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'[OT]: How does a wall "Stud Finder" work?'
2002\02\18@142029 by Kevin Fisk

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Anyone out there know how a wall "Stud Finder" works? I imagine a coil
with some sort of level detection but I am curious.

Cheers,

Kevin

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2002\02\18@143723 by Walter Banks

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Very short range Radar. Look at the Lawrence Livermore Lab
web site. It is very clever.

w..

Kevin Fisk wrote:
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2002\02\18@144132 by Tal Bejerano - AMC

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yeah coil and  a very sensitive circuit..
this is the right and the only way

Tal

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list [spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On
Behalf Of Kevin Fisk
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 9:18 PM
To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [OT]: How does a wall "Stud Finder" work?


Anyone out there know how a wall "Stud Finder" works? I imagine a coil
with some sort of level detection but I am curious.

Cheers,

Kevin

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2002\02\18@150711 by David Koski

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I can see how that would work for a steel stud.  But wood?

David

On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:38:49 +0200
Tal Bejerano - AMC <kooterspamKILLspamZAHAV.NET.IL> wrote:

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2002\02\18@151553 by Tal Bejerano - AMC
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wood studs in wall? maybe plastic, then no coil help :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list [.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On
Behalf Of David Koski
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 10:06 PM
To: EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [OT]: How does a wall "Stud Finder" work?


I can see how that would work for a steel stud.  But wood?

David

On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:38:49 +0200
Tal Bejerano - AMC <kooterspamspam_OUTZAHAV.NET.IL> wrote:

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2002\02\18@152414 by Eoin Ross

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They pick up screws and nails

>>> @spam@kooterKILLspamspamZAHAV.NET.IL 02/18/02 03:13PM >>>
wood studs in wall? maybe plastic, then no coil help :-)

Subject: Re: [OT]: How does a wall "Stud Finder" work?
I can see how that would work for a steel stud.  But wood?
David

> Tal
> Anyone out there know how a wall "Stud Finder" works? I imagine a coil
> with some sort of level detection but I am curious.
> Cheers,
> Kevin

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2002\02\18@153051 by Kevin Fisk

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Thanks Walter, I looked and came up with MIR. Very cool.

Incidentally I had a moment of brilliance (or rather the opposite) and
went onto Google and typed (amazingly) "Stud Finder Circuit" and came up
with...

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question271.htm

Title: I have an electronic stud finder and I am amazed at how well it
works. How does it know where the studs are?

Sorry for bothering the list - should have had this moment of
'brilliance' first.

Cheers,

Kevin


Walter Banks wrote:

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2002\02\18@153055 by Robert Rolf

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Differential Capacitance.
Basically 3 plates in a row hooked up to monostables. The difference in
capacitance between the middle and outter plates is sensed and displayed.
Stud finders also find patches in wallboard because the repair has a
different dielectric constant than normal wall.

Great invention. Can find pipes and wires too, if they're close enough to
the wall. Zircon also has a micropower radar based unit for use in concrete.
Has a PIC in it <G>.

Robert

Tal Bejerano - AMC wrote:
>
> wood studs in wall? maybe plastic, then no coil help :-)
>
> {Original Message removed}

2002\02\18@153059 by hard Prosser

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I have seen designs for 3 different methods. All are based on a small
change in the received signal. You "calibrate" to a non-stud position &
then a small change from this can be used to identify a stud.

Ultrasonic - Uses the reflection phase shift I think
Capacative - Uses the small difference in diaelectric constant to detect
the higher density material behind the cladding.
Inductive - Uses the change in Loss angle - I think - to determine the
position.

For metal studs,  some cable locators can also be used I believe.

Richard P




I can see how that would work for a steel stud.  But wood?

David

On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:38:49 +0200
Tal Bejerano - AMC <KILLspamkooterKILLspamspamZAHAV.NET.IL> wrote:

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2002\02\18@153426 by Al Williams

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The electronic ones don't require metal.

Read http://www.howstuffworks.com/question271.htm

Al Williams
AWC
* Floating point A/D
http://www.al-williams.com/awce/pak9.htm



> {Original Message removed}

2002\02\18@153856 by Jim

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These 'stud finders' actually find studs - they
work on the principle that a piece of drywall
with a stud it behind presents a much different
dielectric constant than a piece of drywall
without dry wood behind it.

An oscillator is constructed such that at least
some portion of both plates of a capacitor that
comprise part of a tuned circuit are presented
to the wall.

A 'reference null' is established first on a
piece of drywall that does not have wood
behind it - then a search for a stud can
commence.

Jim



----- Original Message -----
From: "Tal Bejerano - AMC" <RemoveMEkooterTakeThisOuTspamZAHAV.NET.IL>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [OT]: How does a wall "Stud Finder" work?


> wood studs in wall? maybe plastic, then no coil help :-)
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2002\02\18@155820 by Vern Jones

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David,

It finds the nails driven onto the wood stud..., unless the nails are
non-metalic....

Vern

Tal Bejerano - AMC wrote:
>
> wood studs in wall? maybe plastic, then no coil help :-)
>
> {Original Message removed}

2002\02\18@161008 by Rick C.

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You're right!
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question271.htm
Rick

Jim wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2002\02\18@215613 by Larry Williams

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The one I bought consists of a magnet on a pointer. Move the thing
around, find a nail, stud found!

David Koski wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2002\02\18@220105 by Jim

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You bought a 'nail finder'.

The question now is - how dead-on was the nail
to the stud?

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Williams" <EraseMEwizzzardspamBELLSOUTH.NET>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OT]: How does a wall "Stud Finder" work?


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2002\02\18@232420 by Dale Botkin

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On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Larry Williams wrote:

> The one I bought consists of a magnet on a pointer. Move the thing
> around, find a nail, stud found!

Unfortunately if someone like me nailed up the drywall, you may have just
found one edge of said stud.  Fortunately I don't build houses for a
living.  I prefer the cpacitive/inductive/whatever type that finds the
edges and the middle of the stud.

Dale

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2002\02\19@003851 by Larry Williams

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I didn't build it, just bought it to see if it worked. Give the people
that built it the grief. Someone asked how they worked. I had one,
that's how it worked, I responded with the low tech info I had.  I guess
you could tack a pic to the pointer and make it work better.

Dale Botkin wrote:
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2002\02\19@013716 by Larry Williams

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Sorry, but the package said "Stud Finder". If you have nails, you
usually have studs. If in doubt, just tap it with a hammer and you can
find the center of the stud just by echolocation. Use your ears.

Jim wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > > > {Original Message removed}

2002\02\19@105531 by Jim

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  "Use your ears."

Hey!

I've been using that technique for years - and on roofs
too, to find the supporting 2 x 6 sloping members for
putting up roof-mounted antenna tipods and guy-wire
anchors.

You would be surprised how ACCURATE tapping with a
hammer can be!

On much of this you are preaching to the choir - and
it's still a 'nail finder' no matter the manufacturers
labeling (perhaps they should be compelled to the 'truth
in labelling laws!).

You also realize that there are a lot of us on the PIC
list that are after the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth (on some days) - so don't let
our pointed addresses get too deeply under your skin.

Stay light(hearted).

Jim

PS. I (this is just *me* now) wouldn't call it "echo
location", but rather, I look for a change in 'tonal
quality' from tapping wood (when doing a roof anyway)
with no support behind it to wood with a 2 x 6 behind
it. Again, that's just *me*.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Williams" <spamBeGonewizzzardSTOPspamspamEraseMEBELLSOUTH.NET>
To: <KILLspamPICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [OT]: How does a wall "Stud Finder" work?


{Quote hidden}

> > > > > {Original Message removed}

2002\02\19@124932 by John Walshe

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If you want to search for the nails then you could play with the CS209A. I
can't remember who makes it but it is ideal for  short range metal
detection -> it'll find those buried wires and pipes also!

John

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2002\02\19@180931 by Peter L. Peres

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>The one I bought consists of a magnet on a pointer. Move the thing
>around, find a nail, stud found!

;-). This is the new version used since the knuckle-knocking method was
obsoleted <g> Also never use a tool handle for knocking to find the
heavier sound of the stud ... it's 'inappropriate'. You have to use proper
certified electronic tools.

Grid dip meters can be used to find hollows, pipes and also metal in
walls.  The exposed coil is sensitive to both E and H perturbations. I did
this and it works fine.

Peter

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