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'[OT]: Interesting article about US patents and Uni'
2005\09\15@052118 by Peter

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http://www.fortune.com/fortune/fortune75/articles/0,15114,1101810-1,00.html

Peter

2005\09\15@062155 by Howard Winter

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On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:21:17 +0300 (IDT), Peter wrote:

> http://www.fortune.com/fortune/fortune75/articles/0,15114,1101810-1,00.html

A fascinating article - and it reaffirms my aggreement with Shakespeare's exhortation: "First, kill all the
lawyers" !  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\09\15@081311 by John Nall

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Howard Winter wrote:

>A fascinating article - and it reaffirms my aggreement with Shakespeare's exhortation: "First, kill all the
>lawyers" !  :-)
>  
>
I assume you have read the play?  And recall that the reason they wanted
to "first kill all the lawyers" was that they were planning on doing
something illegal, and so wanted to get the lawyers out of the way
before they started?

The problem with lawyer jokes is that lawyers don't think they're funny
and no one else thinks they're jokes.  :-)

John

2005\09\15@091310 by Howard Winter

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On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:12:35 -0400, John Nall wrote:

> Howard Winter wrote:
>
> >A fascinating article - and it reaffirms my aggreement with Shakespeare's exhortation: "First, kill all the
> >lawyers" !  :-)
> >  
> >
> I assume you have read the play?  And recall that the reason they wanted
> to "first kill all the lawyers" was that they were planning on doing
> something illegal, and so wanted to get the lawyers out of the way
> before they started?

Look, taking a throw-away comment and digging into its origin just spoils it!  :-)

> The problem with lawyer jokes is that lawyers don't think they're funny
> and no one else thinks they're jokes.  :-)

Indeed...

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\09\15@132116 by Brooke Clarke

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Hi:

For many years I served on juries in the U.S.
Later I was involved with law suits and got a different perspective.

Note that all the witnesses must take an oath to tell the truth.

The jury takes an oath to tell the truth when being questioned as
prospective jurrors.

The lawyers (who are being paid) DO NOT TAKE an oath so lying is allowed
in court (see the movie "Liar Liar".  It's the job of a lawyer defending
a guilty person to make up some story (lie) to try and get them off.

Expert witnesses (who are being paid) show up on both sides of each case
saying opposite things.  But you don't see the loosing expert witness
getting charged with lying under oath.  Note there are expert witnesses
who no longer practice in their "expert" field, all they do is testify
in court at much higher hourly rates.

In any legal action the lawyers are careful to keep the case going for
as long as possible so that they can make more money.  I considered
getting a law degree and the person at the school said "it's like
getting a license to steal".

I wonder if lawyers in other countries take an oath in court to tell the
truth?

Also if in other places expert witnesses are hired by the court rather
than by the plaintiff and defendant?

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
--
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com

2005\09\15@135818 by D. Jay Newman

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> Note that all the witnesses must take an oath to tell the truth.

Yes, and we see how that works.

> The jury takes an oath to tell the truth when being questioned as
> prospective jurrors.

Yes.

> The lawyers (who are being paid) DO NOT TAKE an oath so lying is allowed
> in court (see the movie "Liar Liar".  It's the job of a lawyer defending
> a guilty person to make up some story (lie) to try and get them off.

Actually lawyers are considered an officer of the court. If the lawyer
lies, it can get them disbarred or under some circumstances even higher
penalties.

> Expert witnesses (who are being paid) show up on both sides of each case
> saying opposite things.  But you don't see the loosing expert witness
> getting charged with lying under oath.  Note there are expert witnesses
> who no longer practice in their "expert" field, all they do is testify
> in court at much higher hourly rates.

Yes, but in many fields there are multiple opinions about a given matter.
And unfortunately you are right about the professional expert witnesses.

> In any legal action the lawyers are careful to keep the case going for
> as long as possible so that they can make more money.  I considered
> getting a law degree and the person at the school said "it's like
> getting a license to steal".

That is too cynical. I know lawyers who do try to make the case as short
as possible. Under most circumstances they get paid *more* if the cases
are shorter (they can take more cases and a lot of the fee is in the up-front
work).

Yes, some laywers do this. Some engineers take money to approve under-
spec projects. Some consultants make mistakes. However, not *all*
lawyers, engineers, and consultants do this.
--
D. Jay Newman           ! Polititions and civilations come and
spam_OUTjayTakeThisOuTspamsprucegrove.com     ! go but the engineers and machinists
http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! make progress

2005\09\17@022843 by Gus Salavatore Calabrese

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Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:56:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "D. Jay Newman" <.....jayKILLspamspam@spam@sprucegrove.com>
To: piclistspamKILLspammit.edu
Subject: Re: [OT]: Interesting article about US patents and  
Universities in



> Note that all the witnesses must take an oath to tell the truth.
>

Yes, and we see how that works.
-- And seldom are they punished for lying


> The jury takes an oath to tell the truth when being questioned as
> prospective jurrors.
>

Yes.


> The lawyers (who are being paid) DO NOT TAKE an oath so lying is  
> allowed
> in court (see the movie "Liar Liar".  It's the job of a lawyer  
> defending
> a guilty person to make up some story (lie) to try and get them off.
>

Actually lawyers are considered an officer of the court. If the lawyer
lies, it can get them disbarred or under some circumstances even higher
penalties.

-- Lawyers are allowed to build a case for their client even if the  
client is
known to be guilty by the lawyer.  This is sanctioned lying.


> Expert witnesses (who are being paid) show up on both sides of each  
> case
> saying opposite things.  But you don't see the loosing expert witness
> getting charged with lying under oath.  Note there are expert  
> witnesses
> who no longer practice in their "expert" field, all they do is testify
> in court at much higher hourly rates.
>

Yes, but in many fields there are multiple opinions about a given  
matter.
And unfortunately you are right about the professional expert witnesses.

-- A expert witness is not hired unless they are going to say what  
the hire-or
wishes them to say.  My belief is that they know what they are supposed
say based on the position of the hire-or and that is what they say.


> In any legal action the lawyers are careful to keep the case going for
> as long as possible so that they can make more money.  I considered
> getting a law degree and the person at the school said "it's like
> getting a license to steal".
>

That is too cynical. I know lawyers who do try to make the case as short
as possible. Under most circumstances they get paid *more* if the cases
are shorter (they can take more cases and a lot of the fee is in the  
up-front
work).

-- Not cynical at all.  The point is that 80-90% of lawyers optimize  
for max income,
not best outcome for client.  I have seen this over and over.

Yes, some laywers do this. Some engineers take money to approve under-
spec projects. Some consultants make mistakes. However, not *all*
lawyers, engineers, and consultants do this.

-- AGSC




Augustus Gustavius Salvatore Calabrese 720.222.1309    AGSC
http://www.omegadogs.com   Denver, CO

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