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'[OT]: File syncronization / SyncToy'
2007\06\21@221615 by Vitaliy

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Microsoft's SyncToy works great, but I don't like the droppings that it
leaves in every directory it touches ("SynctoyID.txt"). Is there a way to
turn off this option, or can someone suggest an alternative? Especially one
that can syncronize folders automatically (every so often?)

I used VU brief before:

http://www.vu-brief.spb.ru/eng/index.htm

but it's got this clunky feel to it..

2007\06\21@232836 by Alex Harford

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rsync is the Unix world's version, there may be a Win32 port, or you
could run it through cygwin.

On 6/21/07, Vitaliy <spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTspammaksimov.org> wrote:
> Microsoft's SyncToy works great, but I don't like the droppings that it
> leaves in every directory it touches ("SynctoyID.txt"). Is there a way to
> turn off this option, or can someone suggest an alternative? Especially one
> that can syncronize folders automatically (every so often?)

2007\06\22@004400 by Tamas Rudnai

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I use FAR commander, F9,C,C and then copy over modified/new files.

Tamas

On 6/22/07, Vitaliy <.....spamKILLspamspam@spam@maksimov.org> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\06\22@014113 by Nate Duehr

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On Jun 21, 2007, at 9:28 PM, Alex Harford wrote:

> rsync is the Unix world's version, there may be a Win32 port, or you
> could run it through cygwin.

Unison is also a good alternative.  Cross-platform, and wicked  
stable.  Not 100% intuitive to set up, but works well once you're  
"there".

http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/

--
Nate Duehr
natespamKILLspamnatetech.com



2007\06\22@015744 by Kevin Timmerman

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FileSync

http://www.fileware.com/products.htm#FileSync


At 10:14 PM 6/21/2007, you wrote:
>Microsoft's SyncToy works great, but I don't like the droppings that it
>leaves in every directory it touches ("SynctoyID.txt"). Is there a way to
>turn off this option, or can someone suggest an alternative? Especially one
>that can syncronize folders automatically (every so often?)

2007\06\22@020410 by Kevin Timmerman

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For automation, use CmdSync (scroll down) with the Windows scheduler
(type "at /?" at a command prompt).


At 01:55 AM 6/22/2007, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\06\22@031411 by Russell McMahon

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>> Microsoft's SyncToy works great, but I don't like the droppings
>> that it
>> leaves in every directory it touches ("SynctoyID.txt"). Is there a
>> way to
>> turn off this option, or can someone suggest an alternative?
>> Especially one
>> that can syncronize folders automatically (every so often?)

XXCOPY (not XCOPY ) does  afair job of this. You have to run it on
each occasion but this can be automated easily enough.

Unfortunately, for jpg photos, if you rotate the image, which simply
alters the rotate bit, it sees the file as having changed and will
rewrite the old image from source. But, for many purposes it works
well.


       Russell




2007\06\22@043431 by Ariel Rocholl

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www.folderShare.com

Recently adquired by Microsoft, of course. It works great, have full speed,
really easy to configure and play with. It has two important limitations,
though: a) it has no sync advanced options, just will sync in both
directions. b) it needs to be activated in both ends.

I've been using it for quite some time and it is definitely recommended, if
you can live with its limitations.

Of course is free.


2007/6/22, Russell McMahon <.....apptechKILLspamspam.....paradise.net.nz>:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\06\22@050500 by Jinx

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Some suggestions here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_synchronization

2007\06\22@084259 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Vitaliy wrote:

> Microsoft's SyncToy works great, but I don't like the droppings that it
> leaves in every directory it touches ("SynctoyID.txt"). Is there a way to
> turn off this option, or can someone suggest an alternative? Especially one
> that can syncronize folders automatically (every so often?)

Alternatives I've used:

- xcopy: Other than Russell, I'd say there are situations where it does a
good job. Depends on your exact requirements. Windows, free.

- TreeComp <http://www.xs4all.nl/~lploeger/TreeComp3.htm>: A nice tool when
a lot of manual interaction is required. Needs a good network, as it
compares contents, but needs to run only on one machine (other than e.g.
unison). Windows, free.

- unison: As someone else has said, a good tool but needs some dedication
to set it up properly. Needs a server running on the other system.
Multi-platform, free.

- MirrorFolder <http://www.techsoftpl.com/backup/index.htm>: Has a number
of sync modes, ranging from one-way scheduled backup-type to software RAID
(maintaining a bootable mirror disk). Windows, costs.

Gerhard

2007\06\22@122513 by Russell McMahon
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> - xcopy: Other than Russell, I'd say there are situations where it
> does a
> good job.


Error.
Does not compute.
Sentence fails to parse.
Bzzzt.  ..............

I assume that "other than Russell" means something like "despite what
Russell said ..." or similar.

What I actually said was meant to scan as something like "XXCOPY is
extremely good (note that I'm not referring to Microsoft's XCOPY but
to a free for private use alternative that knocks XCOPY into a cocked
hat and kicks it down stairs, all before breakfast, and did I note
that it was free for private use?) and is free for private use".

XXCOPY has far far far more functionality than XCOPY.
The older versions may be more useable than the latest versions in
some situations.
And it's free for private use.



       Russell


2007\06\22@145309 by Vitaliy

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Russell McMahon wrote:
>> - xcopy: Other than Russell, I'd say there are situations where it
>> does a
>> good job.
>
>
> Error.
> Does not compute.
> Sentence fails to parse.
> Bzzzt.  ..............
>
> I assume that "other than Russell" means something like "despite what
> Russell said ..." or similar.

I think Gerhard meant "other than the problem that Russell mentioned, ..."
;-)

{Quote hidden}

It's free for what?..


2007\06\22@174228 by Matt Pobursky

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On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 03:56:28 +1200, Russell McMahon wrote:
> What I actually said was meant to scan as something like "XXCOPY is
> extremely good (note that I'm not referring to Microsoft's XCOPY but to a
> free for private use alternative that knocks XCOPY into a cocked hat and
> kicks it down stairs, all before breakfast, and did I note that it was
> free for private use?) and is free for private use".
>
> XXCOPY has far far far more functionality than XCOPY. The older versions
> may be more useable than the latest versions in some situations. And it's
> free for private use.

I've been using the "paid" version for about two years now to backup my
servers and network workstations. I run script files on the servers with
"Lauchpad" (an excellent and reliable scheduler) which calls batch files
with XXCopy commands.

One server is a backup server and mirrors the primary server every hour
plus does weekly off-site backups to a removeable hard drive. The primary
server does hourly, daily and weekly backups of itself and the 5 other
workstations on my network. It's all very efficient and just keeps working.
Theses are Windows 2000 systems, BTW.

You might think backing up 5 workstations every hour would be time
consuming and network intensive but because XXCopy has some extensive
differencing options the whole process only takes 6-8 minutes per hour.

It's awfully nice having automatic backups of everything back to the last
hour, day, week or month when you have one of those "oops" moments.
Obviously having a rotation of 4 weekly off-site backups is a good thing
too.

This is the best backup system I've had in 20+ years of my consulting
business. It's simple, reliable and works quietly in the background.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems


2007\06\22@191504 by James Newtons Massmind

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> You might think backing up 5 workstations every hour would be
> time consuming and network intensive but because XXCopy has
> some extensive differencing options the whole process only
> takes 6-8 minutes per hour.
>
> It's awfully nice having automatic backups of everything back
> to the last hour, day, week or month when you have one of
> those "oops" moments.
> Obviously having a rotation of 4 weekly off-site backups is a
> good thing too.

Does it have an option to store (not transmit, but store) only the
difference between an original version of the file and the current version?
E.g. if there is hugefile.dat and I copy it over once a month, then every
day copy over hugefile.dat.200706##.dif so that I have the ability to
restore to any point from the first to the last of the month and the space
requirement is not sizeof(hugefile.dat)*31 ?

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2007\06\22@224642 by Peter Todd

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On Fri, Jun 22, 2007 at 08:54:17AM -0300, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
> - unison: As someone else has said, a good tool but needs some dedication
> to set it up properly. Needs a server running on the other system.
> Multi-platform, free.

To clarify, unison needs a copy of unison available on the other system.

Unison can also sync two directory trees on the same computer. So you
could have an external harddrive which you sync to to move files around.

- --
http://petertodd.org
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2007\06\23@085753 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Peter Todd wrote:

>> - unison: As someone else has said, a good tool but needs some
>> dedication to set it up properly. Needs a server running on the other
>> system. Multi-platform, free.
>
> To clarify, unison needs a copy of unison available on the other system.

And this other copy needs either run there permanently as a service or
needs to be started before using unison. On *ix systems this is usually
done with SSH (which AFAIK is integrated into unison in a way that it can
start it automatically), but on Windows systems you'd either have to set up
SSH, run it permanently as a server process, or use some other means to
remotely start unison on the other system (e.g. SysInternals psexec,
Microsoft WSH).

FWIW, I use a batch file that starts both the remote instance (using
psexec) and the local instance.

Gerhard

2007\06\23@092315 by Matt Pobursky

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On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:14:56 -0700, James Newtons Massmind wrote:
>> You might think backing up 5 workstations every hour would be time
>> consuming and network intensive but because XXCopy has some extensive
>> differencing options the whole process only takes 6-8 minutes per hour.
>>
>> It's awfully nice having automatic backups of everything back to the
>> last hour, day, week or month when you have one of those "oops" moments.
>> Obviously having a rotation of 4 weekly off-site backups is a good
>> thing too.
>>
>
> Does it have an option to store (not transmit, but store) only the
> difference between an original version of the file and the current
> version? E.g. if there is hugefile.dat and I copy it over once a month,
> then every day copy over hugefile.dat.200706##.dif so that I have the
> ability to restore to any point from the first to the last of the month
> and the space requirement is not sizeof(hugefile.dat)*31 ?

I don't believe so James. XXCopy is basically a file copy program on
steroids, HGH and crack combined. ;-)

However the program does have some hundreds of command line options so you
might want to download the user manual (which is refreshingly complete and
thorough, unusual for software these days!) and see if that feature might
be hidden away somewhere.

I don't have many (any?) huge data files that change frequently and my
backup storage requirements are fairly stable with the workstations and
servers, only adding a little data each day and an occasional new
application. I looked at the total sizes of the data stored on my systems
and doubled it to size my backup drives. They are currently at about 60%
usage. The one computer I do have that has massive data on it is an audio
workstation in my basement lab. I do audio editing on it and also
store/serve all my MP3 files there. I back it up separately to an external
USB drive.

I supplement the regular file based backups with periodic images of my
system drives using TrueImage. This allows a quick recovery from system
drive failure (it's happened a time or two over the years). Most of my
computers have at least two hard drives and I generally try to keep only
system related things on my "C" drive partition, despite what Microsoft and
other software vendors would have you do.

The reason I was drawn to XXCopy was that I wanted something that would
make an exact copy of the files and remove all orphan files of every drive
and directory on every system on the network. It does that really well.

Mostly I'm trying to protect against data loss due to hardware failure or
"oops" moments. So far my way has worked well even though it may not be
optimum. It is automatic and just quietly sits there and works and that was
also a major consideration for me.

My "servers" are really nothing more than stripped down installations of
Windows 2000 workstation. When configured like that I've found Win2K to be
*extremely* robust. My main server has over 6 months of uptime right now.
My workstations are configured similarly and about the only time I have to
reboot them is if I install software that insists on rebooting. My network
is a simple peer-peer network and it's all I need.

Every other backup program I've tried (Novaback and Retrospect mainly) had
problems for me.

Novaback, while easy to setup and use would only use it's own scheduler and
it would occasionally crash. It also puked it's database once it got above
about 50 GB of backup data. I'm not sure I ever got a reliable restore from
it once I started backing up my whole network.

Retrospect I found to be really cumbersome to setup and restore from. It
has extensive backup options (including several different ways of doing
differential backups). Again, I really wanted something that just kept a
separate copy of everything I do and can restore simply and quickly.

Frankly, I found commercial backup software to woefully inadequate and
unreliable. I bought and demo'd many packages and they all had problems.
Either they were aimed at single workstation backups or full domain
networks with 100's of workstations ($$$$) but finding anything that was
simple, robust and cost effective for a small workgroup was pretty much
non-existent. That's why I ended up rolling my own.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

2007\06\23@205322 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Matt Pobursky wrote:

> I supplement the regular file based backups with periodic images of my
> system drives using TrueImage. This allows a quick recovery from system
> drive failure (it's happened a time or two over the years). Most of my
> computers have at least two hard drives and I generally try to keep only
> system related things on my "C" drive partition, despite what Microsoft
> and other software vendors would have you do.

If (disk) hardware failure is a concern, maybe try MirrorFolder. It's the
simplest to use software RAID I found for Windows. You have always a
bootable copy of your disk(s). (It's of course no replacement for a solid
backup strategy.)

Gerhard

2007\06\23@213312 by Vitaliy

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Russell McMahon wrote:
>>> Microsoft's SyncToy works great, but I don't like the droppings
>>> that it
>>> leaves in every directory it touches ("SynctoyID.txt"). Is there a
>>> way to
>>> turn off this option, or can someone suggest an alternative?
>>> Especially one
>>> that can syncronize folders automatically (every so often?)
>
> XXCOPY (not XCOPY ) does  afair job of this. You have to run it on
> each occasion but this can be automated easily enough.
>
> Unfortunately, for jpg photos, if you rotate the image, which simply
> alters the rotate bit, it sees the file as having changed and will
> rewrite the old image from source. But, for many purposes it works
> well.

Wow, XXCOPY indeed looks very impressive. I'll definitely try it out next
week.

2007\06\23@222257 by Peter Todd

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On Sat, Jun 23, 2007 at 09:23:49AM -0300, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
> > To clarify, unison needs a copy of unison available on the other system.
>
> And this other copy needs either run there permanently as a service or
> needs to be started before using unison. On *ix systems this is usually
> done with SSH (which AFAIK is integrated into unison in a way that it can
> start it automatically), but on Windows systems you'd either have to set up

You're basically right, but to be a little  pedantic about it the
standard way for apps like unison to work over ssh is for the app to use
the ssh remote command mechanism.  Essentially you can have ssh run a
remote command, instead of simply giving you a shell. The most simple
example is the scp command, ssh copy. If you do the following:

scp somefile remotehost:/tmp/

You local scp process runs essentially this:

ssh remotehost scp --server-mode

Then scp sends the remote copy of scp, running in the special "server
mode" commands to do whatever is needed. Unison is implemented the same
way, along with *many* other unix utilities.

What's neat about this mechanism is it makes the code very simple.
Permissions mechanisms don't need to be implemented, ssh does that all
for you. You also don't need to run a seperate server daemon process.

- --
http://petertodd.org
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