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'[OT]: - Firmware Maintenance Templates/Procedures'
2000\06\01@130153 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
>With all the hurry up and get it done, somethings gotta give.
>Usually, it's the documentation.  :-(:-( -WaLT

One of my colleagues reckons documentation is never finished - it has a half
life!

2000\06\01@131650 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
(Fixed the subject line, needed a colon after [OT].)

One thing I've seen that I mostly liked, in past, was in aviation safety
systems - the documentation was installed inside the source (.asm)
files.

IMO this is a good idea - This way the programmers could actually get at
& see the docs, and were in fact in charge of the documentation's upkeep
and maintenance (gasp!) - SO often, it's marketing or someone who knows
nothing about the code, who writes the manual etc., months later, with
no clue - And it ends up resembling the code's behavior SO little, that
it's rather pathetic.

They had a tool that'd extract the docs into a file that the
documentation people were allowed to get at, then had a nice tool that
re-formatted that text file into a properly formatted document.
Nowadays, HTML comes to mind <G>  Probably could treat it as a separate
"source code" file, and not include it directly into the code.  And the
extract document "compiled" (checked syntax) as a matter of course so
you couldn't "oops" without noticing, well, not too badly anyways.

And of course you could verify that you didn't mess up the code when the
docs were changed (compare the previous .obj files with current freshly
compiled version, should be identical) - twas on a Z80/80186 dual
processor machine.

You already know about concepts like bug report filing, bug
verification, change control boards, regression testing, and so on, I'll
assume, if you've seen what NASA has to offer.  (IMO some co's go way
overboard on paranoia on "If we fix a bug it'll just make 15 new bugs.",
I always feel my competence is being insulted, frankly.  Now, "If we let
management make decisions, it'll just encourage them", that definitely
has truth to it, for some values of management <G>)  Treat it like any
other system, look for gaping holes, and design something that's able to
cope with your organizations needs.

 Mark

D Lloyd wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

2000\06\01@135612 by Andrew Kunz

flavicon
face
>They had a tool that'd extract the docs into a file that the
>documentation people were allowed to get at, then had a nice tool that

We had such a tool for our design/coding stuff for the TERRIER Weapon Direction
System.  It was one of the coolest things around for its time.

They were called DADA's.

Andy

2000\06\01@154612 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
Along those lines, here is an assembly file marked up with enough HTML to
display properly in a browser...  (Small attachment!  Don't shoot me!)

It is an htm file so that I can simply click on it and see the document.  MPLAB
does care what extension a file has so I provided an extra language tool file
and modified microchip's language tool suite file to accept htm files.
(mpasm.mtc --> mpasmhtm.mtc with some modification and modified TLMCHIP.INI).  I
then installed my new language tool "MPASM(*.htm)" and now I can include htm
files as nodes in a project and assemble them under mplab.

-Adam

"Get the facts first, you can distort them later" - Mark Twain

Mark Willis wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\06\01@160520 by Andrew Kunz

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face
I didn't get the attachment.

Send me one please.

spam_OUTakunzTakeThisOuTspamtdipower.com?subject=HTMLsource

Thanks.

Andy

2000\06\01@160932 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
Hmm...  It appears as though my attachment didn't go through...

Go to http://www.ubasics.com/adam/pic/doc to see the files
asmfile.htm    The html formatted assembly file
TLMCHIP.INI    The modified language suite file for mchip
              (use it to replace tlmchip.ini)
MPASMhtm.MTC   The modified MPASM.MTC file
              (use it in addition with mpasm.mtc)

After copying the language files to your mplab directory, choose 'install
language tools' from the project menu.  Under the microchip lanuage tools, there
will ba an additional language, "MPASM(*.htm)".  Select that, and put in the
path to your mpasmwin.exe file.

-Adam

"M. Adam Davis" wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\06\01@163709 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
I thought Mike W. set the list to kill attachments?  Am I recalling
inaccurately?  (wouldn't be the first time, o'course.)

 Mark

2000\06\01@164740 by M. Adam Davis
flavicon
face
Well, there's a certian .pcx file that has been found on a few other messages,
probably lotus software attaching some sort of card or something...  see D Lloyd
<.....dan.lloydKILLspamspam@spam@GB.ABB.COM> 's posts.  So I didn't even think about the idea that the
list might've taken care of it.  I thought my computer messed it up...

But, I'm all for not allowing attachments on the list.  It would be nice,
however, to receive a message if my posting is altered in any way (ie, adding a
topic, deleting the attachment, etc)...  But I suppose there are some people who
can't turn off certian attachments (due to work policies, perhaps?) such as
vcard, which would be a pain for them to post and get a message back about their
deleted attachment every time...

-Adam

Mark Willis wrote:
>
> I thought Mike W. set the list to kill attachments?  Am I recalling
> inaccurately?  (wouldn't be the first time, o'course.)
>
>   Mark

2000\06\01@174038 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Yes, that's right.  Well, they're enabled, then;  I know we were
discussing the capability (Maybe Mike was going to gripe at L-Soft about
getting that feature ADDED?)  It's been an interesting day <G>

Usually best for longer attachments to throw them on a web page, of
course.  For short ones, inline's fine (50 lines, say?)

 Mark

M. Adam Davis wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

2000\06\02@023538 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
> They had a tool that'd extract the docs into a file that the
> documentation people were allowed to get at...

This was a standard feature of DEC "Runoff", at least for their 36 bit
computers.  It would notice that it was reading a source code file, and only
look at the comments, where you could put text, plus all the normal
formatting codes and such that you wanted.  When you were done you had
source code that you could run through "macro" (the assembler) and get an
executable, or through the "runoff" text processor and get a nice document.

I did this ONCE, for a college project (8085 simulator.)  It was a real
pain in the ass, made the source code hard to read, and you had to be
careful not to get the actual comments that were comments instead of
documentation in the finished document.

After graduating, I discovered that the "industry norm" was to have a
large field of comments at the top of the program.  When you editted
the source, you'd add a date line and what you did:

;10-June-85 0123PST; TCPTCP.MAC.1214, Edit by .....BillWKILLspamspam.....SU-Score.arpa
; Increase TCP spead by reducing pager thrashing.  Don't reset the pager
; tables when copying from system to user space if the user is the system,
; too.  Oughta help...

Then you could also tag you actual added code, like:

TCPCPY: txne    flags, TCP%SY   ;[10-June-85] check for system read
       %if                     ;[10-June-85]
         call  pagrst          ;[10-June-85] user read - reset pages
       %endif                  ;[10-June-85]

There was also a version number so you could tag larger edits by changing
the version number instead.

This was pretty simple, and was remarkably helpful...

Nowdays, I'd use RCS or other source control system instead, I think.

BillW

2000\06\02@040036 by D Lloyd

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face
part 0 2115 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream;Hi,

Yes, this .pcx file is ABB's logo, "kindly" attached by Lotus Notes - I'd prefer
it if I could turn it off but that isnt to be.
Apologies about the bandwidth.
I've managed to sort it now (documentation) so thank you for your replies.

Regards,

Dan




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 |"M. Adam Davis" <EraseMEadavisspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTUBASICS.COM>                                    |
 |01/06/2000 21:41                                                        |
 >------------------------------------------------------------------------|



Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>

To:   @spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Dan Lloyd/GBPTD/ABB)
Subject:  Re: [OT]: - Firmware Maintenance Templates/Procedures

Security Level:?         Internal



Well, there's a certian .pcx file that has been found on a few other messages,
probably lotus software attaching some sort of card or something...  see D Lloyd
<KILLspamdan.lloydKILLspamspamGB.ABB.COM> 's posts.  So I didn't even think about the idea that the
list might've taken care of it.  I thought my computer messed it up...

But, I'm all for not allowing attachments on the list.  It would be nice,
however, to receive a message if my posting is altered in any way (ie, adding a
topic, deleting the attachment, etc)...  But I suppose there are some people who
can't turn off certian attachments (due to work policies, perhaps?) such as
vcard, which would be a pain for them to post and get a message back about their
deleted attachment every time...

-Adam

Mark Willis wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\06\02@040043 by D Lloyd

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part 0 6117 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream;Hi,

This is a *nice* idea - thanks. Fits in nicely with our philosophy of
"intranet-ising" everything.
I'll have a bash at this with some of our *.c files (asm? what's that? <grin>);
have to see if I can frig the compiler to ignore the html.

Dan



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 |"M. Adam Davis" <RemoveMEadavisTakeThisOuTspamUBASICS.COM>                                    |
 |01/06/2000 21:03                                                        |
 >------------------------------------------------------------------------|



Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>

To:   TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Dan Lloyd/GBPTD/ABB)
Subject:  Re: [OT]: - Firmware Maintenance Templates/Procedures

Security Level:?         Internal



Hmm...  It appears as though my attachment didn't go through...

Go to http://www.ubasics.com/adam/pic/doc to see the files
asmfile.htm    The html formatted assembly file
TLMCHIP.INI    The modified language suite file for mchip
              (use it to replace tlmchip.ini)
MPASMhtm.MTC   The modified MPASM.MTC file
              (use it in addition with mpasm.mtc)

After copying the language files to your mplab directory, choose 'install
language tools' from the project menu.  Under the microchip lanuage tools, there
will ba an additional language, "MPASM(*.htm)".  Select that, and put in the
path to your mpasmwin.exe file.

-Adam

"M. Adam Davis" wrote:
>
> Along those lines, here is an assembly file marked up with enough HTML to
> display properly in a browser...  (Small attachment!  Don't shoot me!)
>
> It is an htm file so that I can simply click on it and see the document.
MPLAB
{Quote hidden}

all
> > > *religiously* follow our procedures <cough, cough>, does anyone know of
any good
> > > templates regarding maintenance as opposed to development?
> > >
> > > Such templates would ideally relate to change control procedures, bug
> > > maintenance etc. I went through the same exercise of obtaining such
information
> > > for development but procedures used by the likes of NASA are a bit
overkill for
> > > general embedded systems, so cut down information would be more
beneficial.
{Quote hidden}

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2000\06\02@040245 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
>I'll assume, if you've seen what NASA has to offer.  (IMO some co's go way
>overboard on paranoia

Hmm, would you fly in a spacecraft that had not been through this loop?

2000\06\02@044900 by D Lloyd

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part 0 1054 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream;






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To:   PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Dan Lloyd/GBPTD/ABB)
Subject:  Re: [OT]: - Firmware Maintenance Templates/Procedures

Security Level:?         Internal



>I'll assume, if you've seen what NASA has to offer.  (IMO some co's go way
>overboard on paranoia

Hmm, would you fly in a spacecraft that had not been through this loop?

That's the problem these days - people worry too much about being "safe" - I bet
Yuri Gagarin didn't worry about whether the code had been audited when he was
twiddling his thermionic valves ; )

Dan

PS: That reminds me - I'll have to see if there is any source code at work
     behind my airbag mechanism, and ask for the relevant documentation from
     the manufacturer (cough, cough)


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2000\06\02@053930 by Mark Willis

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Alan B Pearce wrote:
> >I'll assume, if you've seen what NASA has to offer.  (IMO some co's go way
> >overboard on paranoia
>
> Hmm, would you fly in a spacecraft that had not been through this loop?

You misread my post.  I was saying that it's better to change a known,
dangerous bug, than to get pointy-headed and be afraid that "doing so
might induce a new bug."

Yes, it might - That's WHY YOU TEST THE SOFTWARE THOROUGHLY - which
you're doing anyways <G>  I've done that sort of testing, and:
<A> I'm quite doubtful that a new bug is likely to be installed as a
result, those programmers are pretty good and pretty careful, I've not
seen that HAPPEN - and
<B> the chances of such a bug getting past a dozen white box software
testers, are not high.  If it did, the programmer knows he'd HEAR about
it, so he tries not to mess up.  Programmers HATE bug reports <G>

I'd fly far happier in a spacecraft where known dangerous bugs were
FIXED instead of one where known dangerous bugs were NOT fixed, out of
concern that fixing them might cause other bugs to surface, yep;  where
do I sign up to go?  I'm quite available;  Heck, put me up there with a
couple laptops, I'll stay for a while <G>

Consider the Challenger disaster - Would you say that it was safer to
not replace the seals on the SRB's, because the new seals might fail in
some new, different way?  Or would you change the new seal and test the
heck out of it and consider things improved, because you'd taken sane
action to decrease a definite danger, then validated the safety
improvement you'd made?

(Not saying you said that, Alan - just giving an obviously stupid
decision some people made.)  I don't buy the "it might make things
worse" argument, is what I'm saying.  Zero tolerance for dangerous bugs,
is a good thing when it can be attained.  Obviously, too, space travel's
not the most safe thing to do - and, driving to work's more dangerous
than space travel, we all know if we think about the statistics.

Engineers aren't perfect - That's why there are all those eyes working
to make sure the code's safe...  We try, though.

 Mark

2000\06\02@082919 by M. Adam Davis

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Just do

/* <HTML><BODY><TITLE>This Darn C Program</TITLE><pre>
  Program
  Creator
  Date
  ...  (no HTML code needed to format this area, it appears as
        it is written in the browser, and is less cluttered for
        the programmer to deal with)
  ...
  </pre><!-
*/

void main(void)
{
  ...
  w=0xff;      // -><p>This line needs a special comment in the docs</p><!-
}

/*
  <p>This program does nothing, and is useless</p>
  <p>Blah, blah blah</>
  ...
  </BODY></HTML>
*/

Since there is no 'end' directive to tell the compiler to stop looking, you have
to put all the HTML in comments.

Unfortunately, my mailer may get rid of the HTML tags before it is sent.  If you
don't see anything usefull above, go to http://www.ubasics.com/adam/pic/doc/ and
look for cfile.htm.  You'll need to add a new C language, as well.

-Adam

D Lloyd wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\06\02@132550 by Mike Werner

picon face
Mark Willis wrote:
> Yes, that's right.  Well, they're enabled, then;  I know we were
> discussing the capability (Maybe Mike was going to gripe at L-Soft about
> getting that feature ADDED?)  It's been an interesting day <G>

It's mentioned in the docs as a feature in a version newer than what our
server is running.  After the next system upgrade at MIT, I guess ...

{Quote hidden}

I've been wondering for some time now ... what *is* that .pcx thing anyway?
I tried taking a look at it to see if I could at least figure out what *type*
of file it was - i.e. a graphic, some sort of v-card, etc. - but no luck.

> > But, I'm all for not allowing attachments on the list.  It would be nice,
> > however, to receive a message if my posting is altered in any way (ie, adding a
> > topic, deleting the attachment, etc)...  But I suppose there are some people who
> > can't turn off certian attachments (due to work policies, perhaps?) such as
> > vcard, which would be a pain for them to post and get a message back about their
> > deleted attachment every time...

It's been discussed.  Last I remember there wasn't quite a decision made.
There is something to be said about being able to attach code snips and
such to a message, or a graphic showing a circuit under question.  However
it can also be argued that with the proliferation of free web space providers
that it is better to simply put the item onto a web page and post the URL.

As for how the server would go about denying attachments, it can do it in
a few different ways (once we get the version with that capability, that
is).  It can either:
1) Bounce the message back to the sender outright
2) Strip the attachments and send the message on through, with no warning to
  the sender.
If we were to implement this, I would guess (and this is *just* a guess) that
it would be the second option that would get implemented.

> > Mark Willis wrote:
> > >
> > > I thought Mike W. set the list to kill attachments?  Am I recalling
> > > inaccurately?  (wouldn't be the first time, o'course.)

Currently, the only attachment type that we *can* kill is HTML attachments.
And *that* is why Adam's HTMLized asm attachment didn't come through.  The
server saw an attachment with MIME type text/html and stripped it off.
--
Mike Werner  KA8YSD           |  "Where do you want to go today?"
                             |  "As far from Redmond as possible!"
'91 GS500E                    |
Morgantown WV                 |  Only dead fish go with the flow.

2000\06\02@134430 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Thought of another thing for a list autoresponder to handle, BTW:  Have
it handle "Your clock's WAY off!" posts to those people on Betelguesian
time <G>)

Mike Werner wrote:
> Mark Willis wrote:
> > Yes, that's right.  Well, they're enabled, then;  I know we were
> > discussing the capability (Maybe Mike was going to gripe at L-Soft about
> > getting that feature ADDED?)  It's been an interesting day <G>
>
> It's mentioned in the docs as a feature in a version newer than what our
> server is running.  After the next system upgrade at MIT, I guess ...

When they do it, they won't tell us, either (never have in the past.)
We'll cope.

{Quote hidden}

It's not getting here as a valid PCX file either.  Supposed to be a
company logo - Why someone'd set it up to devour bandwidth, must be yet
another pointy-haired choice <G>

{Quote hidden}

I've been thinking on all this - I think if someone had a list processor
daemon machine that'd do what we want, we could probably handle things
like making people custom digests (that're actually RFC compliant), that
have filtering handled;  The same autoresponder machine could add that,
though anti-SPAM people at that ISP would have to be told about it.
It's a thought.

> > > Mark Willis wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I thought Mike W. set the list to kill attachments?  Am I recalling
> > > > inaccurately?  (wouldn't be the first time, o'course.)
>
> Currently, the only attachment type that we *can* kill is HTML attachments.
> And *that* is why Adam's HTMLized asm attachment didn't come through.  The
> server saw an attachment with MIME type text/html and stripped it off.

Me confoozled, happens.

> --
> Mike Werner  KA8YSD           |  "Where do you want to go today?"
>                               |  "As far from Redmond as possible!"
> '91 GS500E                    |
> Morgantown WV                 |  Only dead fish go with the flow.

 Mark

2000\06\02@135839 by Andrew Kunz

flavicon
face
>I've been thinking on all this - I think if someone had a list processor
>daemon machine that'd do what we want, we could probably handle things

Mark,

I've told you about http://www.vnode.com before.  They have two of my websites and each
has a mailing list attached to their majordomo.

They aren't far from you physically, either.

Hey, did you hear M$ bought British Columbia for $25million?  (OK, so I"m
stretching a _little_ but it's in the news on Yahoo).

Andy

2000\06\02@140529 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
Mike Werner wrote:
> It's mentioned in the docs as a feature in a version newer than what our
> server is running.  After the next system upgrade at MIT, I guess ...

Hmph.  I just want them to update their DNS records!  I changed hosting
providers wednesday morning, and this is the only server that thinks ubasics.com
is still at my old IP.  Tomorrow I'm going to have to change my piclist email
address to adavis@208.56.224.67 if MIT doesn't get their rear in gear...

> I've been wondering for some time now ... what *is* that .pcx thing anyway?
> I tried taking a look at it to see if I could at least figure out what *type*
> of file it was - i.e. a graphic, some sort of v-card, etc. - but no luck.

Apparently it's a company logo.  PCX is and older, less used graphic format.

> It's been discussed.  Last I remember there wasn't quite a decision made.
> There is something to be said about being able to attach code snips and
> such to a message, or a graphic showing a circuit under question.  However
> it can also be argued that with the proliferation of free web space providers
> that it is better to simply put the item onto a web page and post the URL.

Well, it can and has been argued either way.  It doesn't bother me too much to
have the occasionaly small attachment, but I know that others in some countries
pay per minute charges for internet access and/or have a really slow connection
- even the extra 5k of a small attachment is noticable.

{Quote hidden}

So that would explain it!  I was curious about that.

-Adam

2000\06\02@140852 by M. Adam Davis

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face
heh, heh, heh.  I'd like to see the BC's try to change their official language
to VB now, rather than French from english/french.

I doubt Msft would move to BC.

-Adam

Andrew Kunz wrote:
> Hey, did you hear M$ bought British Columbia for $25million?  (OK, so I"m
> stretching a _little_ but it's in the news on Yahoo).
>
> Andy

2000\06\03@041312 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Andrew Kunz wrote:
> >I've been thinking on all this - I think if someone had a list processor
> >daemon machine that'd do what we want, we could probably handle things
>
> Mark,
>
> I've told you about http://www.vnode.com before.  They have two of my websites and each
> has a mailing list attached to their majordomo.

Not remembering about it - you have me confused with someone else?  <G>
Maybe it's just been a while.  I'm thinking using my existing ISP,
though, if I'm going to do this on a machine here.

> They aren't far from you physically, either.

Courtenay BC is a little north of Enumscratch <G>  Closer to here than
to Puyallup, o'course.

> Hey, did you hear M$ bought British Columbia for $25million?  (OK, so I"m
> stretching a _little_ but it's in the news on Yahoo).

Right-O.  Doubt it'll happen.

> Andy

2000\06\05@031312 by D Lloyd

flavicon
face
part 0 8952 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream;Hi

I did something along the lines of this but certain variable names, followed by
'>' (such as in tests), were interpreted as html control codes.
I didn't really want to be putting control codes all over the place but I'll
endeavour to get this working!

Regards,
Dan


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|------------->
 >------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 |"M. Adam Davis" <RemoveMEadavisKILLspamspamUBASICS.COM>                                    |
 |02/06/2000 13:45                                                        |
 >------------------------------------------------------------------------|



Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTSTOPspamspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>

To:   spamBeGonePICLISTSTOPspamspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Dan Lloyd/GBPTD/ABB)
Subject:  Re: [OT]: - Firmware Maintenance Templates/Procedures

Security Level:?         Internal



Just do

/* <HTML><BODY><TITLE>This Darn C Program</TITLE><pre>
  Program
  Creator
  Date
  ...  (no HTML code needed to format this area, it appears as
        it is written in the browser, and is less cluttered for
        the programmer to deal with)
  ...
  </pre><!-
*/

void main(void)
{
  ...
  w=0xff;      // -><p>This line needs a special comment in the docs</p><!-
}

/*
  <p>This program does nothing, and is useless</p>
  <p>Blah, blah blah</>
  ...
  </BODY></HTML>
*/

Since there is no 'end' directive to tell the compiler to stop looking, you have
to put all the HTML in comments.

Unfortunately, my mailer may get rid of the HTML tags before it is sent.  If you
don't see anything usefull above, go to http://www.ubasics.com/adam/pic/doc/ and
look for cfile.htm.  You'll need to add a new C language, as well.

-Adam

D Lloyd wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This is a *nice* idea - thanks. Fits in nicely with our philosophy of
> "intranet-ising" everything.
> I'll have a bash at this with some of our *.c files (asm? what's that?
<grin>);
{Quote hidden}

there
{Quote hidden}

file
> > and modified microchip's language tool suite file to accept htm files.
> > (mpasm.mtc --> mpasmhtm.mtc with some modification and modified
TLMCHIP.INI).
{Quote hidden}

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                    Name: pic20839.pcx
>    pic20839.pcx    Type: PCX Image
(application/x-unknown-content-type-pcxfile)
>                Encoding: base64






Content-type: application/octet-stream;
       name="pic12499.pcx"
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic12499.pcx"

Attachment converted: creation:pic12499.pcx (????/----) (0001613B)

2000\06\05@094146 by Andrew Kunz

flavicon
face
>Not remembering about it - you have me confused with someone else?  <G>
>Maybe it's just been a while.  I'm thinking using my existing ISP,
>though, if I'm going to do this on a machine here.

Try as I might, Mark, it's pretty hard to confuse you <G>

>Courtenay BC is a little north of Enumscratch <G>  Closer to here than
>to Puyallup, o'course.

Distance is relative.  I talk to them at the speed of light (almost).  I like
the US/CDN exchange rate.  That, coupled with some the bulk discounts for
long-term stuff, works out to about 1/2 price.

Andy

2000\06\05@122900 by Andrew Kunz

flavicon
face
>Not remembering about it - you have me confused with someone else?  <G>
>Maybe it's just been a while.  I'm thinking using my existing ISP,
>though, if I'm going to do this on a machine here.

Try as I might, Mark, it's pretty hard to confuse you <G>

>Courtenay BC is a little north of Enumscratch <G>  Closer to here than
>to Puyallup, o'course.

Distance is relative.  I talk to them at the speed of light (almost).  I like
the US/CDN exchange rate.  That, coupled with some the bulk discounts for
long-term stuff, works out to about 1/2 price.

Andy

2000\06\05@142612 by D Lloyd

flavicon
face
part 0 8954 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream;Hi

I did something along the lines of this but certain variable names, followed by
'>' (such as in tests), were interpreted as html control codes.
I didn't really want to be putting control codes all over the place but I'll
endeavour to get this working!

Regards,
Dan


|------------->
|(Embedded    |
|image moved  |
|to file:     |
|pic12499.pcx)|
|             |
|------------->
 >------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 |"M. Adam Davis" <spamBeGoneadavisspamKILLspamUBASICS.COM>                                    |
 |02/06/2000 13:45                                                        |
 >------------------------------------------------------------------------|



Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <.....PICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>

To:   TakeThisOuTPICLIST.....spamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Dan Lloyd/GBPTD/ABB)
Subject:  Re: [OT]: - Firmware Maintenance Templates/Procedures

Security Level:?         Internal



Just do

/* <HTML><BODY><TITLE>This Darn C Program</TITLE><pre>
  Program
  Creator
  Date
  ...  (no HTML code needed to format this area, it appears as
        it is written in the browser, and is less cluttered for
        the programmer to deal with)
  ...
  </pre><!-
*/

void main(void)
{
  ...
  w=0xff;      // -><p>This line needs a special comment in the docs</p><!-
}

/*
  <p>This program does nothing, and is useless</p>
  <p>Blah, blah blah</>
  ...
  </BODY></HTML>
*/

Since there is no 'end' directive to tell the compiler to stop looking, you have
to put all the HTML in comments.

Unfortunately, my mailer may get rid of the HTML tags before it is sent.  If you
don't see anything usefull above, go to http://www.ubasics.com/adam/pic/doc/ and
look for cfile.htm.  You'll need to add a new C language, as well.

-Adam

D Lloyd wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This is a *nice* idea - thanks. Fits in nicely with our philosophy of
> "intranet-ising" everything.
> I'll have a bash at this with some of our *.c files (asm? what's that?
<grin>);
{Quote hidden}

there
{Quote hidden}

file
> > and modified microchip's language tool suite file to accept htm files.
> > (mpasm.mtc --> mpasmhtm.mtc with some modification and modified
TLMCHIP.INI).
{Quote hidden}

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                    Name: pic20839.pcx
>    pic20839.pcx    Type: PCX Image
(application/x-unknown-content-type-pcxfile)
>                Encoding: base64






Content-type: application/octet-stream;
       name="pic12499.pcx"
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic12499.pcx"

Attachment converted: creation:pic12499.pcx 1 (????/----) (00016184)

2000\06\05@145140 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
hmm...  As long as you don't have a '->' in the code, it shouldn't end the html
comment tag '<!- ..... ->'

-Adam

D Lloyd wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\06\06@033307 by D Lloyd

flavicon
face
part 0 12319 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream;Hi,

It would seem not - not for Internet Explorer, anyway. This line of code:

'if((PhaseIdentifier >= PHASE_A_ID) && (PhaseIdentifier <= PHASE_C_ID))'

causes the problem. It produces

<Snip from Explorer>

blah blah
.
********************************************************************************
* Copyright 1999, ABB Metering Systems Limited, Stone, Staffordshire, England  *
*******************************************************************************/
/*
= PHASE_A_ID)<+the remainder of code in the module (cannot show the code, for
obvious reasons)>

<Snip>

There is a "/*</pre><!-- CODE STARTS HERE*/" is placed following the copyright
message.
I would that thought that Explorer was looking for the  "->" token, too, but it
seems it is more lax than that. I haven't tried it in any other browsers as it
is corporate policy to use IE.
I tried the </BODY> marker in several places, hoping that it would force IE to
ignore subsequent information, but that doesnt appear to work.

I'll have to have another bash at it when I get time as it is a really good idea
to do things this way. If you have any suggestions, they would be greatly
appreciated.

Regards,

Dan




|------------->
|(Embedded    |
|image moved  |
|to file:     |
|pic03657.pcx)|
|             |
|------------->
 >------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 |"M. Adam Davis" <@spam@adavisspam_OUTspam.....UBASICS.COM>                                    |
 |05/06/2000 20:09                                                        |
 >------------------------------------------------------------------------|



Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <spamBeGonePICLISTEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>

To:   PICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Dan Lloyd/GBPTD/ABB)
Subject:  Re: [OT]: - Firmware Maintenance Templates/Procedures

Security Level:?         Internal



hmm...  As long as you don't have a '->' in the code, it shouldn't end the html
comment tag '<!- ..... ->'

-Adam

D Lloyd wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I did something along the lines of this but certain variable names, followed
by
{Quote hidden}

have
> to put all the HTML in comments.
>
> Unfortunately, my mailer may get rid of the HTML tags before it is sent.  If
you
> don't see anything usefull above, go to http://www.ubasics.com/adam/pic/doc/
and
{Quote hidden}

<PICLISTEraseMEspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
{Quote hidden}

htm
{Quote hidden}

we
> > all
> > > > > *religiously* follow our procedures <cough, cough>, does anyone know
of
{Quote hidden}

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >                    Name: pic20839.pcx
> >    pic20839.pcx    Type: PCX Image
> (application/x-unknown-content-type-pcxfile)
> >                Encoding: base64
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                    Name: pic12499.pcx
>    pic12499.pcx    Type: application/x-unknown-content-type-pcxfile
>                Encoding: base64






Content-type: application/octet-stream;
       name="pic03657.pcx"
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic03657.pcx"

Attachment converted: creation:pic03657.pcx (????/----) (000161DC)

2000\06\06@090732 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
I've also tried moving text in and out of the body and html tags, and both IE
and Netscape (4.72) print the entire file except for <!- ... -> tags.  I did not
know IE would let the '>' end a comment tag though...

Just tested it.  Netscape does the exact same thing.  I'm in the process of
looking it up in the HTML 4.01 spec (http://www.w3c.org/).  I'll tell you what I
come up with.  It may end up that for C programs you woul dhave to use a program
to filter it for you (ie, drop the file onto this program, and it creates a
temporary file and opens the browser for it...)

-Adam

D Lloyd wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\06\06@093231 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
Ok, the fault is mine.  I suspected this was the case in the beginning, but
since it worked, I didn't question it.

Comments are '<!-- ... -->' and you can put ANYTHING in between the comments as
long as you end with '-->' (two hyphens).  The issue is this:  The comment tag
is defined as having two hyphens, without them it is no longer a comment tag.
The fact the Netscape and IE end at any '>' after a comment means they did not
find a 'real' end comment, and so they are doing their best to make up for the
web designer's mistake (mine), and they end at any end tag character '>'.

So, the file

/*<HTML><BODY><PRE>
THIS IS A MESSAGE in the header
</PRE><!-- */

if((PhaseIdentifier >= PHASE_A_ID) && (PhaseIdentifier <= PHASE_C_ID))

/*  hello -->
<p>This program is a test of placing HTML comments in ...</p>
</body></HTML>

Produces the output:

THIS IS A MESSAGE in the header

This program is a test of placing HTML comments in ...

Sorry I made that mistake, I hope I haven't caused you to lose too much time
over it.  Just make sure you start with two hyphens, end with two hyphens, and
have no whitespace in the start and end tag strings.  "<!-- ... -->"

-Adam

D Lloyd wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\06\06@104617 by jamesnewton

face picon face
You might be interested in the Code-2-Htm project at
http://www.fastsoftware.com/Projects.htm
It is to be an extension of the MASM-2-HTML program which "colorizes" code
listings with HTML tags to produce things like
http://www.fastsoftware.com/Source/A2H.htm
but Code-2-Htm will not be language specific and could be setup to convert
MPLab listings.
Chris Hobbs --
RemoveMEchobbsRemoveMEspamEraseMEfastsoftware.com
would probably enjoy hearing from anyone interested.

---
James Newton KILLspamjamesnewtonspamspamBeGonegeocities.com 1-619-652-0593


{Original Message removed}

2000\06\06@115631 by D Lloyd

flavicon
face
part 0 16253 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream;Hi,

This works fine - thank you for your effort in sorting that out. I didnt waste
much time because I have been banging my head against a wall with a comms
problem all day....would you like to sort that out, too ? ; ) Just kidding.

I was hoping to get around to fixing it tomorrow but this is good.

Thank you again for your help and effort.

Regards,

Dan




|------------->
|(Embedded    |
|image moved  |
|to file:     |
|pic22572.pcx)|
|             |
|------------->
 >------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 |"M. Adam Davis" <adavisspamspamUBASICS.COM>                                    |
 |06/06/2000 14:48                                                        |
 >------------------------------------------------------------------------|



Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTspamBeGonespamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>

To:   KILLspamPICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Dan Lloyd/GBPTD/ABB)
Subject:  Re: [OT]: - Firmware Maintenance Templates/Procedures

Security Level:?         Internal



Ok, the fault is mine.  I suspected this was the case in the beginning, but
since it worked, I didn't question it.

Comments are '<!-- ... -->' and you can put ANYTHING in between the comments as
long as you end with '-->' (two hyphens).  The issue is this:  The comment tag
is defined as having two hyphens, without them it is no longer a comment tag.
The fact the Netscape and IE end at any '>' after a comment means they did not
find a 'real' end comment, and so they are doing their best to make up for the
web designer's mistake (mine), and they end at any end tag character '>'.

So, the file

/*<HTML><BODY><PRE>
THIS IS A MESSAGE in the header
</PRE><!-- */

if((PhaseIdentifier >= PHASE_A_ID) && (PhaseIdentifier <= PHASE_C_ID))

/*  hello -->
<p>This program is a test of placing HTML comments in ...</p>
</body></HTML>

Produces the output:

THIS IS A MESSAGE in the header

This program is a test of placing HTML comments in ...

Sorry I made that mistake, I hope I haven't caused you to lose too much time
over it.  Just make sure you start with two hyphens, end with two hyphens, and
have no whitespace in the start and end tag strings.  "<!-- ... -->"

-Adam

D Lloyd wrote:
{Quote hidden}

********************************************************************************
> * Copyright 1999, ABB Metering Systems Limited, Stone, Staffordshire, England
*
>
*******************************************************************************/
> /*
> = PHASE_A_ID)<+the remainder of code in the module (cannot show the code, for
> obvious reasons)>
>
> <Snip>
>
> There is a "/*</pre><!-- CODE STARTS HERE*/" is placed following the copyright
> message.
> I would that thought that Explorer was looking for the  "->" token, too, but
it
> seems it is more lax than that. I haven't tried it in any other browsers as it
> is corporate policy to use IE.
> I tried the </BODY> marker in several places, hoping that it would force IE to
> ignore subsequent information, but that doesnt appear to work.
>
> I'll have to have another bash at it when I get time as it is a really good
idea
{Quote hidden}

html
{Quote hidden}

<RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
{Quote hidden}

the
> > > path to your mpasmwin.exe file.
> > >
> > > -Adam
> > >
> > > "M. Adam Davis" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Along those lines, here is an assembly file marked up with enough HTML
to
{Quote hidden}

safety
> > > > > systems - the documentation was installed inside the source (.asm)
> > > > > files.
> > > > >
> > > > > IMO this is a good idea - This way the programmers could actually get
at
> > > > > & see the docs, and were in fact in charge of the documentation's
upkeep
> > > > > and maintenance (gasp!) - SO often, it's marketing or someone who
knows
> > > > > nothing about the code, who writes the manual etc., months later, with
> > > > > no clue - And it ends up resembling the code's behavior SO little,
that
> > > > > it's rather pathetic.
> > > > >
> > > > > They had a tool that'd extract the docs into a file that the
> > > > > documentation people were allowed to get at, then had a nice tool that
> > > > > re-formatted that text file into a properly formatted document.
> > > > > Nowadays, HTML comes to mind <G>  Probably could treat it as a
separate
> > > > > "source code" file, and not include it directly into the code.  And
the
> > > > > extract document "compiled" (checked syntax) as a matter of course so
> > > > > you couldn't "oops" without noticing, well, not too badly anyways.
> > > > >
> > > > > And of course you could verify that you didn't mess up the code when
the
> > > > > docs were changed (compare the previous .obj files with current
freshly
> > > > > compiled version, should be identical) - twas on a Z80/80186 dual
> > > > > processor machine.
> > > > >
> > > > > You already know about concepts like bug report filing, bug
> > > > > verification, change control boards, regression testing, and so on,
I'll
> > > > > assume, if you've seen what NASA has to offer.  (IMO some co's go way
> > > > > overboard on paranoia on "If we fix a bug it'll just make 15 new
bugs.",
> > > > > I always feel my competence is being insulted, frankly.  Now, "If we
let
> > > > > management make decisions, it'll just encourage them", that definitely
> > > > > has truth to it, for some values of management <G>)  Treat it like any
> > > > > other system, look for gaping holes, and design something that's able
to
{Quote hidden}

bug
{Quote hidden}

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >                    Name: pic20839.pcx
> > >    pic20839.pcx    Type: PCX Image
> > (application/x-unknown-content-type-pcxfile)
> > >                Encoding: base64
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >                    Name: pic12499.pcx
> >    pic12499.pcx    Type: application/x-unknown-content-type-pcxfile
> >                Encoding: base64
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                    Name: pic03657.pcx
>    pic03657.pcx    Type: application/x-unknown-content-type-pcxfile
>                Encoding: base64






Content-type: application/octet-stream;
       name="pic22572.pcx"
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic22572.pcx"

Attachment converted: creation:pic22572.pcx (????/----) (00016206)

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