #2 schools. As long as
you know you are there to learn and not there to get a diploma that will
be widely applicable in other academic ventures. Smart employers want to
hire people who know how to do work, and they aren't such sticklers
about accreditation IF they know the school involved.

However, Joe Tech might be known by local employers but not by employers
across the country. In this case, the fact that Joe Tech is not
accredited may be a factor.

So my original point in one sentence: Pick a school that will match your
goals.

Al Williams
AWC

P.S. Thanks to MIT (a fine school by all accounts) for hosting the list.
Not to mention the admins!




> {Original Message removed}

2002\07\10@172930 by Al Williams

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Some interesting links:

WK (towards the end):
http://chronicle.com/free/v47/i28/28a03401.htm

I won't post the link, but a quick google search found an ad for
"Novelty Diplomas" complete with "Novelty Transcripts" -- this is like
the "Grape Block" sold during prohibition that carried a stern warning:

WARNING: Do not place grape block in 1 gallon of water at 70 degrees in
a dark place for two or an illegal alcoholic beverage will result.

There is another place that offers degrees for people who went to
colleges that closed and then they lost their diploma. Of course, they
take your word for it that you actually went to the school.

www.techtv.com/cybercrime/internetfraud/story/0,23008,3327045,00.
html

There are even sites telling you how to print your own.

That's diploma mills IMHO.

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2002\07\10@174617 by Brendan Moran

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> No, to me a diploma mill is someone who says, "Hey, send me $500 and
> I'll send you a degree. If you have $500 you must know something."

Fair enough.

> If BC is British Columbia, then this falls under "non US" school and I'm
> not really informed about how it all works (I do know something about
> how most grad schools and PE boards look at non US schools, but that is
> yet another issue).

You guessed right ;) but it's really a tech school, and they have a
reputation for working the students pretty hard.

> If it is a US school then it sounds like a #2 school to me. My ex son in
> law, for example, got a ASEET from ITT and it certainly makes him
> hirable. But almost none of it (and maybe none of it at all) would
> transfer if he wanted to work on a BS from a regionally accredited
> school. If you are seeking engineering work, I think the EET degree has
> a bit of a stigma and an AS degree does too. It is a shame -- one of the
> best engineers I ever knew had a BSEET from Georgia Tech.

From BCIT, in the EET or, now CEET (Computer and Electronics Engineering
Technology.  Whew, what a name!), there is the option of taking a one-summer
conversion program at either Lakehead University, or UVIC, which puts you at
the level of 2nd year engineering students.  Of course, there's all that
actual practical experience that you get along the way as part a BCIT
student, which the engineering students at a university are a lot more hard
pressed for.

> So don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the #2 schools. As long as
> you know you are there to learn and not there to get a diploma that will
> be widely applicable in other academic ventures. Smart employers want to
> hire people who know how to do work, and they aren't such sticklers
> about accreditation IF they know the school involved.
>
> However, Joe Tech might be known by local employers but not by employers
> across the country. In this case, the fact that Joe Tech is not
> accredited may be a factor.

This is true, though I have heard a story of a BCIT radiology tech working
in Belgium (I think)...

> So my original point in one sentence: Pick a school that will match your
> goals.
>
> Al Williams
> AWC
>
> P.S. Thanks to MIT (a fine school by all accounts) for hosting the list.
> Not to mention the admins!
>
No kidding!

--Brendan

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2002\07\10@180618 by A.J. Tufgar

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I think your right guys, it's time to dump this Elec. Eng. stuff and
pick up a picology degree.  :)

You think the university will give me my last cheque back?  :)

Aaron

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2002\07\11@044052 by Vic Lopez

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University of Phoenix doesn't offer MSCE or MSEE. They offer MBA and IS
degrees. It seems to me that their only criteria for letting you in is
how big your wallet is. Big wallet = You are in. Small wallet = Sorry,
you don't qualify. Their degrees benefit only those folks with lots of
years of experience in the job, but don't have the paper to move up the
ladder.

{Original Message removed}

2002\07\11@102537 by Josh Koffman

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Well, perhaps I should elaborate on what I want. At the moment, I don't
plan on becoming an EE at some huge corporation somewhere. I am already
working on another degree. Ideally I wish to be doing similar contract
work (like Jinx for instance), but with more of a theatre/entertainment
angle. Or, I wouldn't mind doing what Harold does :) I already design
and build some custom solutions, but at the moment, my design skills
aren't great. My knowledge is entirely self (and list) taught. I want
some formal education, but I don't have the 4 years to go to a full time
university. I realize that the degree from Kennedy won't be as
recognized as a degree from MIT, but that's not neccesarily what I want.
As I will most likely end up working for myself anyways, I'm not too
worried at the moment. So, the question becomes this: IF all I really
want is the knowledge, and I'm not too concerned with the universality
of my degree, AND Kennedy will make me work for the degree, and not just
print it out, is it worth it? This is not a diploma mill, I do actually
have to learn. Any thoughts?

BTW, Kennedy mentions something about a licenced school thing
(http://www.kw.edu/recognition.asp). I'm guessing that's just a
governmental licensure and not accreditiation?

Josh
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fools.
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Al Williams wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\07\11@103439 by Lawrence Lile

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All Williams Wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Williams" <EraseMEalwspamspamspamBeGoneAL-WILLIAMS.COM>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [OT]: Kennedy Western University

> doing "training" where we do seminars to adult learners. The University
> system has so much going for it and so much potential, that it saddens
> me that it isn't better than it is.

Well, I have at least one data point that says the University BSEE system is
much better than it used to be.  I graduated from University of Missouri
with a BSEE in 1980.  At the time, I was begging for a course in
microcontrollers and assembly language, and the response I got was "Oh, just
read the data sheets. Microcontrollers are a dead end, you should be
studying something useful like big power SCR's."  Years later, after a lot
of struggle I have taught myself how to get around a PIC, a little C, some
assembler, and a lot of other practical skills, and big power SCR's are
dead.  Learning this stuff has been quite a struggle, esp. before I
discovered this List.

I've been working with a recent grad from the same school, and I can toss a
few PIC's, a block diagram of a circuit, plus a flowchart on her bench and
she can sit down and build a circuit and program it in C.  Geez.  So far I
am a lot more impressed with what engineering schools are turning out now
versus 20 years ago.

--Lawrence

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2002\07\11@104308 by Lawrence Lile

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Sorry, I was confusing their MS in Computer Information Systems with an
MSCE, which mean the same thing to me. I'm sure there are some subtle
differences which loom large to those in the field, to us BSEE Solder
Junkies all computer degrees mean the same thing - they can't solder. I'm
with Steve Ciarcia, if it ain't soldered together yet I don't believe it
really works.

--Lawrence

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vic Lopez" <lopezSTOPspamspamspam_OUTNETWORLD.COM>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTSTOPspamspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:24 AM
Subject: Re: [OT]: Kennedy Western University


> University of Phoenix doesn't offer MSCE or MSEE. They offer MBA and IS
> degrees. It seems to me that their only criteria for letting you in is
> how big your wallet is. Big wallet = You are in. Small wallet = Sorry,
> you don't qualify. Their degrees benefit only those folks with lots of
> years of experience in the job, but don't have the paper to move up the
> ladder.
>
> {Original Message removed}

2002\07\11@105020 by Dale Botkin

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On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, Lawrence Lile wrote:

> Steve Ciarcia

My hero...  "My favorite programming language is solder".  I still use
that, and the UNIX admins working for me look at me like I'm from outer
space.  No clue what I'm talking about.

Sigh...

Dale

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2002\07\11@105035 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>and big power SCR's are dead.

unless you are working for a railroad locomotive manufacturing company ?

Most of the modern locos seem to have some sort of thyristor control system,
and I would guess they come under the category of "big".

I would guess conveyor control systems with variable speed drive also use
some "big" SCR family bits. :)

However I agree that microcontrollers is probably a more "universal" market
to be involved with.

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2002\07\11@105227 by Al Williams

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There is no doubt it is better and ABET is part of the reason. However,
I hate to see things like ABET used as a way to seal off things like PE
tickets from people who don't have the benefit of an ABET accredited
degree.

Also, some schools are in line with modern trends and some are not. I
know some schools use Parallax's SX courseware to satisfy part of their
ABET requirements. Some still don't have adequate assembly instruction
(either none, or something ancient like 6800).

So I agree it is better overall. Gee, when I was in school we had to
take two semesters of drafting where you drew with pencil and ink on
paper. We did one week of "CAD" where you punched cards to drive a
clunky old plotter. Even in those days everyone in the real world drew
on film and not paper. Only the biggest companies had anything better
for CAD back then, but it would have been nice to have a couple of HP
9800s or something that had some basis in reality.

I had to go to work before I found out what a plastic eraser, a Kroy, a
Leroy, and a diazo machine were! Funny thing is, all of that is passe
now, I suppose. I finally was parted with my last drafting table about 5
years ago (sniff). Not that I was ever very good at drafting myself, but
there's something about designing at a drafting table that gets the
juices flowing.

Our "assembly language" course was on a Univac 1106 -- just like a
PIC... NOT....


Al Williams
AWC
http://www.al-williams.com






> {Original Message removed}

2002\07\11@105635 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>So, the question becomes this: IF all I really want
>is the knowledge, and I'm not too concerned with the
>universality of my degree, AND Kennedy will make me
>work for the degree, and not just print it out, is it
>worth it? This is not a diploma mill, I do actually
>have to learn. Any thoughts?

Well I guess one of the early things to do is write and find out what
accreditation and recognition their degree has.

I am in a similar situation, and have come to the conclusion that it is a
case of seeing what the courses are about, and learning the subjects that
seem to go where one wants. The biggest hassle I have in this area is
finding an advisor at the university open days and the like that can talk in
your terms and help guide your choice, so many of them seem to be so
knowledgeable on the overview, but try and get some nitty gritty course
planning outside the glossy brochure description and they seem to get lost.

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2002\07\11@110315 by Al Williams

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Steve is the reason I'm a writer today (among other things I'm a
writer). I used to read his column and say, "Man! This guy gets paid to
do whatever he wants every month... What a deal."

Al Williams
AWC
http://www.al-williams.com



> {Original Message removed}

2002\07\11@133521 by Chris Loiacono

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> From: Lawrence Lile <KILLspamllilespamBeGonespamTOASTMASTER.COM>
> Organization: Toastmaster Inc.
> Subject:      Re: [OT]: Kennedy Western University
> To: EraseMEPICLISTspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU


..... and big power
> SCR's are
> dead.


Ouch!

It seems there are very few people around with working knowledge of Power
Control today. I looked for recent grads with interest in this area a couple
of years ago, and found none.

Big Power is a specialty that will be coming into it's own once again - at
least I hope so because we control a lot of things with big SCR's and PIC's.
At the moment, I am prototyping a PIC controlled unit that will be used in
hydroelectric plants as well as other areas.

I keep thinking of how the world's largest machine is stressed beyond it's
original design capabilities and how Siemens designed and built an entire
Power grid branch switcher out of a bunch of big SCR's and a few handfulls
of microcontrollers (and lots of optocouplers, of course!).
This was i response to the need that was created as NYC continued to tax the
source of their power from upstate NY. Of course, the WTC destruction took
out as much load as a small city itself, so the need is not as great as it
once was, but California is an example of how control of power grid nodes
would be so beneficial, since theirs seems to be primarily a resource
management problem.

Anyway, this may be an area of emerging need without people resources to
fill it....

What say ye?

Chris

ps:

Lawrence, did you ever figure out why your messages keep killing the
headers?

cl

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2002\07\11@163448 by Lawrence Lile

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> >
> Our "assembly language" course was on a Univac 1106 -- just like a
> PIC... NOT....

Yeah, the Univac probably had less memory than a decent PIC and didn't run
at more than a megahertz clock rate ;-)

--Lawrence
Who once successfully inserted an entire deck of Fortan punchcards in a card
reader upside down, generating 250+ errors with just 60 cards!

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2002\07\11@164430 by Lawrence Lile

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Yeah, there is still room for Big Power out there, and thyristors are still
used a lot, but Mosfets have encroached a lot on thier territory, especially
under 100V and 100 amps, whereas IGBJTs are encroaching into the higher
voltage and higher power arena.  But there is nothing like a thyristor to
handle thousands of amps.  RF was dead when I was in college, too, and look
at it now........

>
> It seems there are very few people around with working knowledge of Power
> Control today. I looked for recent grads with interest in this area a
couple
> of years ago, and found none.
>
> Big Power is a specialty that will be coming into it's own once again - at
> least I hope so because we control a lot of things with big SCR's and
PIC's.
> At the moment, I am prototyping a PIC controlled unit that will be used in
> hydroelectric plants as well as other areas.


> ps:
>
> Lawrence, did you ever figure out why your messages keep killing the
> headers?

Nope.  It has baffled me from the start.  I'm getting a new 'Puter in a
month or so, hopefully with a brand new default installation of Lookout
Depressed which will work like everybody else's. I will NOT mess around with
any defaults.  I will NOT mess around with any defualts.  I will NOT mess
around with any defaults..  (repeat 100X) ;-)

--Lawrence

>
> cl
>
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2002\07\11@164736 by Lawrence Lile

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Koffman" <@spam@listsjosh@spam@spamspam_OUT3MTMP.COM>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [OT]: Kennedy Western University


> Well, perhaps I should elaborate on what I want. At the moment, I don't
> plan on becoming an EE at some huge corporation somewhere. I am already
> working on another degree. Ideally I wish to be doing similar contract
> work (like Jinx for instance), but with more of a theatre/entertainment
> angle. > Josh

One possibility is, work at an electronics consulting firm in any capacity,
as an intern, or whatever.  Stack your resume with some practical
experience. Build up to what you are looking for.  Study business (MBA's at
night are available at any community college).  Surviving as a consultant
will depend more on your business skills than your skills at programming
PICs, and starting a company will definitely require business horse-sense,
even if it is a one-man garage business. The engineer sitting across the
hall from me has a degree in teaching high school shop.

--Lawrence

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2002\07\11@171904 by Phillip Vogel

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VERY sound advice. My contract work is a little slow at the moment, and I've
been thinking it might be a good time to take a course in something. I had
been thinking about strictly technical things to put letters after my name
(CCNA, CCNP, MCSE and the like), but now that I think about it, getting some
more business savvy could be a good thing.

I've been in the business since 1978, and independant since 1984. When
people ask me, "How's business?" I always answer with, "Been in business
since 1984 and haven't missed a mortgage payment yet!"  Which, while better
than many consultants, could be much better. Taking a couple of business
courses could be just the ticket.

Phillip (who majored in classical organ and choir conducting)

P.S. I'll also be happy when Mr. Lile gets his new non-header-mangling
computer :->


> {Original Message removed}

2002\07\11@184001 by Brendan Moran

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Hash: SHA1

Lawrence, I forwarded this:
{Quote hidden}

On to someone who I thought would be amused, and recieved this reply:

> Was a UNIVAC 1106 larger or smaller than a Ferranti-Packard 6000?
> Since it was FORTRAN I presume they were IBM cards not UNIVAC
> cards:  how  the heck did he do that??!!!!!

I thought you'd be interested to see it and maybe even tell him how
you managed it.


- --Brendan

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2002\07\12@045539 by Mike Singer

picon face
Al Williams wrote:
.
***********************************
.
...The best indicator of an education, in my
experience, is the learner, not the teacher...
.
***********************************
.

  Great words.

  Mike.

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2002\07\12@100354 by Lawrence Lile

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Let me tell you, putting all those cards in upside down and backwards was
not easy.

Now, just like then, I find that one tiny little mistake will often cost
hours of headache, because once a mistake is written down, it is difficult
to see. One can stare at a subtly buggy piece of code for quite a while
thinking it is OK.  The most common mistake I have made is making a mirror
image of something, because to my brain an upside down chair is the same as
a rightside up chair.  How many times I have wired up a chip 100% backwards
I can't count.

--ecnerwaL eliL, E.E.S.B




{Original Message removed}

2002\07\12@101834 by Al Williams

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!oot eM ?yllaeR

When chips are run though an automatic tester, it is not unusual for the
operator to put the tube in backwards and get 100% fail rate. So they
just reverse the tube and run it again.

When I worked failure analysis we had a huge number of bad chips for a
major car maker. We could imagine how ATE had failed to catch an entire
bad lot. Turns out the dice had been put in the packages backwards. When
the tests failed, the operators reversed the tubes and then they passed.
Oddest thing I ever saw.

Al Williams
AWC
http://www.al-willaims.com



> The most common mistake I have made is making a mirror
> image of something, because to my brain an upside down chair
> is the same as a rightside up chair.  How many times I have

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2002\07\12@123241 by Al Williams

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> chips for a major car maker. We could imagine how ATE had

Whoops... Could not imagine...

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