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'[OT]: Best small windows developer platform??'
2002\05\15@100435 by Roman Black

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face
Hi everyone, i'm looking for some advice. For years
i've coded in Turbo C and some PC assembler, and
now finally accepting that I need to start coding
windows apps that run on other peoples computers. :o(

Now after looking at C++ Builder and C# etc, it seems
they are over complex and web-obsessed. I don't want
to code large web databases, just small fast tools
that run under windows and preferably small stand alone
.exe files, that draw graphics (charts etc) to the
screen and control pins on the parallel port etc.
I've always coded up simple tools where I can connect
a PIC or other circuit to the par port and chart/measure
timing on inputs and outputs etc.

I've been playing with Delphi, the free 6.0 version,
but not real happy with that either. Any suggestions
from those of you that code up small simple tools?? :o)
-Roman

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2002\05\15@103135 by Joe Farr

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Well, Visual Basic is a possible option but it has it's own problems.
As an experienced VB programmer, I find it simple to use but I
appreciate that this isn't the case for everybody. From a development point of view, it has no native parallel port
support. You can get 3rd party DLL's to give you this functionality. For
Win95/98/ME users they seem to be available for free. NT, XP and 2000
users might have to buy some additional software.
Serial port support is available built-in.
The run-time is quite large, however, most people who run Windows will
probably already have it installed on their machine. Microsoft use it
within Internet Explorer and some other op-sys functions. Actual .EXE's
are quite compact.
The main advantage is that VB is a very popular language. You will find
plenty of books, code snippets and support available.
VB is a very forgiving language and will let you get away with murder so
if you just want to put applications together and not follow any formal
methodologies they VB might be you tool.
One thing to remember though is that Visual Basic 6 which was the last
version has been replaced with the .NET framework and whilst there is a
VB.NET it looks nothing like the original VB. The original VB's days are
numbered. Microsoft will pull support for it in a couple of years.



{Original Message removed}

2002\05\15@103554 by Claudio Tagliola

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Hi,

Go with Delphi. I know you're not happy with it, but for the kind of things
you want to build, I really would recommend that. I'm using all kinds of
languages, but Delphi has some advantages on getting somewhere very quickly.
About the rest, C#'s Visual Studio is a huge system hog and stuff like
serial ports are a real pain in the rear connector. Other option would be
Java, but same problem there with everything except internet connections (no
USB and serial ports are a huge problem). There are a lot of C++
conpetitors, but I never could code as fast as with Delphi.

Just give it another try, the concept of Delphi is fast and practical, so
small simple tools are a breeze.

Regards,
Claudio

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: pic microcontroller discussion list
[.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]Namens Roman Black
Verzonden: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 4:01 PM
Aan: PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Onderwerp: Re: [OT]: Best small windows developer platform??


Hi everyone, i'm looking for some advice. For years
i've coded in Turbo C and some PC assembler, and
now finally accepting that I need to start coding
windows apps that run on other peoples computers. :o(

Now after looking at C++ Builder and C# etc, it seems
they are over complex and web-obsessed. I don't want
to code large web databases, just small fast tools
that run under windows and preferably small stand alone
.exe files, that draw graphics (charts etc) to the
screen and control pins on the parallel port etc.
I've always coded up simple tools where I can connect
a PIC or other circuit to the par port and chart/measure
timing on inputs and outputs etc.

I've been playing with Delphi, the free 6.0 version,
but not real happy with that either. Any suggestions
from those of you that code up small simple tools?? :o)
-Roman

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2002\05\15@104010 by John Dammeyer

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Given the huge amount of 'strange' files that Microsoft C produces and
the time it takes to compile I've stayed with Delphi for quickie Windows
apps.  I've had to do some in both Microsoft generic C in DOS boxes and
also C++ as Windows Apps.  I'll take Delphi any time for convenience.
Compiles that finish before I lift my hands from the keyboard make
testing just fly.

John Dammeyer


Wireless CAN with the CANRF module.
www.autoartisans.com/documents/canrf_prod_announcement.pdf
Automation Artisans Inc.
Ph. 1 250 544 4950


> {Original Message removed}

2002\05\15@105015 by Bob Ammerman

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Roman,

Your best bet is probably Delphi or VB. Although both are quite complex you
can get by with a small subset of their functionality at first.

At this point I would try to avoid VB.Net and use VB6 instead, but YMMV.

btw: what is this about a free 6.0 version of Delphi?

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems


VB has the advantage that
{Original Message removed}

2002\05\15@105245 by Eoin Ross

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All freebies ... not sure if they will fit the bill - I am going to be trying them myself at home when the overtime slows down and I am not programming at work.

http://www.bloodshed.net/index.html "Dev-Pascal is a full-featured integrated development environment (IDE), which is able to create Windows or console-based Pascal programs using the Free Pascal compiler system (included with this package), or the Cygwin compiler."

"Bloodshed Dev-C++ is a full-featured Integrated Development Environment (IDE) for the C/C++ programming language. It uses Mingw port of GCC (GNU Compiler Collection) as it's compiler. Dev-C++ can also be used in combination with Cygwin or any other GCC based compiler."

http://www.janus-software.com/
Phoenix - VB like IDE for Linux

http://pages.cthome.net/xx/e.htm
"Envelop Basic is a clone of MS-Visual Basic running under MS-Windows 95 or NT. It includes a tutorial but is a " bit much " for a beginner trying to learn computer programming. For advanced programming it supports polymorphism, object inheritance, encapsulation, ODBC, OLE2, and MAPI. Considering it's absolutely free without any conditions makes it a good buy."


>>> fastvidspamspam_OUTEZY.NET.AU 05/15/02 10:01AM >>>
<snip>
Now after looking at C++ Builder and C# etc, it seems
they are over complex and web-obsessed. I don't want
to code large web databases, just small fast tools
that run under windows and preferably small stand alone
.exe files, that draw graphics (charts etc) to the
screen and control pins on the parallel port etc.<snip>
-Roman

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2002\05\15@110713 by Michael Vinson

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Roman Black wrote, in part:
> > Hi everyone, i'm looking for some advice. For years
> > i've coded in Turbo C and some PC assembler, and
> > now finally accepting that I need to start coding
> > windows apps that run on other peoples computers. :o(

Sorry if this is a repeat, as I haven't been following this thread,
but I am a big fan of Metrowerk's CodeWarrior. Has C, C++, Java,
Pascal, and you can cross-develop between Windows and Mac. Has all
the Windows API files. If you are coming from DOS with no Windows
programming experience, it will take a little up-front time
investment to figure it all out, but then you'll be up and running
with graphics, fonts, menus, dialog boxes and all that happy stuff.
Go to metrowerks.com for more info. They have a student version
("introduction to programming" or something) that's under US$100.
At least they used to.

Great thing about CodeWarrior is it is written by a bunch of
geeks/hackers who use it themselves (CodeWarrior is developed
under CodeWarrior). They have mottos like "Blood, sweat, and
code" and "Kicking butt and writing code". Gotta love it.

Michael V

Thank you for reading my little posting.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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2002\05\15@111316 by Roman Black

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Bob Ammerman wrote:
>
> Roman,
>
> Your best bet is probably Delphi or VB. Although both are quite complex you
> can get by with a small subset of their functionality at first.
>
> At this point I would try to avoid VB.Net and use VB6 instead, but YMMV.
>
> btw: what is this about a free 6.0 version of Delphi?


Thanks everyone for the quick replies! Firstly, the
Delphi 6.0 personal edition is now free at borland.com,
I got mine from a cover CD of an Aussie computer mag.
Its the full 6.0 personal that normally retails for
about $70 USD. You have to get a password online,
and they survey you (with possible spam later).

I'll keep playing with it, but one thing putting me off
is that it won't be easy to convert my existing tools
from Turbo C to Delphi pascal, maybe with C++ builder
there would be SOME hope of that, although i'm getting
more discouraged by the day...

For Claudio, you said Delphi is good for small simple
tools, I made the tutorial which is basically a blank
form with a load and save menu, the .exe is 500kb!!
The same thing in turbo C is about 10kb. Or am I doing
something wrong? I really would like to make small
.exe apps that I can email to people etc, but I can't
see how to make ANYTHING less than 1/2 a Mb!! :o(
-Roman

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2002\05\15@113226 by Alan B. Pearce

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>I'll keep playing with it, but one thing putting me off
>is that it won't be easy to convert my existing tools
>from Turbo C to Delphi pascal, maybe with C++ builder
>there would be SOME hope of that, although i'm getting
>more discouraged by the day...

I would have thought that with your Turbo C experience C++Builder would have
been a breeze.

I suspect that your real problem is dealing with the windows message
handling, which is rather a lot different to using printf() and others of
the same ilk. This makes it a whole new ball game whichever product you use,
and this includes VB and all the other MS development products. Some hide
some of the implementation things better then others, but there is still a
need to get "under the hood" to deal with your understanding of what it is
trying to do with the messaging.

My observation of the Borland products is that the C and Pascal products
(C++ and Delphi for the windows versions) are the same beast wrapped
differently to suit the different front end language. When you go through
the libraries you find they have the same names/variables/fields/switches
when you take the two products at the same generation level. When stuck for
details of one I have been known to look at the manual for the other to get
pointers.

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2002\05\15@113639 by Claudio Tagliola

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Hi Roman,

Ah, you mean small in size, not in functionality :) The downside of the
quick development is the executable size. You can get small utils, but you
have to revert to WinApi again and end up in the same mess as with standard
C++. There are some tutorials on google for getting small Delphi
executables, as small as the 10k's C++ variants.

Look at http://www.torry.net/samples_software.htm, a few screen down at 'How
to make a Small Size application v.1.00'. Think it'll work in D6 also, is a
fairly basic concept.

Best regards,
Claudio


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: pic microcontroller discussion list
[TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU]Namens Roman Black
Verzonden: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 5:10 PM
Aan: RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Onderwerp: Re: [OT]: Best small windows developer platform??


Bob Ammerman wrote:
>
> Roman,
>
> Your best bet is probably Delphi or VB. Although both are quite complex
you
> can get by with a small subset of their functionality at first.
>
> At this point I would try to avoid VB.Net and use VB6 instead, but YMMV.
>
> btw: what is this about a free 6.0 version of Delphi?


Thanks everyone for the quick replies! Firstly, the
Delphi 6.0 personal edition is now free at borland.com,
I got mine from a cover CD of an Aussie computer mag.
Its the full 6.0 personal that normally retails for
about $70 USD. You have to get a password online,
and they survey you (with possible spam later).

I'll keep playing with it, but one thing putting me off
is that it won't be easy to convert my existing tools
from Turbo C to Delphi pascal, maybe with C++ builder
there would be SOME hope of that, although i'm getting
more discouraged by the day...

For Claudio, you said Delphi is good for small simple
tools, I made the tutorial which is basically a blank
form with a load and save menu, the .exe is 500kb!!
The same thing in turbo C is about 10kb. Or am I doing
something wrong? I really would like to make small
.exe apps that I can email to people etc, but I can't
see how to make ANYTHING less than 1/2 a Mb!! :o(
-Roman

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2002\05\15@115137 by Mircea Chiriciuc

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Borland offers a free Delphi 6.0 version for home use and training only on
their web site.
Checkt it out. It's worth it. Althou they don't keep backeard compatibility
with older vesions of Deplhi (like Delphi 4.0).

Mircea Chiriciuc
EMCO INVEST

{Original Message removed}

2002\05\15@115657 by John Ferrell

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You can Download it for free (personal use only) at the Borland WebSite. The
restrictions are listed there as well. It is a very big download, it took in
excess of 24 hours for me on my 24K line.

I was a decent Turbo Pascal programmer prior to the Windows environment. I
suppose I just lack the motivation to struggle with Delphi|VB|VC|etc...

Maybe I need to look around for a Delphi List?

{Original Message removed}

2002\05\15@120727 by ichard Phillips

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> For Claudio, you said Delphi is good for small simple
> tools, I made the tutorial which is basically a blank
> form with a load and save menu, the .exe is 500kb!!
> The same thing in turbo C is about 10kb. Or am I doing
> something wrong? I really would like to make small
> .exe apps that I can email to people etc, but I can't
> see how to make ANYTHING less than 1/2 a Mb!! :o(
> -Roman

Hi,

it should probably be pointed out that the Delphi exe's are that size
because they're mostly self-contained - any VCL components that are included
in your project will be compiled into the program.

This is as opposed to the VB/VC++, where you will have to ship visual basic
runtimes (for vb programs), the .net framework or any used activex
components..

Delphi programs are a lot easier to distribute, with a lot less deployment
problems.

Unless you go into database programs - in which case you will have to
distribute one or more BDE/ODBC/MDAC/JET with Borland/MS created programs.


I've used VB, VC++ and Delphi professionally, and i definetely prefer
delphi.  The only problems that delphi has are that the IDE isn't as well
developed, and the supplied documentation doesn't stand up very well against
MSDN.

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2002\05\15@121848 by Roman Black

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Richard Phillips wrote:

> it should probably be pointed out that the Delphi exe's are that size
> because they're mostly self-contained - any VCL components that are included
> in your project will be compiled into the program.
>
> This is as opposed to the VB/VC++, where you will have to ship visual basic
> runtimes (for vb programs), the .net framework or any used activex
> components..


Thanks everyone for the Delphi comments. The site:
http://www.torry.net/samples_software.htm
That Claudio posted is excellent! There are a lot
of Delphi examples and the site loads quick too. :o)
Including how to not-use the 300kb Delphi file
include and use smaller faster stuff. I'm going to
keep playing with Delphi for the moment, although
having never used Pascal and being windows app
dumb it's going to be a steep learning curve...
-Roman

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2002\05\15@123449 by Bob Ammerman

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Roman,

FYI: I believe you should be able to use the free Borland 5.5 C++ compiler
to compile your existing "C" code (for the underlying crunching/logic) and
include it in a program created with Delphi (for the user interface, etc.)

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

{Original Message removed}

2002\05\15@123905 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
I don't know anything better than C/C++ RAD for ... RAD on Wintel. Learn
to use the two or three most important widgets (like canvases you can draw
on and a menubar) and ignore the rest.

You can use C code and even assembly with the RAD tools assuming you
learn how to write call convention compliant stubs in your assembly code
(with C it's just making proper header files for your code and then
calling your functions from widget handlers).

You can also learn TCL which you will hate because as a language it is not
so great (BASIC is considered superior - hint), but it is free and runs on
all major platforms and it leads to fast results. TCL is an interpreted
language. Go to http://www.scriptics.com. TCL is very popular among
script-writing people because you can write a GUI program in less than 20
lines of (barely readable) code. TCL is slow but you can call a DOS
program with it.

<aside> I find that I sometimes use tclsh as a shell to do things like
move files etc in Windows because it is much less braindead than the other
methods. tclsh is a part of TCL for windows </aside>

Now, for a question. I wrote a 'small tool' some time ago and it is now
broken. It uses INT 0x1C (timer tick) to do some calibration. It turns out
that this interrupt does not work anymore in W95. It used to work and it
stopped working after a reinstall. I've stepped through the code and it
does not work. There is no need to argue about it. Does anyone have a clue
about where to look ? Some INI file somewhere ? (the tool works as a DOS
program in a DOS window - running it in DOS mode will work but it used to
run in a command window, where I want it).

Peter

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2002\05\15@143512 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

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Windows interfacing and small/fast programs is a challenging combination. Up
to now I always used TurboPascal or DJGPP, both make small dos-based
executables with full hardware access, that can run on pre-NT windoze. I am
now switching to Python, which is huge to install (and it is an interpreter,
so you customsers must isntall it too, or you must use a compiler, which I
have not donw so far). But it is *VERY* convenient for writing programs,
using a mouse/windows gui or not. And portable to amost any platform (Mac,
Linux, etc). But not very speedy. And for NT-derived windows access to the
serial and parallel hardware is not easy.

Wouter van Ooijen
--
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
Jal compiler, Wisp programmer, WLoader bootloader, PICs kopen

{Original Message removed}

2002\05\15@144723 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Thu, 16 May 2002, Roman Black wrote:

>For Claudio, you said Delphi is good for small simple
>tools, I made the tutorial which is basically a blank
>form with a load and save menu, the .exe is 500kb!!
>The same thing in turbo C is about 10kb. Or am I doing
>something wrong? I really would like to make small
>.exe apps that I can email to people etc, but I can't
>see how to make ANYTHING less than 1/2 a Mb!! :o(
>-Roman

Write straight Pascal without linking to the forms libraries and you will
get what you want.

Peter

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2002\05\15@153528 by Matt Pobursky

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Roman,

Check out PowerBasic. Very compact applications, all functions
call Win32 API functions directly. I find it as easy to use as
Visual Basic, but the apps are literally 10x-20x smaller and
faster.

Their are several excellent freeware, shareware and 3rd party GUI
design tools for it. Powerbasic also hosts a VERY good online
user support forum. There are some serious Windows/Powerbasic
gurus there as well as several tech support people from
PowerBasic that participate in the discussions.

http://www.powerbasic.com

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems


On Thu, 16 May 2002 00:01:08 +1000, Roman Black wrote:
Hi everyone, i'm looking for some advice. For years
i've coded in Turbo C and some PC assembler, and
now finally accepting that I need to start coding
windows apps that run on other peoples computers. :o(

Now after looking at C++ Builder and C# etc, it seems
they are over complex and web-obsessed. I don't want
to code large web databases, just small fast tools
that run under windows and preferably small stand alone
exe files, that draw graphics (charts etc) to the
screen and control pins on the parallel port etc.
I've always coded up simple tools where I can connect
a PIC or other circuit to the par port and chart/measure
timing on inputs and outputs etc.

I've been playing with Delphi, the free 6.0 version,
but not real happy with that either. Any suggestions
from those of you that code up small simple tools?? :o)
-Roman

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2002\05\15@153656 by Matt Pobursky

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On Thu, 16 May 2002 01:09:40 +1000, Roman Black wrote:
For Claudio, you said Delphi is good for small simple
tools, I made the tutorial which is basically a blank
form with a load and save menu, the .exe is 500kb!!
The same thing in turbo C is about 10kb. Or am I doing
something wrong? I really would like to make small
exe apps that I can email to people etc, but I can't
see how to make ANYTHING less than 1/2 a Mb!! :o(
-Roman

Roman,

The requisite "Hello World" message box with OK button is a 6K
exe file in Powerbasic! :-)

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

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2002\05\15@162810 by Bob Ammerman

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You can tell Delphi to get its runtime library out of a DLL then individual
apps will be much smaller, but the DLL has to be distributed with the first
app. For tools on your own machine it isn't a problem at all.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

{Original Message removed}

2002\05\15@162816 by jamesnewton

face picon face
source= http://www.piclist.com/postbot.asp?id=piclist\2002\05\15\100435a

Roman, I hate to be the "crazy" who suggests this but.... If you are used to
C and ASM, you must understand how windows actually works. And if that is
the case, I would recommend mumble, mumble...

What? You couldn't hear me? I said... well, I said...

OK! ALL RIGHT! I LIKE Win32Asm with MASM!

There I said it. You can compile algorithms from C into asm and paste them
in. There are lots of App Generators that help with the user interface and
little GUI stuff.

And you end up with a kick ass programmers editor in a 27k download
(including the installer. the exe is 22k)
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nulifetv/freezip/freeware/edxor.htm

Or a full IDE for Win32Asm in 130k with every feature you can think of.
http://asmedit.massmind.org/

And it is NOT as hard as you might think. MASM makes API calls really easy
and the debuggers are truly AWESOME. The feeling of power you can get from
single stepping Windows is addictive.

Check out
www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=win32asm&id=1&go
http://win32asm.cjb.net
http://techref.massmind.org/language/masms.htm
http://techref.massmind.org/language/asm/debugs.htm

VB programmers might want to check out
http://www.powerbasic.com/products/pbdll32/ for 4k "hello world" single file
exe's and 150k full applications.

I don't do a lot of C coding for Windows (mostly SX, PIC and embedded x86)
but gcc is looking better all the time.

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2002\05\15@190541 by Tony Nixon

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picon face
Roman Black wrote:

> For Claudio, you said Delphi is good for small simple
> tools, I made the tutorial which is basically a blank
> form with a load and save menu, the .exe is 500kb!!
> The same thing in turbo C is about 10kb. Or am I doing
> something wrong? I really would like to make small
> .exe apps that I can email to people etc, but I can't
> see how to make ANYTHING less than 1/2 a Mb!! :o(

I've been using Delphi for years. I can zap up a quick apps in minutes,
such as serial comms for testing PIC code in just minutes. As with any
software package these days, there will be a learning curve, but stick
with it, I'm sure it will do well - plus it was free ;-)

The basic form is a big part of Windows and is very functional. Resize
it, draw on it, write on it, minimize it, etc. etc. etc. It obviously
takes a lot of code to implement. Just click on the blank form on the
IDE and press F1 to see how much makes up a form.

You can have formless applications which shrink the app size
dramatically.

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2002\05\16@022224 by System Administrator

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Hey,

I would suggest at least to take a look at http://www.rapideuphoria.com

It is a new language, which is interpreted, though, but is incredibly fast
and can be bound so customer has no chance to manipulate it. Has a
multi-platform facility (DOS/Windows/Linux), cheap (has even free
version), and the archive contains a vaste amount of applications. I teach
it now and the learning curve is very fine.

Here is my $0.02.

Regards,
Imre

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2002\05\16@023249 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

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> I would suggest at least to take a look at http://www.rapideuphoria.com
> It is a new language, which is interpreted, though, but is incredibly fast
> and can be bound so customer has no chance to manipulate it. Has a
> multi-platform facility (DOS/Windows/Linux), cheap (has even free
> version), and the archive contains a vaste amount of applications. I teach
> it now and the learning curve is very fine.

How does it compare to more established (and free) languages like Tcl/Tk,
Python/TkInter, Perl?

Wouter

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2002\05\16@035251 by System Administrator

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Hi,

I would say it is rather 3rd generation-like, similar to Pascal, Modula,
C. Very strict type checking and a strong runtime error handling (no
subscript error, etc). Allows some kind of OOP, and does not use
potentially dangerous programming constructs, such as goto and pointers. I
use it extensively, and there was not one crash! The post-mortem dump
allows to remedy quick and easy the most of programming errors, even
profiling is supported. Structured programming constructs available.
Orthogonal and non-orthogonal data structures could be easily mimicsd (or
so), with the unique concept of sequence they have introduced.

I hope I could answer your question at least partially.

Regards,
Imre


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On Thu, 16 May 2002, wouter van ooijen & floortje hanneman wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\05\16@060436 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

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> I would say it is rather 3rd generation-like, similar to Pascal, Modula,
> C. Very strict type checking and a strong runtime error handling (no
> subscript error, etc). Allows some kind of OOP, and does not use
> potentially dangerous programming constructs, such as goto and pointers. I
> use it extensively, and there was not one crash! The post-mortem dump
> allows to remedy quick and easy the most of programming errors, even
> profiling is supported. Structured programming constructs available.
> Orthogonal and non-orthogonal data structures could be easily mimicsd (or
> so), with the unique concept of sequence they have introduced.

> > How does it compare to more established (and free) languages like
Tcl/Tk,
> > Python/TkInter, Perl?

Apart from the strong type checking, which I like, it does not sound like an
improvement over Python, so I'll stick to my favourite :) (OO, some
functional constructs, iterators, HUGE range of libraries, TkInter, etc)

regards,
Wouter

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2002\05\16@113020 by Sergio Masci

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----- Original Message -----
From: Roman Black <RemoveMEfastvidspamspamBeGoneEZY.NET.AU>
To: <spamBeGonePICLIST@spam@spamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [OT]: Best small windows developer platform??


{Quote hidden}

Part of ZMechs core functionality is to allow users to add their own virtual
hardware mimics. This functioanlity extends to building complex front end
forms and dialogs using a simple drag and drop aproach (similar to VB)
connected to simple back end user written C/C++ code.

A fully functional virtual calculator (example GUI app) was produced using
this system and it required a mere 60 lines of internal interface code and
no external C/C++ code. The interface code is designed to allow a level of
abstraction so that the user can define his/her own protocol between the
front end dialogs and the back end buisness logic. In other words it maps
the widgets on the screen to the user code.

ZMech also comes in PIC flavours so it can be used for developing and
simulating PIC systems. Imagin a virtual hardware mimic connected to (and
tightly integrated with) a network of simulated PICs. When you are happy
with the debugged code and protocol, you can continue to use your mimic to
control a real network of PICs.

The interface used to add forms and dialogs to ZMech is called XEBOT. XEBOT
is written and maintained using XEBOT.

More information is available at http://www.xcprod.com/titan with the most
upto date information present in the PIC sections.

Regards
Sergio Masci

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2002\05\19@160114 by jim dewar

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face
you don't have to use the FORMS unit. you can code all the essential
things you need yourself. then your apps will basically be the same
size as your turbo c app.
but of course, you have to handle everything yourself. just like in
turbo c.

if you are really feeling adventurous, you could use asm to make win
apps. i think steve gibson (grc.com) does this.

one thing i started doing was using UPX runtime compressor for my
apps. basically shrinks them 50%. so a 500k app becomes 250k. i have
not noticed any performance issues.

my 2 cents.
moose.


---- Original Message ----
From: Tony.NixonEraseMEspamENG.MONASH.EDU.AU
To: RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU,
Subject: Re: [OT]: Best small windows developer platform??
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:02:16 +1000

{Quote hidden}

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