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'[OT]: Is this in the right format?'
2002\10\24@011150 by c Scheepers

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Hi there,


If this message is in the right format I think I have the solution for
all my fellow Outlook users out there. But let me know?

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2002\10\24@013648 by Herbert Graf

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> Hi there,
>
>
> If this message is in the right format I think I have the solution for
> all my fellow Outlook users out there. But let me know?

       Close, but it might still be considered non standard:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The "quoted-printible" is the problem, for best compatibility I believe it
should be 7-bit. TTYL

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2002\10\24@040438 by Russell McMahon

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> Subject: [OT]: Is this in the right format?

No :-(

Headers include the dread "quoted printable" - see excerpt at end .

This exercise has told me one thing. I wondered why with SOME messages I did
not get the senders text marked with my chosen ">" character. Someone
pointed out that this is a result of the message being in "quoted printable"
format.

In Outlook Express 6 you would do the following to get rid of "quoted
printable".
If you are using another version of OE then the method may vary somewhat
from this.

=====================
In Outlook Express
Tools (menu)
   Options (menu item)
       Send Tab
           Set mail sending format to "plain text" (radio button)
           Click "Plain text settings" button
               Set message format to "Mime" using radio button **
               Set "Encode text using" box to "none" *

           * This is where the "quoted printable" gets set.
           ** You could click UUENCODE here but Mime is OK (I believe) in
this context.

           You can also set the line break length here (set to somewhat
less than 80)
           & the delimiter used to mark sender's text.


                       Russell McMahon
______________________________

YOUR HEADERS INCLUDE:

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: [OT]: Is this in the right format?
Thread-Index: AcJ7HIepvd3Yhw2eRDyuZFZuP9RbwQ==

==========================

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2002\10\24@070505 by tony

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>             You can also set the line break length here (set to somewhat
> less than 80)
>

While we are on this subject. In Outlook Depressed
how does one get the text to wrap correctly on the screen
(80 line break length) so that what I send out is in fact what
you get to see.
How do I setup Outlook so that it automatically wraps the text after 80
Characters and not when it gets to the end of the screen.

TIA

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2002\10\24@072232 by cdb

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I'm now totally confused by all this. According to an email I sent to
myself, my header says

<snip>
X-Mailer: PocoMail 2.61 (1056) - Licensed Version
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:10:39 GMT
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by
mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au id g9OBAiH16764
Delivery-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:12:11
X-Account: Optus
Subject: test
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Status: R
<snip>

Now no one has (as yet ) complained that my emails are in the wrong
format, and as can be seen it has automatic 'quoted-printable' plus
some conversion by my ISP outside of my control, but then I also have
my email client set to NOT include the received message in any reply,
perhaps this is why I don't see any problems.

colin
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2002\10\24@080220 by Russell McMahon

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<  > >
I'm now totally confused by all this. According to an email I sent to
myself, my header says

Now no one has (as yet ) complained that my emails are in the wrong
format, and as can be seen it has automatic 'quoted-printable' plus
some conversion by my ISP outside of my control, but then I also have
my email client set to NOT include the received message in any reply,
perhaps this is why I don't see any problems.
< /> > :-)


Are you a terrorist?
Whoops. Wrong thread .... :-)

Your emails are in the wrong format ! (I am a terrorist?)
I never "complained" because until now it was a mystery. Yours are in the
set of emails that do not insert nice ">" (or even ugly ">") in front of the
senders message when I reply to them. This is (apparently) because your
messages are "quoted printable". Why this causes this effect I have no idea.
Until someone pointed it out I had never suspected the cause.



           Russell McMahon

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2002\10\24@081256 by cdb

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Well now Mr McM - what a good memory you have! :)

And ASIO have intercepted this as I type :)

So do you reckon I should enable QP in Headers option?

PocoMail's Help file is a little light in this regard.

Personally, and I'm often accused of being perverse, - I find the
little > signs annoying and untidy - but then I'm just a weird
dis?located Pom type person just to the left and up a few  ' Tudes to
you!
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2002\10\24@085643 by Russell McMahon

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> So do you reckon I should enable QP in Headers option?

Presumably that should read DISABLE ... ?
Yes, disable quoted printable and see how it goes.

> Personally, and I'm often accused of being perverse, - I find the
> little > signs annoying and untidy - but then I'm just a weird
> dis?located Pom type person just to the left and up a few  ' Tudes to
> you!

I find having to add them by hand even more so :-)
You can choose some other delimiter ( ":" or "|"  only it seems withj OE6)



       RM




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2002\10\24@110700 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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> While we are on this subject. In Outlook Depressed
> how does one get the text to wrap correctly on the screen ?

Well, I use the <Carriage Return> key.
Doesn't it work in Outlook Express ???

And anyway, even 80 chars is a bit to much to be
realy easy to read. Make it 60-70...

Jan-Erik Svderholm
S:t Anna Data

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2002\10\24@144641 by Peter L. Peres

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On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Herbert Graf wrote:

*>> Hi there,
*>>
*>>
*>> If this message is in the right format I think I have the solution for
*>> all my fellow Outlook users out there. But let me know?
*>
*>        Close, but it might still be considered non standard:
*>
*>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
*>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
*>
*>The "quoted-printible" is the problem, for best compatibility I believe it
*>should be 7-bit. TTYL

8-bit

Peter

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2002\10\24@172233 by Paul Hutchinson

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Straight ASCII is 7-bit only.

If you allow 8-bit characters then it will have to be encoded (UUE or MIME)
to make it through internet mail servers.

Paul

> *>The "quoted-printible" is the problem, for best compatibility I
> believe it
> *>should be 7-bit. TTYL
>
> 8-bit
>
> Peter
>

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2002\10\24@181256 by Herbert Graf

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> *>        Close, but it might still be considered non standard:
> *>
> *>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> *>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> *>
> *>The "quoted-printible" is the problem, for best compatibility I
> believe it
> *>should be 7-bit. TTYL
>
> 8-bit

       No. Email is a 7bit medium, if you want to transfer 8 bit data you NEED to
encode it somehow, uuencode and MIME are the most common ways of doing this.
TTYL

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2002\10\24@183625 by William Chops Westfield

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   > 8-bit

   No. Email is a 7bit medium, if you want to transfer 8 bit data you
   NEED to encode it somehow, uuencode and MIME are the most common ways of
   doing this.

Hmm.  It was always relatively ambigious whether the body of a message was
allowed to contain 8-bit characters or not.  And of course the underlying
transport is nearly always 8-bit (TCP), unlike back in the good-old NCP days
where each connection could have its own word size.  In fact, those people
who are getting quoted-printable automatically converted into something less
obnoxious seem to mostly be getting it converted to "8-bit", so I guess
it's NOW a permitted encoding.  RFC1341 (the relevant RFC) says:


           5    The Content-Transfer-Encoding Header Field

           Many Content-Types which could usefully be  transported  via
           email  are  represented, in their "natural" format, as 8-bit
           character or binary data.  Such data cannot  be  transmitted
           over   some  transport  protocols.   For  example,  RFC  821
           restricts mail messages to 7-bit  US-ASCII  data  with  1000
           character lines.

           It is necessary, therefore, to define a  standard  mechanism
           for  re-encoding  such  data into a 7-bit short-line format.
           This  document  specifies  that  such  encodings   will   be
           indicated by a new "Content-Transfer-Encoding" header field.
           The Content-Transfer-Encoding field is used to indicate  the
           type  of  transformation  that  has  been  used  in order to
           represent the body in an acceptable manner for transport.

           Unlike Content-Types, a proliferation  of  Content-Transfer-
           Encoding  values  is  undesirable and unnecessary.  However,
           establishing   only   a   single   Content-Transfer-Encoding
           mechanism  does  not  seem  possible.    There is a tradeoff
           between the desire for a compact and efficient  encoding  of
           largely-binary  data  and the desire for a readable encoding
           of data that is mostly, but not entirely, 7-bit  data.   For
           this reason, at least two encoding mechanisms are necessary:
           a "readable" encoding and a "dense" encoding.

           The Content-Transfer-Encoding field is designed  to  specify
           an invertible mapping between the "native" representation of
           a type of data and a  representation  that  can  be  readily
           exchanged  using  7  bit  mail  transport protocols, such as
           those defined by RFC 821 (SMTP). This  field  has  not  been
           defined  by  any  previous  standard. The field's value is a
           single token specifying the type of encoding, as  enumerated
           below.  Formally:

           Content-Transfer-Encoding := "BASE64" / "QUOTED-PRINTABLE" /
                                        "8BIT"   / "7BIT" /
                                        "BINARY" / x-token
               :

           The values "8bit", "7bit", and "binary" all  imply  that  NO
           encoding  has  been performed. However, they are potentially
           useful as indications of the kind of data contained  in  the
           object,  and  therefore  of  the kind of encoding that might
           need to be performed for transmission in a  given  transport
           system.   "7bit"  means  that the data is all represented as
           short lines of US-ASCII data.  "8bit" means that  the  lines
           are  short,  but  there  may be non-ASCII characters (octets
           with the high-order bit set).  "Binary" means that not  only
           may non-ASCII characters be present, but also that the lines
           are not necessarily short enough for SMTP transport.


Also note that MIME is NOT an "encoding" - it's the overall framework that
permits a mail message to divided into parts containing different types of
content (with the type specified) with potentially different encodings (with
the encoding also specified.)  UUENCODE, BASE64, and QUOTED-PRINTABLE are
all ENCODINGS...

BillW

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2002\10\25@052732 by Peter L. Peres

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On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Herbert Graf wrote:

*>> *>        Close, but it might still be considered non standard:
*>> *>
*>> *>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
*>> *>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
*>> *>
*>> *>The "quoted-printible" is the problem, for best compatibility I
*>> believe it
*>> *>should be 7-bit. TTYL
*>>
*>> 8-bit
*>
*>        No. Email is a 7bit medium, if you want to transfer 8 bit data you NEED to
*>encode it somehow, uuencode and MIME are the most common ways of doing this.
*>TTYL

Email is not a 7 bit medium, and has not been for a while now, since the
new email rfcs have been published, years ago now, but some hosts in
certain countries insist on enforcing this because they can still pretend
that Europe (where 8 bit is obligatory), and large portions of Asia and
ex-Russia do not exist.

FYI outside NA nobody will dumb it down to 7 bits, the only expcetion
being binary data which is always uuencoded or mime encoded. Header data
such as user names and addresses isn't. If it would be it would break mail
delivery in so many places you wouldn't believe.

Peter

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2002\10\25@052738 by Peter L. Peres

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On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Paul Hutchinson wrote:

*>Straight ASCII is 7-bit only.
*>
*>If you allow 8-bit characters then it will have to be encoded (UUE or MIME)
*>to make it through internet mail servers.
*>
*>Paul

Yes but we have been there before. A lot of active list members have 8-bit
characters in, for example, their names. While 7-bit will surely pass,
8-bit is the minimum required to allow them to at least write their names
correctly imho.

Peter

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2002\10\25@060147 by Russell McMahon

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Changing the subject, I wonder (pointlessly) who holds the record for the
most consecutive posts to the list and how many it is?. This message is my
6th straight from PP. I see you did 8 recently Peter. (9 on 13/10). Probably
comes from offline replies and sent as a batch. Roman typically hits 2 and 3
at a time. I get the "occasional" burst out too. Maybe Jinx ?

       RM

> FYI outside NA nobody will dumb it down to 7 bits, the only expcetion
> being binary data which is always uuencoded or mime encoded. Header data
> such as user names and addresses isn't. If it would be it would break mail
> delivery in so many places you wouldn't believe.
>
> Peter

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2002\10\25@063536 by Peter L. Peres

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On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Russell McMahon wrote:

*>Changing the subject, I wonder (pointlessly) who holds the record for the
*>most consecutive posts to the list and how many it is?. This message is my
*>6th straight from PP. I see you did 8 recently Peter. (9 on 13/10). Probably
*>comes from offline replies and sent as a batch. Roman typically hits 2 and 3
*>at a time. I get the "occasional" burst out too. Maybe Jinx ?
*>

You are correct all my replies come from a batch run. This also explains
why I sometimes seem to respond out of order or to long dead threads. I
read and send my mail in batches and replies sometimes go out 24 hrs
later, in another batch.

Peter

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2002\10\25@114216 by Herbert Graf

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> *>        No. Email is a 7bit medium, if you want to transfer 8
> bit data you NEED to
> *>encode it somehow, uuencode and MIME are the most common ways
> of doing this.
> *>TTYL
>
> Email is not a 7 bit medium, and has not been for a while now, since the
> new email rfcs have been published, years ago now, but some hosts in
> certain countries insist on enforcing this because they can still pretend
> that Europe (where 8 bit is obligatory), and large portions of Asia and
> ex-Russia do not exist.

       RFC stands for "request for comment", it is not an absolute law that all
have to follow, and as you state not all follow it. It doesn't matter what
the RFC states anyways, if you're dealing with an email server that only
passes 7bits then that is all. I believe that to rely on email one must
accept the lowest common denominator, and that is 7bit. That is why I still
consider email to be an 8bit medium. While you may get "lucky" and get a
server that passes 8bit you should NOT rely on that.

       You can send in 8bit, as long as you realize that not all will see your
message as you expect. This is unfortunate, but fact. TTYL

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2002\10\25@120519 by William Chops Westfield

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   RFC stands for "request for comment", it is not an absolute law that
   all have to follow, and as you state not all follow it.

Ah... Each RFC has a status, ranging from "April Fools joke" to "STANDARD."
You can even publish "informational" RFCs that specifically decline to
accept comments, if you want to document a proprietary protocol, for
instance.


   You can send in 8bit, as long as you realize that not all will see your
   message as you expect. This is unfortunate, but fact. TTYL

Of course, you can use "8-bit" encoding, while only sending (or mostly
sending) 7-bit ascii, which seems to be what most users of 8-bit encoding
do.  And the "what they see is not what you expected" problem you describe
is equally (or more) true of any encoded format as well, even more
unfortunately.  One of the problems with universally using something like
"quoted-printable" is that it HIDES the fact that you're using non-ascii
characters.

BillW

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2002\10\25@123342 by Herbert Graf

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>         RFC stands for "request for comment", it is not an
> absolute law that all
> have to follow, and as you state not all follow it. It doesn't matter what
> the RFC states anyways, if you're dealing with an email server that only
> passes 7bits then that is all. I believe that to rely on email one must
> accept the lowest common denominator, and that is 7bit. That is
> why I still
> consider email to be an 8bit medium. While you may get "lucky" and get a
> server that passes 8bit you should NOT rely on that.

       Woops! That should read "That is why I still consider email to be a 7BIT
medium." Sorry about that. TTYL

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