Post by thread:[OT]: Dude, where's my car ? Oh, that green guy's

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'[OT]: Dude, where's my car ? Oh, that green guy's '
2002\11\14@215532 by Jinx

I'm thinking about adding a dye-sprayer to a vehicle as a perp-squirter The idea would be to have a nozzle (or two) in the dash that would spray indelible ink on anyone not supposed to be there. Electrical and physical safeguards can be added so I don't end up on the receiving end I'm looking around for an ink that can be de-colourised (or removed) easily but not with anything common like soap or solvent. Something based on iodine perhaps, obviously but regrettably non-toxic Some ideas on a delivery system would be appreciated. My thoughts - Container - Syringe or piston Aerosol or atomiser Squeezed bag Driver - CO2 cylinder Motor Solenoid Best suggestion gets to hotwire the car for a test drive ===================================================== Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\14@230213 by Ashley Roll

Hi Jinx, Dude, where's your car! (sorry..) What about running a series of small tubes in the seat the pumping the dye into them when needed. Branch the tubes like a tree and leave open each end. Then place them so that the dye stains down the back of the seat and the bottom. :) Probably a bunch safer then anything else.. And the evidence is going to be REALLY embarrassing for the criminal. :) The trick is going to be getting enough through the tubes quickly so that the thief gets truly covered down the back and butt. Of course you'll need a new seat, but it may be worth it. And it will mainly be confined to the seat. Cheers, Ash. --- Ashley Roll Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd http://www.digitalnemesis.com Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718 > -----Original Message----- > From: pic microcontroller discussion list > [spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Jinx > Subject: [OT]: Dude, where's my car ? Oh, that green guy's got it > > > I'm thinking about adding a dye-sprayer to a vehicle as a > perp-squirter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\14@235826 by Jinx

> Then place them so that the dye stains down the back of the seat > and the bottom. :) Perhaps even let it flow from inside the roof lining, but that has its drawbacks It needs I think to get on the face and/or hands. I've been considering using a Gameboy camera + PIC to take stills too. With a flagrante delicto mugshot (smile, you're busted you bastard) and dyed skin as evidence it's gonna take a $1000/hr mouthpiece to get out of that one in court -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\15@005724 by Ashley Roll

Hi Jinx, Oh - It WILL get on their hands :) The first thing they are going to do it touch it! (then they will swear, then try to rub it off, swear some more.. etc, etc) And they won't be able to get the clothes off without it getting everywhere as well. Cameras - a friend of mine did that in his house.. he used a program that came with his camera that takes a few photos when it detects movement. He got broken into a number of times so he did this on the last one.. he actually placed the camera under a pile of books on the floor and there is this great shot of the intruder bending over to peer into this recess with a cable coming out.. beautiful mug shot :) Police came round and after the finished laughing at the expression on the guy's face said "Yep, we know him.. thanks" and that was that :) Cheers, Ash. --- Ashley Roll Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd http://www.digitalnemesis.com Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718 > {Original Message removed}

2002\11\15@010130 by Andrew Thoms

>It needs I think to get on the face and/or hands. Perhaps a foam covered steering wheel of some sort that oozes the die so when he/she grabs/squeezes it their hands get covered... again it means a replacement steering wheel Andrew -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@013138 by Jinx

> Oh - It WILL get on their hands :) The first thing they are going to > do it touch it! (then they will swear, then try to rub it off, swear > some more..etc, etc) And they won't be able to get the clothes > off without it getting everywhere as well Good point -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@021151 by Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff

Hey Jinx, I've often thought of doing what you are proposing, but I was going to use mace! It's readily available, legal (as far as I know), and will make the buggers squirm a little in pain! You just need pressurised canisters of the stuff and some 12V solenoid valves. Maybe a buzzer and a big 10mm LED starts to flash high up on the A Pillar (get their attention), then spray em right in the boat race! The only problem with anything like this type of system though is that they may come back (when they've recovered) and take revenge on your poor little car! Has something happened to you recently that has prompted the evil side of your creative mind to spring into action? :-) Cheers, Sean -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@021813 by Sean H. Breheny

Hi Sean, Do you really think it is advisable to install a system in your car that could possibly cause an accident? What if it goes off while you are driving? Even more likely, what if it goes off while the perp is driving and he runs into someone and kills them? Sean (do you think we need to start adding #1 and #2, like the Andy's ;-) At 06:11 PM 11/15/2002 +1100, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>Hey Jinx, > >I've often thought of doing what you are proposing, but I was going to >use mace! It's readily available, legal (as far as I know), and will >make the buggers squirm a little in pain! > >You just need pressurised canisters of the stuff and some 12V solenoid >valves. Maybe a buzzer and a big 10mm LED starts to flash high up on >the A Pillar (get their attention), then spray em right in the boat >race! The only problem with anything like this type of system though is >that they may come back (when they've recovered) and take revenge on >your poor little car! > >Has something happened to you recently that has prompted the evil side >of your creative mind to spring into action? :-) > >Cheers, > >Sean > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different >ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@030241 by William Chops Westfield

Potassium permanganate stains things a rather nice dark purple (or brown, once it's been reduced a bit.) It cleans up rather easilly with some acidic hydrogen peroxide (househole peroxide and vinegar; nothing exotic.) (This is an oxygen-releasing process that can be used to REMOVE stains, but it might also bleach some fabric dyes.) In dilute solutions (which are STILL deep purple), it shouldn't be TOO harmful (it's been used as an antifungal foot-soak.) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@032005 by Jinx

> Do you really think it is advisable to install a system in your car that > could possibly cause an accident? What if it goes off while you are > driving? Even more likely, what if it goes off while the perp is driving > and he runs into someone and kills them? It would very easy to isolate the system with double switching and cover the nozzle or whatever with a cap (like a trigger guard). And by the same token prevent the system deploying when the car is running or moving, even when armed. That could also be done with dual isolation. The usual remedy for stopping them is a fuel cut-off that lets them get a few yards I preferred the squirting to be done from the dash as there would be less chance of a lot getting on the upholstery. There must be a combination of dye / fabric protection (eg Scotchguard) / dye neutraliser that would work together. I'm not talking a Bentley with ostrich leather and rainforest panelling AFAIK Mace and other incapacitating sprays are still illegal in NZ. You will be prosecuted. So it has to be harmless but effective > The only problem with anything like this type of system though is > that they may come back (when they've recovered) and take revenge > on your poor little car! What can I say. If you do nothing, then what ? Chances are it'll be a joyrider, but it might not be. Probably something to check with the insurance company. If you aggravate a thief into doing damage, how would the insurance company view that. They're always looking for any little excuse not to pay up. But that still doesn't give some little scrote the right to do anything to someone else's property > Has something happened to you recently that has prompted the > evil side of your creative mind to spring into action? :-) No. I just don't like thieves. Especially the remorselesss little scumbags that seem to be around in hordes these days -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@032248 by Jinx

> Potassium permanganate stains things a rather nice dark purple > (or brown, once it's been reduced a bit.) It cleans up rather easilly > with some acidic hydrogen peroxide (househole peroxide and > vinegar; nothing exotic.) Cheers, that was on the list > (it's been used as an antifungal foot-soak.) And if the little darling's got his goldfish along as lookout it won't get fin-rot -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@035023 by Dominic Stratten

Heres a thought Alarm is triggered silently -> Doors lock and deadlock -> Ignition and fuel pump are cut -> Wait for car to come to standstill for safety purposes -> Smoke canister triggered causing temporary blindness in car -> High powered strobe activated to add to confusion and blindness -> Very loud siren (possibly voice asking to report to police) triggered. ->Mobile phone linked to GPS to dial owner of car reporting exact position. Using surplus stock and secondhand phone etc, you could do the whole lot for less than $100 Something I've always fancied doing :) -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@040310 by Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff

Sean, > Do you really think it is advisable to install a system in your car > that > could possibly cause an accident? You mean like an airbag? > What if it goes off while you are > driving? You mean like an airbag? > Even more likely, what if it goes off while the perp is driving > and he runs into someone and kills them? You mean like an airbag? - Well, then the 'perp' sues Jinx! :-) You are taking this thread far too seriously I think, Sean. Cheers, Sean -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@041344 by Jinx

> Heres a thought > Something I've always fancied doing :) I'm up for anything if it's safe, legal and annoying. PICs could be everywhere - my minions, my little flying monkeys. It doesn't have to cost a lot either -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@041759 by thys

You should come and spend some time in South Africa... Then you will take it seriously. I like Dominic's idea, But personally I think Some High VOLTAGE will do the trick... Wasn't there a movie with some thing like this?? Thys {Original Message removed}

2002\11\15@042936 by Chris Hunter

Dye is OK, but there is a MUCH more effective (and legal) solution. Fit a VERY LOUD klaxon inside the car that is triggered by your alarm. Make sure that the sound pressure when triggered is in excess of 150 dBm (SPL meter inside, and triggered from a safe distance). This may rupture the eardrums of the car thief (that's HIS problem), and if there's any question about the siren, you just claim that it exceeded the permitted levels for external use, so you fitted it inside the cabin to minimise noise nuisance! Chris {Original Message removed}

2002\11\15@043205 by Peter L. Peres

There are little ampoules of indelible red sold as G-shock sensors. They are attached on equipment that is rented. If the equipment is exposed to g-shock (like dropping a crate) the ampoule breaks and stains the unit indelible bright red (so the user can't replace another ampoule and get away with it). It's a US firm, maybe someone else on the list can help with the name. You could mount one of these on the ceiling and detonate sprinkler-fashion using a nichrome resistor wound around it I think. That would make it 'that guy with blood over his face and head got my car' I think. People oozing red ketchup all over their heads and faces tend to attract attention I think. I don't know about non-toxic. I hope it stings in the eyes at least. Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@045741 by Jinx

> I don't know about non-toxic. I hope it stings in the eyes at least You could add shampoo or lemon juice -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@050422 by Jinx

> You should come and spend some time in South Africa... > Then you will take it seriously No thanks - heard all about SA car-jacking and what's being done to dissuade (barbecue ?) thieves http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9812/11/flame.thrower.car/ > I like Dominic's idea, But personally I think Some High VOLTAGE > will do the trick... > Wasn't there a movie with some thing like this?? > Well, then the 'perp' sues Jinx! :-) Not in NZ he won't. Suing for damages in a case like that is virtually impossible. The (wimpy) system in NZ is Accident Compensation, which you can get even if you receive injuries in the commission of a crime. Yeah I know. More likely the police will charge you. It has to be a system designed with the head, not the heart. Much as you'd like flailing hooks, spearguns, Sarin.... -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@050835 by Dominic Stratten

Just in case anyone is interested ;-) http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/alarms.htm worth a look at the smoke bombs {Original Message removed}

2002\11\15@054917 by Alan B. Pearce

>Best suggestion gets to hotwire the car for a test drive Oh no Jinx, those Westies getting active again ?? -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@061333 by cdb

I have always fancied a PIC that disconnects the ignition and Steering wheel (steering wheel just spins not connected to the spline) and one of those nifty ISD voice chips saying 'YOU ARE A THIEF", 'HELP I'M BEING BURGLED, REGISTRATION XXXXXXX is BEING BURGLED' Now this could go one step further for those of you in London so when the Towaway sticker is slapped on the windscreen and the boot fitted, the car could squawk in a loud voice ' DON'T TOUCH ME YOUNG MAN' And when being hoisted onto the truck 'Oh the shame, the shame' Hmm I've got to surplus ISD 20 sec devices - Colin -- cdb, .....bodgy1KILLspam@spam@optusnet.com.au on 15/11/2002 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@063946 by cdb

Don't you mention THAT company in my presence . I am not a terrorist DESTROY oh sorry that was Dr Who wasn't it? colin -- cdb, bodgy1KILLspamoptusnet.com.au on 15/11/2002 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@065020 by Jinx

> onto the truck 'Oh the shame, the shame' If you want to shame the gangstas who steal cars, get the CD player to blast out Perry Como's most syrupy Christmas album so everyone can hear "What would your mother think ?" might be another candidate for an ISD. Most of them are of questionable parentage but they've all got mothers -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@070123 by Alan B. Pearce

>I've often thought of doing what you are proposing, but >I was going to use mace! It's readily available, legal >(as far as I know), and will make the buggers squirm a >little in pain! Well if you are prepared to write off the car :)) then how about having a "puffball" that is fired by a fireworks type cracker, that sprays pepper powder everywhere, gets in eyes, nose etc, makes them sneeze, possibly loose control of car, hence crash and write it off (if your lucky, them as well). The puff ball could be disguised as one of those deodorant balls that are available for making the car "smell pleasant", but once the cracker blows the top off (or some inquisitive miscreant takes it off to laugh at it) then something inside explodes the fine powder everywhere. Jinx said >AFAIK Mace and other incapacitating sprays are still >illegal in NZ. You will be prosecuted. So it has to >be harmless but effective This is where using pepper may be an advantage. You do like the smell of pepper, after all you have lots of it on your steak, etc :)))) >Alarm is triggered silently -> Doors lock and deadlock -> Ignition and fuel >pump are cut -> Wait for car to come to standstill for safety purposes -> >Smoke canister triggered causing temporary blindness in car -> High powered >strobe activated to add to confusion and blindness -> Very loud siren >(possibly voice asking to report to police) triggered. ->Mobile phone linked >to GPS to dial owner of car reporting exact position. Well I have thought of the possibility of locking all the doors etc, and then having a sound system at high power scream "Rape" and other such words. >But personally I think Some High VOLTAGE will do the trick... Even if it is just an arc running along the top of the dashboard - make them look, wonder what else is about to happen, just before the trembler coil under the seat gives them a jolt in the backside you mean :))) >This may rupture the eardrums of the car thief (that's >HIS problem), and if there's any question about the >siren, you just claim that it exceeded the permitted >levels for external use, so you fitted it inside the >cabin to minimise noise nuisance! I like it, but most of the little devils likely to be the miscreants that would take your car are probably already in this state with their eardrums anyway - but that might give you a legal argument that you did not damage their eardrums, they were already damaged :))) >Just in case anyone is interested ;-) > >http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/alarms.htm > >worth a look at the smoke bombs Now there is a thought. In the UK Maplin advertise smoke fluid for putting in those generators they use in discos. About GBP4.99 for a litre, and comes in two grades. If you had a resistor that you could organise to be glowing close to red hot, and drip this onto the resistor, hide the lot under the dash, so when they try and hot wire the car, much smoke issues from under dash :)))) The Maplin fluid is claimed to be water based, and not leave oily residue. Small fan to help waft it out from under dash, or maybe fire up the heater fan and send it out the vents :))) -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@073242 by Jinx

> >worth a look at the smoke bombs > > > Now there is a thought. In the UK Maplin advertise smoke fluid > for putting in those generators they use in discos Possiblity the perp could be fooled into thinking the car had a really serious problem -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@080437 by Ray Gallant

To help with that chip, you could consider paint balls and the gas tank door as camouflage. {slewrate} {Original Message removed}

2002\11\15@083914 by Alan B. Pearce

>Possiblity the perp could be fooled into thinking >the car had a really serious problem Exactly my thinking. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@084551 by Alan B. Pearce

>To help with that chip, you could consider paint >balls and the gas tank door as camouflage. OK so know we have the scenario: - 1. Perp gets in car, tries to hot wire and start it. Shuts door, and starts to drive off. 2. Doors get electronically locked, and ignition cuts out. 3. Smoke generator starts, and fills car with smoke. 4. Paint ball gun starts rapid fire at drivers position. 5. Weight sensor on passenger seat senses if passenger is present, and if so second paint ball gun rapid fires at passenger position. 6. Cell phone module phones owner with alarm message, giving current location of car. 7. External lights flash, siren, klaxon, and loudspeaker sound, giving audible and visual theft alarm. Any more we need to do??? -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@085143 by Dominic Stratten

ROFLMAO - not far off what I had in mind. One of the other suggestions I was going to make was to have a couple of electrodes just under the drivers seat fabric and a rapid discharge system of 30kv + when the alarm is activated. Bit of painful revenge there (especially if he's sweating by now ;-) That would be a bit mean though wouldnt it ? {Original Message removed}

2002\11\15@085804 by robert nelson

Inject a little Ethylene Glycol base anti-freeze/water mix in the intake will cause a dense white vapor out the exhaust getting a lot of attention. For short times 4 to 5 min. just change the oil and their is not supposed to be any permanent damage to engine.... Alan B. Pearce wrote: {Quote hidden}>>Possiblity the perp could be fooled into thinking >>the car had a really serious problem >> >> > >Exactly my thinking. > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different >ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > > > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@090108 by Katinka Mills

> -----Original Message----- > From: pic microcontroller discussion list > [.....PICLISTKILLspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Dominic Stratten > Sent: Friday, 15 November 2002 9:55 PM > To: EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [OT]: Dude, where's my car ? Oh, that green guy's got it > > > ROFLMAO - not far off what I had in mind. > > One of the other suggestions I was going to make was to have a couple of > electrodes just under the drivers seat fabric and a rapid discharge system > of 30kv + when the alarm is activated. Bit of painful revenge there > (especially if he's sweating by now ;-) > > That would be a bit mean though wouldnt it ? Not at all, in France they have the ignition coil conected to a woven cover in the rear seats of taxis. You play up, the driver turns it on and drives to the nearest police station where you are draged out. This system imobilises the leg muscles IIRC. Regards, Kat. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@090517 by Jennifer L. Gatza

> One of the other suggestions I was going to make was to have > a couple of > electrodes just under the drivers seat fabric and a rapid > discharge system > of 30kv + when the alarm is activated. Bit of painful revenge there > (especially if he's sweating by now ;-) Great idea - just make sure you test it VERY thoroughly under every possible situation - it would be a bummer if you accidentally tripped the alarm yourself. :) Jen -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@090932 by Dominic Stratten

Its not my leg muscles that rest on the seat Kat ;-) Could be a bit embarrasing with the police having to remove "hardened criminals" out of the car though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katinka Mills" <katinkaspam_OUTMAGESTOWER.COM> To: <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [OT]: Dude, where's my car ? Oh, that green guy's got it > > {Original Message removed}

2002\11\15@092146 by Ray Gallant

LMAO, Alan, hehehehehe Good one, I'm rollin' on the floor here. Joke made my day! Tx. {slewrate} ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan B. Pearce" <KILLspamA.B.PearceKILLspamRL.AC.UK> To: <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [OT]: Dude, where's my car ? Oh, that green guy's got it > >To help with that chip, you could consider paint > >balls and the gas tank door as camouflage. > > OK so know we have the scenario: - > > 1. Perp gets in car, tries to hot wire and start it. Shuts door, and starts > to drive off. > > 2. Doors get electronically locked, and ignition cuts out. > > 3. Smoke generator starts, and fills car with smoke. > > 4. Paint ball gun starts rapid fire at drivers position. > > 5. Weight sensor on passenger seat senses if passenger is present, and if so > second paint ball gun rapid fires at passenger position. > > 6. Cell phone module phones owner with alarm message, giving current > location of car. > > 7. External lights flash, siren, klaxon, and loudspeaker sound, giving > audible and visual theft alarm. > Any more we need to do??? -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@095026 by Alan B. Pearce

>One of the other suggestions I was going to make was >to have a couple of electrodes just under the drivers >seat fabric and a rapid discharge system of 30kv + when >the alarm is activated. Bit of painful revenge there >(especially if he's sweating by now ;-) OK so we need to add: - 8. After time period during which Perp is disorientated, confused and dodging paint balls, start trembler coil under sets, so Perp tends to leap in seat and receive paint ball hits in more tender regions. Now have I left anything off. 8) >Inject a little Ethylene Glycol base anti-freeze/water >mix in the intake will cause a dense white vapor out >the exhaust getting a lot of attention. For short times >4 to 5 min. just change the oil and their is not >supposed to be any permanent damage to engine.... I would look at injecting this into the exhaust pipe as close to the inlet manifold as I could get so the pipe is good and hot. Now what did I do with that spare diesel injector :)) -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@095637 by Roman Black

Jinx wrote: > > I'm thinking about adding a dye-sprayer to a vehicle as a perp-squirter > > The idea would be to have a nozzle (or two) in the dash that would > spray indelible ink on anyone not supposed to be there. Electrical > and physical safeguards can be added so I don't end up on the > receiving end Hee hee! That might leave you rather red-faced, so to speak. ;o) > Some ideas on a delivery system would be appreciated. My thoughts - Just about anything will provide a decent face squirting mechanism. A small CO2 cannister like used in soda bottle, a solenoid to puncture it and some tubing in your dash. My apprentices caught a young car thief near our shop in the carpark, tried to detain him but he got violent and got away. Mongrel. I did a security license course many moons ago, apparently as citizens arrest you are allowed to detain a crim if you catch them in the act, maybe the fact they are in your car qualifies for that? But if designing an entrapment system you might want to know that the standard way these mongrels operate is with a lead sinker on a string, goes straight through a car window and almost noiselessley. My apprentices got the joy of watching this mongrel do the act before accosting him. I really can't understand these losers. Once when unemployed (17 years ago?) I got so desperate I ended up at the sunday church free-food handout, it's amazing how good cheap soup and 2 day old bread tastes when you are hungry. But I didn't stoop to the level of stealing to eat. These guys steal for what? Boredom? The high voltage alarm sounds good to me, f^&% the NZ laws. -Roman -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@110145 by Nate Duehr

On Fri, 2002-11-15 at 02:11, Jinx wrote: > I'm up for anything if it's safe, legal and annoying. PICs could > be everywhere - my minions, my little flying monkeys. It doesn't > have to cost a lot either Heh heh, "my minions"? Been reading http://www.userfriendly.org again, or "Evil Geniuses for Dummies" again, Piotr? :- Nate -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@114548 by Bob Blick

Is crime really that rampant in New Zealand that you must go to such extremes? And will your insurance pay to clean up your car after your system has ruined the interior? -Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@142840 by Lee Jones

> Possiblity the perp could be fooled into thinking the car had > a really serious problem This could be a very usefull approach. Put a smoke generator on the exhaust system. Could be as easy as pumping oil in just past the catalytic converter. You want to create a high volume, blue smoke cloud. And it couldn't be construed as a direct danger to the thief. Thief might abandon your car quickly as unreliable. With a little luck, they would be stopped by the police for excessive polution... You could have a second PIC based unit that detected the police car's flashing lights and announced "I'm a stolen car" repeatedly. Lee Jones -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@162143 by Jinx

> Not at all, in France they have the ignition coil conected to a > woven cover in the rear seats of taxis. You play up, the driver > turns it on and drives to the nearest police station where you > are dragged out. This system immobilises the leg muscles IIRC I'm guessing that people who play up in taxis have legs that are halfway to being (self) immobilised anyway ;-) hic -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@162559 by Jinx

> These guys steal for what? Boredom? The usual excuse is <whine> There's nothing to do </whine> I reckon I had all the fun I could handle in the days before video games, VCRs, DVDs, skateboards, Internet, clubbing, easy booze, easy dope, cheap cars.............Even wet Sundays were OK, although everywhere except petrol stations were shut -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@163807 by Jinx

> Is crime really that rampant in New Zealand that you must go > to such extremes ? Getting a car stolen once is rampant enough. I'm still favouring the original dyeing idea, which isn't too extreme. And yes, petty car crime is pretty endemic > And will your insurance pay to clean up your car after your > system has ruined the interior? To Be Determined (if ruination can't be avoided, but it probably won't come to tthat) -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@194335 by Scott Touchton

Hmmm.... skateboards go back to the 40's. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jinx" <spamBeGonejoecolquittspamBeGoneCLEAR.NET.NZ> To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [OT]: Dude, where's my car ? Oh, that green guy's got it {Quote hidden}> > These guys steal for what? Boredom? > > The usual excuse is <whine> There's nothing to do </whine> > > I reckon I had all the fun I could handle in the days before video > games, VCRs, DVDs, skateboards, Internet, clubbing, easy > booze, easy dope, cheap cars.............Even wet Sundays were > OK, although everywhere except petrol stations were shut > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@204642 by Jinx

> Hmmm.... skateboards go back to the 40's. According to http://www.all-sports-posters.com/skateboard-history.html way before that even. (Google for +skateboard +history) but I don't think they were seen much outside the US. I first remember them being popularised in the early 70s when polycarbonate ones with urethane wheels came out (a friend had a plastics factory that was full-time for months making them) What's cool/lame goes in/out of fashion of course. A couple of years ago it was grown men riding scooters (what was THAT all about ?). Next year, who knows - Xtreme hula-hoops ? Off-road skipping ? -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@211805 by Gwynne Reddick

On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:45:23 +1300, Jinx wrote: >Next year, who knows - Xtreme hula-hoops ? Off-road skipping ? http://www.extremeironing.info/ -- Gwynne Reddick, RemoveMEgwynneTakeThisOuTmememachines.net on 16/11/2002 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@212009 by cdb

I remember inline skates around 1969 in the UK, then they were called Skeelers, a pair were bought as a birthday present for me - never saw them again until they were 'discovered' in the 80's. Now who had one of those blow up things that had two ears a stupid face and you sat on and bounced up and down on - had one of those for Christmas can't remember what they were called though, again another 60's thing. Colin -- cdb, bodgy1EraseME.....optusnet.com.au on 16/11/2002 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@213917 by Jinx

> http://www.extremeironing.info/ > Gwynne Reddick Ha ha. That's an awful lot of work for a piss-take but it's worth it Or as http://babel.altavista.com says "Raus from the handle chamber and then off in the mountains, under water, into the forest or into the large city jungle; creativity free run let completely iron and according to own rules or also as Meditationsuebung. The members of the GEIS have with their excursion ions not only ironed to the iron glow, but also plentifully photos shot, which arrange an alive impression of that variety and singularness of the extreme ironing for you" Things like the the "BUGELN VERBOTEN" sign are nice touches -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@214328 by Jinx

> Now who had one of those blow up things that had two ears a > stupid face and you sat on and bounced up and down on - had > one of those for Christmas can't remember what they were > called though, again another 60's thing. Vinyl Vicki ? What liberal parents you have -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@215402 by Gwynne Reddick

On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:17:54 GMT, cdb wrote: >Now who had one of those blow up things that had two ears a stupid >face and you sat on and bounced up and down on - had one of those >for Christmas can't remember what they were called though, again >another 60's thing. Space Hoppers (well over here anyway). Bought some for the Kids at Glastonbury this year. Gwynne. -- Gwynne Reddick, EraseMEgwynnemememachines.net on 16/11/2002 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@215820 by Gwynne Reddick

On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:38:02 +1300, Jinx wrote: >>http://www.extremeironing.info/ > >>Gwynne Reddick > >Ha ha. That's an awful lot of work for a piss-take but it's worth it > Or as http://babel.altavista.com says > Not a piss-take though: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2176024.stm A friend of mine just made a documentary about it - takes all sorts :) Gwynne -- Gwynne Reddick, RemoveMEgwynneEraseMEEraseMEmememachines.net on 16/11/2002 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@231753 by Jinx

> Space Hoppers (well over here anyway). Bought some for the > Kids at Glastonbury this year. Oh yeah, Space Hoppers. Hey Colin, did your Space Hopper have real hair ? -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\15@232205 by Jinx

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2176024.stm Ironing underwater though ? I know it helps to have the clothes a little damp but........... And who carries the 2 mile extension lead ? > A friend of mine just made a documentary about it - takes > all sorts :) Yeah, some of those documentary makers can be a bit strange -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\16@020739 by PicDude

Don't know if this has been mentioned on this thread already, but I have a device (not installed yet) that is rigged into the brake-lines, and locks the brake fluid in the lines with a key (when the car is exited). With the device locked, the brake pedal is depressed and this locks the brakes, so the car can't be driven. To bypass the system, a thief would have to cut the brake lines, which would make it undriveable. Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservspam_OUTKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2002\11\16@055649 by Peter L. Peres

*>----- Original Message ----- *>From: "Alan B. Pearce" <RemoveMEA.B.PearceTakeThisOuTspamRL.AC.UK> *>To: <EraseMEPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU> *>Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 9:45 AM *>Subject: Re: [OT]: Dude, where's my car ? Oh, that green guy's got it *> *> *>> >To help with that chip, you could consider paint *>> >balls and the gas tank door as camouflage. *>> *>> OK so know we have the scenario: - *>> *>> 1. Perp gets in car, tries to hot wire and start it. Shuts door, and *>starts *>> to drive off. *>> *>> 2. Doors get electronically locked, and ignition cuts out. *>> *>> 3. Smoke generator starts, and fills car with smoke. *>> *>> 4. Paint ball gun starts rapid fire at drivers position. *>> *>> 5. Weight sensor on passenger seat senses if passenger is present, and if *>so *>> second paint ball gun rapid fires at passenger position. *>> *>> 6. Cell phone module phones owner with alarm message, giving current *>> location of car. *>> *>> 7. External lights flash, siren, klaxon, and loudspeaker sound, giving *>> audible and visual theft alarm. *> *>> Any more we need to do??? Provide another phone in the car so the dying perpetrators can call for spiritual help. Peter -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2002\11\16@080211 by cdb

I knew if anyone was going to make a meal out of it, it would be Jinx :). Yes Space Hopper sounds right but I don't think they were called that in England - I was the only kid in the street to have one. Jinx - I think you should pop over to Hamburg - a couple of shops that might interest you - you can bounce up and down on your toy castle and no one will complain. colin -- cdb, bodgy1STOPspamspam_OUToptusnet.com.au on 16/11/2002 -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spamBeGonelistservSTOPspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2002\11\16@161803 by Jinx

> Jinx - I think you should pop over to Hamburg - a couple of shops > that might interest you - you can bounce up and down on your toy > castle and no one will complain. > > colin Thanks for the info. Always helps know someone who's been there done that. I wonder if that sort of thing goes on in Auckland ? Quite true what you say - it's just bouncy castles for grown-ups ================================================== Thanks to everyone for the car suggestions. Something(s) that draw attention seem to be the go. Smoke generator, a very noisy siren in/out of the car, dyes. The last thing a thief wants is everybody looking. It will be very easy to make a bespoke design tamper-proof too - no "I know how to get around this alarm" -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email KILLspamlistservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2002\11\17@003650 by William Chops Westfield

...a very noisy siren in/out of the car, dyes. The last thing a thief wants is everybody looking. Oh right. Noisy car alarms are wonderfully successful in the USA. (Not!) I guess it depends on whether you're trying to stop your car from being stolen, having your "stuff" stolen out of it, or perps doing $x000 damage to steal a $x00 stereo :-( BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu

2002\11\17@041602 by Jinx

> ...a very noisy siren in/out of the car, dyes. The last thing a > thief wants is everybody looking. > > Oh right. Noisy car alarms are wonderfully successful in > the USA. (Not!) I know what you mean. No one takes any notice. I've seen a doco about how much attention is paid. In one case TV "thieves" worked on a car in a busy English high street for almost 1/2 hour with the alarm going. No one challenged them, no one called the police, and they ended up driving off into the sunset. Hard to believe I know. But yes, the sun was actually out that day ;-) And if the alarm keeps going as the car's being driven ? If it can be driven that is. And there have to be at least 2 x 130dB sound bombs inside the car. Autodial cellphone is a definite possibility, especially if some how the car gets on the move. Possibly smoke too. I'm pretty mechanically-minded, so any modifications won't be too difficult. No more so than installing an off-the-shelf system The main object is to get them to bugger off and steal someone else's. Antagonising them isn't high on the list, in case it makes them do some damage -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList @spam@piclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@spam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

2002\11\17@063755 by cdb

Ahem, I am led to believe that Kiwi weather has remarkable similarities to the British weather! However it should be pointed out that if we have 4 days of continuous sunshine the water board declares drought conditions. We also have the wrong kind of snow falling on railway tracks and insist on having trees that shed their leaves all over railway lines in Autumn - much to British Rail (as was) surprise each year. British Rail were also known to have spent a rather large sum of money purchasing a leaf sweeping train from Sweden - conveniently forgetting that 1) The train used a pantograph - most SE lines are 3rd rail type so the nice metallic brushes on the wheels shorted out the track and 2) the train was wider than most tunnels in the South East - The solution was to widen some of the tunnels - and when the train still shorted the 3rd rail moved the train to the East to North run where overhead lines were used - except those lines didn't suffer from falling leaves. I wish I was intelligent, I could have had a job with BR.. Colin -- cdb, spamBeGonebodgy1KILLspamoptusnet.com.au on 17/11/2002 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

2002\11\17@132853 by steve

> > ...a very noisy siren in/out of the car, dyes. The last thing a > > thief wants is everybody looking. > > > > Oh right. Noisy car alarms are wonderfully successful in > > the USA. (Not!) > > I know what you mean. No one takes any notice. No one takes any notice of a car alarm because it is so common. Apply a bit of lateral thinking. (Look who I'm suggesting that too !) If you had an external speaker that started playing "Remember you're a Womble" (or similar kids theme) at PA volumes, lots of people would look and what self respecting thief is going to drive that down the road ? Steve. ====================================================== Steve Baldwin Electronic Product Design TLA Microsystems Ltd Microcontroller Specialists PO Box 15-680, New Lynn http://www.tla.co.nz Auckland, New Zealand ph +64 9 820-2221 email: TakeThisOuTsteveb.....TakeThisOuTtla.co.nz fax +64 9 820-1929 ====================================================== -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu

2002\11\17@141054 by Chris Hunter

----- Original Message ----- From: "William Chops Westfield" <.....billwRemoveMECISCO.COM> To: <RemoveMEPICLISTspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 5:35 AM Subject: Re: [OT]: Dude, where's my car ? Oh, that green guy's got it > Oh right. Noisy car alarms are wonderfully successful in the USA. (Not!) > I guess it depends on whether you're trying to stop your car from being > stolen, having your "stuff" stolen out of it, or perps doing $x000 damage > to steal a $x00 stereo :-( Perhaps you've missed the point - the trick is to have the siren INSIDE the car! The thief will not want to stay in the vicinity of the kind of sound pressure levels that are easily attainable. The fact that his eardrums may rupture is just a bonus! It's also ENTIRELY legal! Chris -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@spam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

2002\11\18@091113 by John

Hello Neil & PIC.ers, ..mmm.. IIRC this was tried many years ago in S. Africa, a few systems failed - and not to 'safety' either, they had the horrible tendency to lock up under speed - there were accidents, law suits, etc.etc... Take care. best regards, John {Quote hidden}>Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 01:03:04 -0600 >From: PicDude <TakeThisOuTpicdudespamNARWANI.ORG> >Subject: Re: [OT]: Dude, where's my car ? Oh, that green guy's got it > >Don't know if this has been mentioned on this thread already, >but I have a device (not installed yet) that is rigged into >the brake-lines, and locks the brake fluid in the lines with >a key (when the car is exited). With the device locked, the >brake pedal is depressed and this locks the brakes, so the car >can't be driven. To bypass the system, a thief would have to >cut the brake lines, which would make it undriveable. > >Cheers, >-Neil. e-mail from the desk of John Sanderson, JS Controls. Snailmail: PO Box 1887, Boksburg 1460, Rep. of South Africa. Tel/fax: Johannesburg, South Africa (011) 893 4154 Cellphone no: 082 741 6275 email: jsandEraseMEpixie.co.za Manufacturer & purveyor of laboratory force testing apparatus, and related products and services. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2002\11\18@162730 by Jinx

The idea is OK, sounds like somebody(s) bodged the job > IIRC this was tried many years ago in S. Africa, a few systems failed - > and not to 'safety' either, they had the horrible tendency to lock up under > speed - there were accidents, law suits, etc.etc... > > Take care. > > best regards, John > >but I have a device (not installed yet) that is rigged into > >the brake-lines, and locks the brake fluid in the lines with -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2002\11\18@164810 by William Chops Westfield

[cutoffs involving tying into the brake lines.] The idea is OK, sounds like somebody(s) bodged the job No, the idea sucks. If you're going to mess with a safety-critical subsystem in a system that regularly operates at easilly fatal energy levels, all in the name of security, then security better be safety-critical as well. I don't think preventing a stole car qualifies. Perhaps if we were talking about an armed tank :-) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2002\11\18@170224 by Bob Blick

The systems offered by car manufacturers seem to work pretty well. My car has an RF chip in the key. It doesn't matter what you do, the car is not going to start unless you have one of the trusted keys, and making it accept a new trusted key requires you to have two already trusted keys. Not to mention the sensors on doors and trunk that can tell if it's a key opening the car as opposed to something else. Added bonus: insurance discount for having factory anti-theft rather than add-on. But I suppose if you get your jollies fantasizing about how you're going to take revenge on evildoers, your system has the edge. -Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2002\11\18@170843 by Jinx

> [cutoffs involving tying into the brake lines.] > > The idea is OK, sounds like somebody(s) bodged the job > > No, the idea sucks. If you're going to mess with a safety-critical > subsystem in a system that regularly operates at easilly fatal energy > levels, all in the name of security, then security better be safety- > critical as well. I don't think preventing a stole car qualifies. Perhaps > if we were talking about an armed tank :-) > > BillW My comment was directed at the standard of workmanship rather than the application. However, an analogy in the same application would be designing a brake pedal that doesn't work or fails. Faults affecting safety are not unknown in the auto industry (Pinto, tyres, rollovers) I'm sure you can design a fail-safe system for the brakes. Whether you'd want to though....... ======================= A friend told me he put a BIG padlock and chain around the steering wheel/brake pedal of his commercial truck after hearing how easy it was to remove The Club -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2002\11\18@200202 by David Minkler

Bob Blick wrote: > The systems offered by car manufacturers seem to work pretty well. My car > has an RF chip in the key. It doesn't matter what you do, the car is not > going to start unless you have one of the trusted keys, and making it > accept a new trusted key requires you to have two already trusted keys. That's nice. Not very useful for those of us not buying new cars though. <snip> > But I suppose if you get your jollies fantasizing about how you're going > to take revenge on evildoers, your system has the edge. > > -Bob "get your jollies fantasizing..."? Actually, I thought Jinx's original suggestion was rather tame and he did limit it to "safe, legal and annoying." Dave -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2002\11\18@201028 by Bob Blick

> That's nice. Not very useful for those of us not buying new cars > though. Nothing to stop you from making a clever ignition lockout based on the same idea. > "get your jollies fantasizing..."? Actually, I thought Jinx's original > suggestion was rather tame and he did limit it to "safe, legal and > annoying." Squirting liquids within the car? I suppose not just animals mark their territory :) Cheerful regards, Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2002\11\18@205204 by Jinx

> > "get your jollies fantasizing..."? Actually, I thought Jinx's original > > suggestion was rather tame and he did limit it to "safe, legal and > > annoying." > > Squirting liquids within the car? I suppose not just animals mark > their territory :) > > Cheerful regards, > > Bob I hadn't thought of it in Freudian terms. I'm just a basic kinda guy, y'know. But we all do it in one way or another. If anyone has seen "Big" (Tom Hanks), you'd know how grossly a water-pistol can be used Now, I'm already clearly identifiable as a (relatively harmless) perverted reprobate/nutcase so I'll admit to peeing on the neighbour's cat that kept on spraying in my outside workshop to mark "its" territory It was one of those days and I couldn't take that stink anymore so I thought, OK, let's see how _you_ like it. Cat has not reoffended. Considering how cats clean themselves I almost felt sorry for it. Almost ================================ Just dug that hole a little deeper haven't I -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2002\11\19@004941 by Bob Blick

On 19 Nov 2002 at 14:49, Jinx wrote: > Now, I'm already clearly identifiable as a (relatively harmless) > perverted reprobate/nutcase so I'll admit to peeing on the > neighbour's cat that kept on spraying in my outside workshop > to mark "its" territory Let's suppose you have a _very_ benign squirting mechanism in your car, say water-based ink that you can neutralize, so later you can "unmark" your car. The thief is in your car, has gathered up your cellphone, palm pilot, and 2 meter transceiver, when the alarm triggers, and he gets squirted. How do your precious electronic gadgets escape this watering? It's probably best not to leave those type of tasties in your car in the first place, but you'll do it some time... Cheers, Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@044139 by Alan B. Pearce

>Not to mention the sensors on doors and trunk that can tell >if it's a key opening the car as opposed to something else. Oh you mean it is not a Peugeot 406 or a Volkswagen :)) There has been an expose here in the UK on the consumer rights program "Watchdog" of problems with these vehicles having an extremely large number of break-ins. On the Peugeot, it is possible to get into the boot (trunk for our stateside friends) by leaning on it somewhere, and then pushing the release. The impression I got is that pressure in the right place managed to push the mechanical lock to the unlock position, allowing the boot to be opened. On the Volkswagen, pulling on the door handle while fiddling with the lock somehow worked the central locking and wound down the windows, all in one action!! In one incident cited, the thief pulled up beside target vehicle, lent out window, fiddled locks lent through now open window on target vehicle, went through contents of glove box, got out of car, opened target boot, stole set of golf clubs, back in own vehicle and left scene, elapsed time 9 seconds, as checked on the security video. I have also heard a story about a businessman who managed to lock himself out of an expensive Mercedes. Standing by car pondering situation and along come a couple of kids. They offer to get into car for a tenner. Businessman reckons it cannot be done, but they are insistent. Finally he says they can have a tenner if they can get in without damaging the car. One kid grabs a reasonable size rock, slides under car and whacks electronics box underneath. Central locking suddenly leaps into life and unlocks doors. Apparently there is a G sensor that unlocks the doors in the event of an accident, and the electronics box containing it is mounted on the underneath of the car. :)) -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@112245 by David Minkler

Jinx wrote: <snip> > ... so I'll admit to peeing on the neighbour's cat that kept on spraying in my outside workshop > to mark "its" territory My hero! LOL Thanks, Dave -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@114553 by David Minkler

Bob Blick wrote: > > The thief is in your car, has gathered up your cellphone, palm pilot, and > 2 meter transceiver, when the alarm triggers, and he gets squirted. > > How do your precious electronic gadgets escape this watering? > > It's probably best not to leave those type of tasties in your car in the first > place, but you'll do it some time... All true. On the other hand, the goodies were toast the moment the thief saw them. Realistically, we have two choices here. Do we let the insurance cover the car and contents (eating the deductible) or do we do something to discourage the thief (perhaps making it easier for law enforcement to aid in said discouragement) from doing it again (probably also letting the insurance do its work)? Personally, I liked the "Perry Como Christmas music on the loudspeaker" idea. Regards, Dave -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@180224 by Jinx

> The thief is in your car, has gathered up your cellphone, palm pilot, > and 2 meter transceiver, when the alarm triggers, and he gets squirted > > How do your precious electronic gadgets escape this watering? > > It's probably best not to leave those type of tasties in your car in the > first place, but you'll do it some time... Well, that's always the advice - don't leave valuables on show. As I don't have any valuables that shouldn't be a problem. The only thing left is the stereo and a tuffboy bracket can be made for that. But I've heard of break-ins JFTHOI, which you can't avoid. It just makes you feel a little better that at least you tried not to be a victim -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@180830 by William Chops Westfield

I said this a while ago. When you're implementing your car security device, you have to have a real clear understanding of whether you're preventing the car from being stolen, or preventing things from being stolen from the car. A car, having glass windows, is fundamentally rather unsecurable. If someone wants to get in, they can, and anything removable inside the car is gone. Protecting the car itself from being stolen is compartively easy, but you have to understand that THAT is all you are doing... Protecting a car from being damaged is just about impossible... BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@183656 by Jinx

> There has been an expose here in the UK on the consumer rights > program "Watchdog" of problems with these vehicles having an > extremely large number of break-ins. One scene I'll never forget was a cocky pudgy boy racer so engrossed in telling the reporter how impregnable his car (behind him) was that he didn't even hear the two hired scruffs get in and steal it in seconds. The look on his face when the reporter asked him to turn around was a true Kodak moment Which just goes to prove you need to present the thief with the unexpected. If they've got any street smarts they'll move on to something easier -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@184101 by Jonathan Johnson

Yes but I think its much better to turn it round a bit and make the vehicles assailant have to think about damage to themselves if they damage your car......."the best defence is an offense"principle hold true very often Jonathan > {Original Message removed}

2002\11\19@190213 by William Chops Westfield

Which just goes to prove you need to present the thief with the unexpected. If they've got any street smarts they'll move on to something easier Ah, well. There you go. Big sticker that says "protected by high voltage and poison gas." It's quite illegal to actually DO that, but there are clearly people on both sides of the sticker who don't know that, and people who are crazy enough to do it anyway, and "street smarts" says maybe you should pick another car... :-) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@191019 by William Chops Westfield

>> Big sticker that says "protected by high voltage and poison gas." Oh yeah. Extra points for SIMULATED high voltage and poison gas! Love to see the look on some perp's face when jacobs-ladder-like noises start to come from the dash and misty-smoky "stuff" starts spraying out the AC vents. :-) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@191853 by 4HAZ

----- From: "William Chops Westfield" <billw@ > >> Big sticker that says "protected by high voltage and poison gas." > > Oh yeah. Extra points for SIMULATED high voltage and poison gas! Love to > see the look on some perp's face when jacobs-ladder-like noises start to > come from the dash and misty-smoky "stuff" starts spraying out the AC vents. > > :-) > BillW How about some protection for open jeeps? Like maybe a Speech synth that says something like "PERIMETER VIOLATION STAND BACK OR BE SHOT!" and then a machinegun raises from the rear and tracks body heat... Lonnie - KF4HAZ - -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@205213 by Russell McMahon

> Protecting a car from being damaged is just about impossible... WARNING: This vehicle contains - Antipersonnel systems liable to make intruders lives much less enjoyable for a substantial period after encounter. - A number of solid-state cameras logging all surrounding activity to a fully armoured video recorder. This unit is designed to survive destruction of the vehicle if necessary. Please smile. This would, of course, be seen as a challenge. You'd better ensure the armoured recorder really exists and works as intended when they burn your car :-) RM PS "What a mess. Have you been able to identify them? The petrol tank must have exploded when they torched the car. Who would have thought ?" [[Of course not, but it may help give vent to some repressed anger ...... :-) ]] -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@205423 by Jinx

> >> Big sticker that says "protected by high voltage and poison gas." > > Oh yeah. Extra points for SIMULATED high voltage and poison gas! > Love to see the look on some perp's face when jacobs-ladder-like noises > start to come from the dash and misty-smoky "stuff" starts spraying out > the AC vents > :-) > BillW High-pitched whine from the flash unit on a disposable camera (free if you ask a film processor) might get them thinking. And a small smoke generator under the hood. Perhaps even the smoke illuminated by a green LED as it's blown out of a vent, in the best tradition of the worst B-grade sci-fi flick. If nothing else it'll make them wonder what the hell they've broken into -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@210307 by Jonathan Johnson

Hey Jinx ur gunna like this...... has anybody else heard about the effect of a 12-13hz sound on the human body? if u get the frequency right it knocks u out (coma more to the point) .....just off frequency it gives u a migraine in seconds....and makes the human stomach resonate having the effect of making you spew your guts all over the place uncontrollably for round half an hour thought it may have application if you don't mind a bit of heaavy duty cleaning ;-) one of my teachers from yrs ago was involved in a study on it.....resonant frequencies of diff parts of the human anatomy.... hehehe nasty eh cheers JJ > {Original Message removed}

2002\11\19@210705 by Jonathan Johnson

LMAO......just pictured this with the effect of my next post....would put most car thieves in a mental hospital....lol JJ > {Original Message removed}

2002\11\19@210928 by Jinx

> - A number of solid-state cameras logging all surrounding activity > to a fully armoured video recorder. This unit is designed to survive > destruction of the vehicle if necessary. Please smile. > > This would, of course, be seen as a challenge. You'd better ensure > the armoured recorder really exists and works as intended Had thought about that. The in-car camera can send the pictures by RF to a receiver + RAM concealed away from the car. It needs only to be matchbox size, must be plenty of places within 10ft of a car you could secrete it. Maybe even under the car in the gutter. It could look like anything too. A lo-res 128 x 128 pixels picture is not a lot of information to send (2k bytes), could be done very quickly -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@211721 by Jinx

> has anybody else heard about the effect of a 12-13hz sound > on the human body ? Some police forces use infra-sound or have tried it for crowd control with the effects you describe. I don't know the size of the transducer though > thought it may have application if you don't mind a bit of heavy > duty cleaning ;-) I'll just pretend I'm a Saturday night taxi driver and get on with it If you really could make them queasy then introduce a few smells to cap off a memorable night > one of my teachers from yrs ago was involved in a study on it..... > resonant frequencies of diff parts of the human anatomy.... I've heard that career truck drivers suffer all sorts of soft-tissue and organ ailments caused by infra-sound -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@212803 by Jonathan Johnson

speaking of which....what is the law on the use of it? can we do it? or is it considered something along the lines of malicious assault or malicious bodily harm? we all kno it IS but how does the law see it? > {Original Message removed}

2002\11\19@214640 by Jinx

> speaking of which....what is the law on the use of it? can we do it? > or is it considered something along the lines of malicious assault > or malicious bodily harm? we all kno it IS but how does the law > see it? Trial by jury and you'd walk -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@215548 by Dave King

At 01:26 PM 20/11/02 +1000, you wrote: >speaking of which....what is the law on the use of it? can we do it? or is >it considered something along the lines of malicious assault or malicious >bodily harm? >we all kno it IS but how does the law see it? Thats easy to get around just borrow a step from Microsoft.... "By opening this package you hear by agree to......" Just need a little sticker on the window ;-] Dave -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@221930 by cdb

What about that nice new army truck just unveiled by the DAC corporation? It has mace spray, stun grenades, tyre puncturers the lot! Only 1 model in existence U$1M or if in production U$100K - modeled on James Bond DB2 gizmo's. Should Bin Ladle apply for one? colin -- cdb, RemoveMEbodgy1EraseMEspam_OUToptusnet.com.au on 20/11/2002 Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until they speak! -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@224903 by SM Ling

Instead of protecting the car from being stolen, protect the whole neighbourhood. Get rid of the people that steal (provided they are not too many and your car is cheap), guess everyone is busy thinking of all kinds of possible implementations now. Now it is adding additional dimension of fun to the electronics project. Cheers, Ling SM -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@234643 by robert nelson

Years ago I saw a car setting open on a chicago street. It had a sign on the dash that said " I AM AN ENFORCER FOR THE MOB. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THIS JUST TOUCH THIS CAR AND FIND OUT." It sat in the area for the whole week with the windows open and no one went closer then to read the sign and shy away from it. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\19@235521 by Jinx

> Instead of protecting the car from being stolen, protect the > whole neighbourhood. > > Get rid of the people that steal Haha. They're already in the "bad" parts of town. But when they're done stealing off their own they start exploring -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2002\11\20@004037 by Jinx

> Years ago I saw a car setting open on a chicago street. It had > a sign on the dash that said " I AM AN ENFORCER FOR THE > MOB. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THIS JUST TOUCH THIS > CAR AND FIND OUT." It sat in the area for the whole week > with the windows open and no one went closer then to read > the sign and shy away from it Saddam Hussein is said to have decreed a fancy golden public drinking chalice in a small village as "unstealable", under pain of who-knows-what. And so far it is. I'm not sure who's resolve I'd rather test - The Mob (who of course don't exist ;-) ) or Hussein There was an Aussie song ages ago called The Newcastle Song (I think) in which 4 blokes out for a night on the town get "monstered by a 9ft tall Hell's Angel". One of them leans out the car and says cockily "You know who you're pickin' ?" While he's thinking about it, off they go into the traffic. Nothing wrong with a well-placed bluff, but get ready to run for it if it gets called -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@030827 by William Chops Westfield

Instead of protecting the car from being stolen, protect the whole neighbourhood. Get rid of the people that steal ... http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20021117 Anyone got a cracked copy of... Oh, never mind. BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@053736 by Alan B. Pearce

>and then a machinegun raises from the rear and tracks body heat... Oh you mean you have already seen the new James Bond film .......... -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@061054 by Roman Black

William Chops Westfield wrote: > Ah, well. There you go. Big sticker that says "protected by high voltage > and poison gas." It's quite illegal to actually DO that, but there are > clearly people on both sides of the sticker who don't know that, and people > who are crazy enough to do it anyway, and "street smarts" says maybe you > should pick another car... What about Jinx' idea of the "in your face" liquid squirters, but instead of ink you can squirt a couple of pints of gasoline all over the car thieves... Then a loud recorded message; "Ignition in TEN seconds, NINE, EIGHT..." I don't think they will be hanging around long enough to steal the stereo. <grin> -Roman -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@064353 by Alan B. Pearce

>What about Jinx' idea of the "in your face" >liquid squirters, but instead of ink you can >squirt a couple of pints of gasoline all over >the car thieves... > >Then a loud recorded message; "Ignition in >TEN seconds, NINE, EIGHT..." > >I don't think they will be hanging around long >enough to steal the stereo. <grin> Pity that the smell of petrol lingers so long, this set me thinking, would you go diving into a car which produced the smell of petrol when you opened the door? A small amount in a dish some where, just enough to evaporate and leave the odour, without being enough to produce a combustible mixture..... Maybe add it to the smoke fluid :))) -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@081239 by Michael Rigby-Jones

> -----Original Message----- > From: Alan B. Pearce [SMTP:@spam@A.B.PearceRemoveMEEraseMERL.AC.UK] > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 11:42 AM > To: EraseMEPICLIST@spam@mitvma.mit.edu > Subject: Re: [OT]: Dude, where's my car ? Oh, that green guy's got it > > Pity that the smell of petrol lingers so long, this set me thinking, would > you go diving into a car which produced the smell of petrol when you > opened > the door? > *I* wouldn't, but think you overestimate the intelligence and general common sense of the average thieving scumbag. :o) Mike -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@085809 by Dal Wheeler

As a teenager I worked for a used car dealership as an automobile detailer. There was a fellow who traded in a station wagon that had actually been used to haul pigs around. It'd be *very* unlikely that anyone would steal that car; un-intelligent thief or not. {Original Message removed}

2002\11\20@101954 by 4HAZ

----- From: "Jinx" <joecolquitt@ -snip- > If you really could make them queasy then introduce a few smells > to cap off a memorable night Almond extract has the same odor as cyanide gas... Learned this while working with ferrocyanide which if the PH falls below a certain point (becomes acidic, or is mixed with an acid) releases cyanide gas, strong warning when working with this stuff, if you smell almonds get away fast. Lonnie - KF4HAZ - -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@103423 by Dale Botkin

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, David Minkler wrote: > Bob Blick wrote: > > > The systems offered by car manufacturers seem to work pretty well. My car > > has an RF chip in the key. It doesn't matter what you do, the car is not > > going to start unless you have one of the trusted keys, and making it > > accept a new trusted key requires you to have two already trusted keys. > > That's nice. Not very useful for those of us not buying new cars > though. Doesn't need to be new. Mine's five years old and has that, it was a lower-end model, and it certainly wasn't the first year it was implemented by this particular manufacturer. I do see your point, though, if your present vehicle doesn't have anything similar and you don't plan on replacing it any time soon. Dale -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@104458 by Dale Botkin

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Jinx wrote: > a small smoke generator under the hood. Perhaps even the smoke > illuminated by a green LED as it's blown out of a vent, in the best > tradition of the worst B-grade sci-fi flick. If nothing else it'll make > them wonder what the hell they've broken into As will a windbreaker with law-enforcement markings... maybe a badge and holster left partially hidden. Not a lot of cop cars get stolen. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@105459 by Dale Botkin

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Alan B. Pearce wrote: > >and then a machinegun raises from the rear and tracks body heat... > > Oh you mean you have already seen the new James Bond film .......... Hmm... what good would it do to have a machine gun tracking Halle Berry wherever she went? ;) (talk about body heat!) Dale -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@105705 by Dale Botkin

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, FalconWireless Tech Support - KF4HAZ wrote: > Almond extract has the same odor as cyanide gas... Neither of which your typical dumb-as-rocks car theif is likely to be familiar with. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@105706 by Mike Poulton

Dale Botkin wrote: > On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Jinx wrote: > As will a windbreaker with law-enforcement markings... maybe a badge and > holster left partially hidden. Not a lot of cop cars get stolen. That's wonderful! Nothing like an FBI jacket to make a thief wet himself. -- Mike Poulton @spam@mpoultonspam_OUT.....mtptech.com MTP Technologies KC0LLX -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@174755 by Philip Pemberton

Jinx wrote: > Thanks to everyone for the car suggestions. Something(s) that > draw attention seem to be the go. Smoke generator, a very > noisy siren in/out of the car, dyes. The last thing a thief wants is > everybody looking. It will be very easy to make a bespoke design > tamper-proof too - no "I know how to get around this alarm" Now I'm going to throw my 2p into the well. How about a 7805 regulator with its output pin shorted to GND. Then put a bit of hot melt glue on the back and mix some foul smelling stuff into it while it's setting. Power it up and use a 40mm fan to suck the foul-smelling air into the car's AC system. Make sure that once the thing trips, turning it off would involve removing the battery cables. Anyone seen those "Fart Gas" cans available at most joke shops (though I'd hardly call them a joke). Trust me - those things STINK. How do I know? Someone discharged half a can of the stuff on one of my wall-warts. Said wall-wart was disposed of due to the unbearable smell, especially when it was powered up. Later. -- Phil. spamBeGonephilpemEraseMEdsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\20@190955 by Benjamin Bromilow

I heard this quote on the radio recently (true story apparently).... Bloke goes to the football to watch a game. Two kids come up to him and offer to "watch" his car for him. He points to the big Alsatian in the back of the car and says "don't worry, he looks after my car for me". First kid looks at the second and goes "wow, a dog that can put out fires"..... Can't remember who it happened to....... {Original Message removed}

2002\11\20@204100 by 4HAZ

Another approach uses no sticker, no alarm, no "anti start switch", nothing obvious. I had a truck that had a neutral safety switch and a clutch switch (the result of changing from a 3 speed to a 4 speed. If it was started with both clutch down and in neutral everything was normal. But if started in neutral without pressing the clutch, or started in gear with the clutch pressed, a circuit was activated which gradually began to reduce power to the coil. Results it started ok, but before you could get out of the parking lot it would be misfiring and backfiring to the point it became undriveable. This made it appear not worth stealing. It was a fairly simple circuit, the key was a high power "P"channel mosfet source to B+ Drain to Coil+ Gate to a cap that was slowly charged through a resistor, when the Gate was no longer below the Source the Drain was fully open, but the cool part was while the mosfet was acting as a voltage controlled resistor and had it misfiring. $.02 Lonnie - KF4HAZ - -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2002\11\21@154011 by Benjamin Bromilow

> > I've heard that career truck drivers suffer all sorts of soft-tissue > and organ ailments caused by infra-sound > Certainly they have very low sperm counts but that's supposed to be due to very unhealthy diets (greasy spoon food), smoking, STDs and sitting on their testicles all day heating them up......... Ben -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2002\11\22@053106 by Jinx

> > I've heard that career truck drivers suffer all sorts of soft-tissue > > and organ ailments caused by infra-sound > > > > Certainly they have very low sperm counts but that's supposed to > be due to very unhealthy diets (greasy spoon food), smoking, STDs > and sitting on their testicles all day heating them up......... > > Ben Oh, I didn't realise many of them are hauling Jaffas. As a born- again cyclist I soon found out that could be one of the down sides so I redesigned my saddle http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/joecolquitt/boms.html Both of these work very well, the second is the one in use at the moment (for about a year). It gets some looks when parked, but looks don't make you ache ;-) There's a commercial version of the first saddle, which I didn't know about until after I'd thought mine up http://www.spongywonder.com/testimonials.html "testimonials" is an interesting choice of words - the origin of it is similar to "hand on heart", if you get my drift Although there aren't any PICs on-board yet, after studying the gear ratios maybe there's a place for automatic selection. On a 3-front 7-back set of sprockets there's so much overlap between the ratios it makes it tricky doing a smooth transition from low to high manually without a lot of lever flicking -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@spamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu

2002\11\22@061001 by Benjamin Bromilow

I can imagine the seats (yours and the commercial) might get some funny looks! Love the testi moaners... sorry testimonials.... A bit dubious about.... "In the male rider, single platform bicycle seats contribute to the development of prostate cancer and cause penile numbness and impotency because the male rider's weight is being used against him to permanently compress, and in some cases even crush, the arteries and nerves in his perineum (the area between the rectum and genitals)." I wonder if they got any evidence for this.... Perhaps I'm just too used to looking through documents with the references are at the bottom. Perhaps where they got it from (sorry, still perineally fixated!!!)..... At least now I can blame my bicycle seat rather than "...very unhealthy diets (greasy spoon food), smoking, STDs and sitting on their testicles all day heating them up........."!!! Ben >-- Original Message -- >From: Jinx <.....joecolquitt@spam@EraseMECLEAR.NET.NZ> >Oh, I didn't realise many of them are hauling Jaffas. As a born- >again cyclist I soon found out that could be one of the down sides >so I redesigned my saddle > >http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/joecolquitt/boms.html > ........ > >http://www.spongywonder.com/testimonials.html > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu

2002\11\22@063640 by Jinx

> I can imagine the seats (yours and the commercial) might get > some funny looks! All I know is, it's damn comfy, and warm too. In a hilly city like Auckland you don't get relief even going downhill on a normal saddle. It's so much nicer sitting back and enjoying the coast. Ideally I'd like it spring-mounted for extra comfort, Auckland roads are pretty crappy - maybe during the summer break I'll get busy The jocks I see in their yellow/black skin-tight spandex never look very happy. Neither would I with those skinny hard banana seats, no wonder they always seem to be grimacing and serious-looking > Love the testi moaners... sorry testimonials.... > A bit dubious about.... > "In the male rider, single platform bicycle seats contribute to the > development of prostate cancer and cause penile numbness and > impotency because the male rider's weight is being used against It may be true, maybe not. I read articles about Lance Armstrong's illnesses and some comments by other professional riders seem to suggest that they accept trouble "down there" as an occupational hazard -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestSTOPspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu

2002\11\22@072839 by Benjamin Bromilow

You can certainly get penile numbness from long bicycle rides but it tends to be short lived after the ride. I've not heard of impotence or prostate problems. I'm searching the books at work though... I might start walking again!!! Ben >-- Original Message -- >Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:36:29 +1300 >Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTEraseME@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> >From: Jinx <RemoveMEjoecolquittspamBeGoneCLEAR.NET.NZ> >Subject: Re: [OT]: Dude, where's my car ? Oh, that green guy's got it {Quote hidden}>To: spamBeGonePICLISTKILLspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > > >> I can imagine the seats (yours and the commercial) might get >> some funny looks! > >All I know is, it's damn comfy, and warm too. In a hilly city like >Auckland you don't get relief even going downhill on a normal >saddle. It's so much nicer sitting back and enjoying the coast. >Ideally I'd like it spring-mounted for extra comfort, Auckland >roads are pretty crappy - maybe during the summer break I'll >get busy > >The jocks I see in their yellow/black skin-tight spandex never look >very happy. Neither would I with those skinny hard banana seats, >no wonder they always seem to be grimacing and serious-looking > >> Love the testi moaners... sorry testimonials.... >> A bit dubious about.... > >> "In the male rider, single platform bicycle seats contribute to the >> development of prostate cancer and cause penile numbness and >> impotency because the male rider's weight is being used against > >It may be true, maybe not. I read articles about Lance Armstrong's >illnesses and some comments by other professional riders seem >to suggest that they accept trouble "down there" as an occupational >hazard > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList >piclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUT@spam@mitvma.mit.edu > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@mitvma.mit.edu

2002\11\22@142958 by Peter L. Peres

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Benjamin Bromilow wrote: *>You can certainly get penile numbness from long bicycle rides but it tends *>to be short lived after the ride. I've not heard of impotence or prostate *>problems. I'm searching the books at work though... I might start walking *>again!!! Apparently laptops are mooore dangerous than bicycles: http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/11/22/health.laptop.reut/index.html -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEKILLspammitvma.mit.edu

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