Searching \ for '[OT]: How to make PCB at home?' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/pcbs.htm?key=pcb
Search entire site for: 'How to make PCB at home?'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[OT]: How to make PCB at home?'
2000\10\12@153458 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
David VanHorn wrote:
> >Interesting thought...  roll-your-own Gerber photoplotter, eh?  Given the
> >diameter of the average fiber, a larger pad could take a while to plot,
> >though.  Wonder if it's practical?
>
> Better than gerber, it's "Direct to PCB", making your audio amplifier sound
> more lifelike than you ever dreamed it could, by eliminating distortions
> caused by the intermediate processes. :)

Hmmm.

White LED with or without fiber optics, then lensing installed into
"different pens" with different apertures for larger spot sizes.  Some
plotters could "auto-load" different apertures this way.  Or a micro
zoom lens to create different aperture sizes?

Center these well, though - Tough, do-able.

Dubious on those Audio Amp claims, though - As we all know, Tubes are
what's necessary for reducing those distortions <LOL!>

 Mark

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
use spam_OUTlistservTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST




2000\10\12@154232 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
>
>White LED with or without fiber optics, then lensing installed into
>"different pens" with different apertures for larger spot sizes.  Some
>plotters could "auto-load" different apertures this way.  Or a micro
>zoom lens to create different aperture sizes?

Would a white LED expose as well as UV?


>Center these well, though - Tough, do-able.

Wouldn't the nib on the pen be already centered, and the right size?
IOW, a 3 mil pen should have an N mil hole right down the center already,
right? So it's just a matter of documenting the offset, and telling the
plotter it's got an "N" mil pen instead of what's on the label.




>Dubious on those Audio Amp claims, though - As we all know, Tubes are
>what's necessary for reducing those distortions <LOL!>

Just because YOU've got a tin ear... :)

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
use .....listservKILLspamspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST




2000\10\12@160249 by Lawrence Glaister

flavicon
face
The pcb photo resist is not very sensitive... many minutes of exposure
needed with typical UV sun lamps. I have been tossing the fiber delivery
method over for quite a few years... I would love to get hold of a UV laser
source to see if the writing speed could be made a reasonable value....
anyone out there have access to a laser lab at the university and could try
some trial exposures on standard sensitized pcb material?

Standard photo methods do not need nearly the same exposure times. Maybe a
white led probe and standard film would work in a plotter. The downside is
the darkroom chemicals required to develop the film.

Big laser available? How about the cnc approach by vapourizing the copper
right off the board.
=======================================================
Lawrence Glaister VE7IT             email: lgspamKILLspamjfm.bc.ca
1462 Madrona Drive                  http://jfm.bc.ca
Nanoose Bay BC Canada
V9P 9C9
=======================================================
{Original Message removed}

2000\10\12@162218 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
David VanHorn wrote:
> >White LED with or without fiber optics, then lensing installed into
> >"different pens" with different apertures for larger spot sizes.  Some
> >plotters could "auto-load" different apertures this way.  Or a micro
> >zoom lens to create different aperture sizes?
>
> Would a white LED expose as well as UV?

It would depend on the photosensitivity of the PCB's coating, good point
though.  Research before implementing <G>  Hmmm, UV LED's?  <G>  Blue
LED's are worth a look, you do want a good reliable even-intensity
spot.  Mini arc lamp?  <G>  I usually use direct photo transfer, no
expertise claimed, I'm brainstorming <G>

> >Center these well, though - Tough, do-able.
>
> Wouldn't the nib on the pen be already centered, and the right size?
> IOW, a 3 mil pen should have an N mil hole right down the center already,
> right? So it's just a matter of documenting the offset, and telling the
> plotter it's got an "N" mil pen instead of what's on the label.

Yep, true.  Optical path isn't guaranteed to be as centered as the pen
unless you MAKE it so, though.  Many pen feeders can grab a pen in any
orientation IIRC when they change pens?

> >Dubious on those Audio Amp claims, though - As we all know, Tubes are
> >what's necessary for reducing those distortions <LOL!>
>
> Just because YOU've got a tin ear... :)

Thanks a LOT!  <G>

 Mark

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
use .....listservKILLspamspam.....mitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST




2000\10\12@163917 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
>
>Big laser available? How about the cnc approach by vapourizing the copper
>right off the board.

Well, I DO have this 100mW argon unit sitting here....

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
use EraseMElistservspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST




2000\10\13@053439 by Alan B. Pearce
face picon face
>Big laser available? How about the cnc approach by vapourizing the copper
>right off the board.

>Well, I DO have this 100mW argon unit sitting here....

they are building the worlds most powerful pulsed laser just across the yard from me at the moment. Somehow I think that PCB manufacture will be even lower priority than an idle process though... {:))

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
piclist-unsubscribe-requestspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@063143 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Mark Willis wrote:

> Dubious on those Audio Amp claims, though - As we all know, Tubes are
> what's necessary for reducing those distortions <LOL!>
>
>   Mark

And here I thought all I had to do was use black Magic Marker around the
edge of my CD to keep the light beams from leaking out! (seriously,
someone swore that worked...  apparently they saw it on the Internet on
some audiophile site, which explains a lot!)

Dale
---
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
               -- Isaac Asimov

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
@spam@piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@064215 by Bond Peter S-petbond1

flavicon
face
> And here I thought all I had to do was use black Magic Marker
> around the
> edge of my CD to keep the light beams from leaking out! (seriously,
> someone swore that worked...  apparently they saw it on the
> Internet on
> some audiophile site, which explains a lot!)

No, no, no - it is a GREEN pen you're supposed to use.

And not just any old green pen, it has to be a specific type of green pen,
available from selected, overpriced stockists.

This was from some audiophile magazines a few years ago - you know, the sort
that debate the merits of titanium spiky bits vs "aircraft grade"
alumin(i)um to support the separates...

"The ear can't hear as high as that.
Still, it ought to please some passing bat..."

Peter

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
KILLspampiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@064843 by dre Domingos F. Souza

flavicon
face
>No, no, no - it is a GREEN pen you're supposed to use.
>And not just any old green pen, it has to be a specific type of green pen,
>available from selected, overpriced stockists.

       Nah, RED pen. The green one is for classical music, the RED is for hot rock and heavy metal. I've heard of a blue pen used for Blues, but I haven't heard it till now :o(


--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

       All the best!!!
       Alexandre Souza
       RemoveMExandinhoTakeThisOuTspaminterlink.com.br

--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@065500 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Bond Peter S-petbond1 wrote:

> > And here I thought all I had to do was use black Magic Marker
> > around the
> > edge of my CD to keep the light beams from leaking out! (seriously,
> > someone swore that worked...  apparently they saw it on the
> > Internet on
> > some audiophile site, which explains a lot!)
>
> No, no, no - it is a GREEN pen you're supposed to use.

You are right, I stand corrected.  It was indeed a specific green pen.

> And not just any old green pen, it has to be a specific type of green pen,
> available from selected, overpriced stockists.
>
> This was from some audiophile magazines a few years ago - you know, the sort
> that debate the merits of titanium spiky bits vs "aircraft grade"
> alumin(i)um to support the separates...

I swear, if I were less ethical...  if ever there was a market segment
populated by people with no technical knowledge, above-average gullibility
and too much cash for their own good, it's the car audio freaks.  I could
sell 00-gauge copper cable in different color jackets at a couple bucks a
foot if I marketed it right, as long as it was "optimized for thundering
bass"...

Dale
---
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
               -- Isaac Asimov

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@065921 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
> Dubious on those Audio Amp claims, though - As we all know, Tubes are
> what's necessary for reducing those distortions <LOL!>

Hot Source Fets Forever!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@083241 by Jinx

face picon face
> I swear, if I were less ethical...  if ever there was a market segment
> populated by people with no technical knowledge, above-average gullibility
> and too much cash for their own good, it's the car audio freaks.  I could
> sell 00-gauge copper cable in different color jackets at a couple bucks a
> foot if I marketed it right, as long as it was "optimized for thundering
> bass"...
>
> Dale

There ya go - business plan for 2001.

"Botkin's Wire And Swampland Boutique"

And yes, some people will buy anything - a local show here actually
found more than a few people who'd been suckered into buying and
paying for installation of spy-holes for clear glass doors

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
piclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspam.....mitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@085742 by Bond Peter S-petbond1

flavicon
face
> And yes, some people will buy anything - a local show here actually
> found more than a few people who'd been suckered into buying and
> paying for installation of spy-holes for clear glass doors

Not the "invisible installation" type?

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspammitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@090610 by Jinx

face picon face
> > And yes, some people will buy anything - a local show here actually
> > found more than a few people who'd been suckered into buying and
> > paying for installation of spy-holes for clear glass doors
>
> Not the "invisible installation" type?

Unfortunately for the red-faced owners, visible for all to see

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@094110 by mike

flavicon
face
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:34:05 +0100, you wrote:

>>Big laser available? How about the cnc approach by vapourizing the copper
>>right off the board.
>
>>Well, I DO have this 100mW argon unit sitting here....
>
>they are building the worlds most powerful pulsed laser just across the yard from me at the moment. Somehow I think that PCB manufacture will be even lower priority than an idle process though... {:))
..now there's a thought.... make the PCB by vapourising off the copper
you don't want!
--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@094312 by Russell McMahon

picon face
> Dubious on those Audio Amp claims, though - As we all know, Tubes are
> what's necessary for reducing those distortions <LOL!>

Hot Source Fets Forever!!!!!!!!!!!!


Always remembering that a lot of the tube versus transistor debate was
carried out before nice effects such as T.I.M. were appreciated. Even now
there's no guarantee that we are 100% certain how the signal processor
between (and connected to) your ears reacts to a given semi-arbitrary form
of signal handling.

I personally have always had a good working engineering hearing range up to
a bit over 10 kHz with a low pass filter that's staggeringly sharp above
this, so I'm not one to subjectively assess the merits of the various
claims.



RM

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTspamspammitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@103206 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
How's this:

1. Build a table that can move a PC board in one dimension in 1/300"
increments with no cumulative error.
[Old plotter anybody?]

2. Create a UV LED bar containing LED's on 0.1" centers. Over the LEDs is a
mask containing 1/300"+ holes on 0.1" +/- 0.0005" centers [this is the
tricky part :-)]. The holes need to be a bit oversize so that consecutive
stripes will overlap a bit.

3: Mount the LED bar over the PC board on the table. The mask can almost be
in contact with the board.

4: Attach the LED bar to an indexing mechanism that allows it to move
perpendicular to the direction the PC board in 1/300" +/- 0.0005 steps (with
no cumulative error).

Now, to plot the board:

repeat until done:

Run the board from one end to the other.
Index the LED bar one step.
Run the board back.
Index the LED bar one step.

I figure you should be able to move the board a good 1" (300 steps) per
second.
Reversing direction should be about 1/10 of a second, which should give you
plenty of time to index the  LED bar.

It only takes 300/0.1 = 30 passes to do the entire board.

Thus, a 5" board would take about:

30 passes/board * 5 " * 1"/second        ; for scanning
+ 30 passes/board * 0.1 second           ; for reversing

This comes to 150 seconds + 3 seconds = 153 seconds.

That's pretty fast.

Now you may find that due to lash in the PCB board that you need to do all
the 'writing' in one direction. This would double the time.

Also, this is assuming that  you can get enough UV intensity to draw this
quickly.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@105455 by staff

flavicon
face
Bob Ammerman wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Here's an idea Bob, how about use a laser to "scan" across
the board, with a spinning mirror. Sould be easy enough to index.
Then just move the board through in one pass, and the laser
scans across it and obviously turning laser on and off will
give the exposure. This system only has one axis motor to
move the board (less junk for me to fix later) and the spinning
mirror can be stepper/flywheel driven for easy indexing and very
low mechanical wear. Yes there will be some compensation needed
for the different laser "angle" from board centre to board edge,
but simply using a very high-res mirror indexing system with
software compensation would work.

Since this would scan the entire board it would work just
as well with pos/neg emulsions. Should be pretty quick, and
only one main expense for the board traverse axis, ie, rails,
linear bearings etc.

Hey, just thought, laser printers use a rotating lens and
laser that is probably suitable for photo emulsions since
it is suitable for the laser drum... You could kill an old
laser printer and apart from running it slower and using rails
for the board traverse (I wouldn't trust rollers) you would have
a real fine and reliable system...
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@120549 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
>
>I swear, if I were less ethical...  if ever there was a market segment
>populated by people with no technical knowledge, above-average gullibility
>and too much cash for their own good, it's the car audio freaks.  I could
>sell 00-gauge copper cable in different color jackets at a couple bucks a
>foot if I marketed it right, as long as it was "optimized for thundering
>bass"...

Most of the ones I hear have uncontrolled woofers, leading to flatulent bass.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
piclist-unsubscribe-requestSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@121222 by dre Domingos F. Souza

flavicon
face
>Most of the ones I hear have uncontrolled woofers, leading to flatulent bass.

       HAUHAUHUAHUAHUHAUHAUHAUHAUHAUHAUHUAHHUA, ROTF!!!


--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

       All the best!!!
       Alexandre Souza
       spamBeGonexandinhoSTOPspamspamEraseMEinterlink.com.br

--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
KILLspampiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@123254 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Most of the ones I hear have uncontrolled woofers, leading to flatulent bass.

Did you not know? that is the heartbeat of the aliens inside looking for some friendly people.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@125728 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Alan B. Pearce wrote:

> >Most of the ones I hear have uncontrolled woofers, leading to flatulent bass.
>
> Did you not know? that is the heartbeat of the aliens inside looking for some friendly people.

Then they will be sadly disappointed when I hurl water balloons (or more
unfriendly objects) through their open windows.

Dale
---
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
               -- Isaac Asimov

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
@spam@piclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@spamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@161553 by mike

flavicon
face
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:22:22 -0400, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

..erm not much faster than normal laser-print plus UV expose..... and
rather more expensive.

Oh, and 300DPI is not enough. You need 600dpi for decent quality - the
reason being that the normal PCB routing grid is 0.025" , i.e. 1/40
inch. 600 divides by 40, 300 does not, so you get uneven line widths
and clearences.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\13@185003 by Jinx

face picon face
> spy-holes for clear glass doors

Comedian Stephen Wright said he had a telescope as a spy-
hole so he could see who was coming to the door for 200 miles

In a similar vein  http://www.globexplorer.com  lets you zoom in on
satellite photos of your location (mostly US). So, better scoot
out and get those baggy Y-fronts off the washing line and the
engine block off the lawn

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
.....piclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTspammitvma.mit.edu




2000\10\14@170239 by Andy Howard

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Botkin" <TakeThisOuTdale.....spamTakeThisOuTBOTKIN.ORG>
To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTKILLspamspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [OT]: How to make PCB at home?


{Quote hidden}

It's worse than that. You can't just use any old pen you know, it has to be
a special green marker pen designed for the job.

Luckily some kind soul is selling these pens to the audiophile community for
the bargain price of 20USD.

Can I interest you in buying one? They also help avoid bit-corrosion on your
valuable data CDs.





.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
"[PIC]:","[SX]:","[AVR]:" =uP ONLY! "[EE]:","[OT]:" =Other "[BUY]:","[AD]:" =Ads




More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2000 , 2001 only
- Today
- New search...