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'[OT]: AVR availability'
2000\10\03@103735 by Mark Walsh

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What is your source for 2313's?  Are these SOIC packages?  30 days before we
started production on a new product, we had to do a crash redesign because
we were quoted 9 month lead times on this part.  We are now using a readily
available PIC.  I've started thinking that Atmel is a clone of Motorola when
it comes to parts availability, but maybe the problem is with my distributor
(All American).

Mark Walsh

Jinx wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2000\10\03@175001 by Jinx

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REC Electronics in Auckland (http://www.rec.com.au) get me SMT parts
from Australia. DIP is very hard to get, everything is committed and
they can't ship it in from Atmel quick enough. I'd have preferred DIP
myself but as you say, very long lead times. What I'll probably do
for my mucking about is put the SMT parts on socket-mounted PCBs.
PITA but a micro's a micro

> What is your source for 2313's?  Are these SOIC packages?

> I've started thinking that Atmel is a clone of Motorola when it
> comes to parts availability, but maybe the problem is with my
> distributor (All American).

> Mark Walsh

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2000\10\03@175622 by Jinx

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> REC Electronics in Auckland (http://www.rec.com.au)

BTW, REC have a "make an offer" page of surplus inventory. Could
be a bargain or two there for you manufacturers

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2000\10\03@181528 by Dan Michaels

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Mark Walsh wrote:
>REC Electronics in Auckland (http://www.rec.com.au) get me SMT parts
>from Australia. DIP is very hard to get, everything is committed and
>they can't ship it in from Atmel quick enough. I'd have preferred DIP
>myself but as you say, very long lead times. What I'll probably do
>for my mucking about is put the SMT parts on socket-mounted PCBs.
>PITA but a micro's a micro
>
>> What is your source for 2313's?  Are these SOIC packages?
>
>> I've started thinking that Atmel is a clone of Motorola when it
>> comes to parts availability, but maybe the problem is with my
>> distributor (All American).
>


JFTHOI, I went to the Digikey site and checked on AVR
availability of 2313 and others. No stock, no backorder date.
The database/catalog, however, are all set to go o nthe day
the stork finally arrives.

After listening to all the AVR buzz/no_availability_misery on
piclist for a year, jumping into AVR sounds like pure
______________ <---[fill in your own word].

As I recall, Mot had this kind of problem in the early 90s when
Ford or somebody started putting the 6805s in autos by the
millions. Anyone know where millions of AVRs might be going to?
Telecomm, maybe?

- danM

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2000\10\03@182352 by Jinx

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> As I recall, Mot had this kind of problem in the early 90s when
> Ford or somebody started putting the 6805s in autos by the
> millions. Anyone know where millions of AVRs might be going to?
> Telecomm, maybe?
>
> - danM

More than once I've been told that much production is commited
to cell-phone and micro-PC manufacturer. Not just micros, but
regulators and memory. When you see the features that cell-phones
are getting it's no wonder they need stuffing with all "our" chips

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2000\10\03@192046 by Bob Ammerman

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>
> More than once I've been told that much production is commited
> to cell-phone and micro-PC manufacturer. Not just micros, but
> regulators and memory. When you see the features that cell-phones
> are getting it's no wonder they need stuffing with all "our" chips
>

Be thankful for all these applications for two reasons:

More embedded chips == more embedded developers (or more demand for the
existing ones).

More embedded chips == economies of scale and 'consumer' level price
competition.

We win both ways!

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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2000\10\03@201539 by Mark Walsh

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> Be thankful for all these applications for two reasons:
>
> More embedded chips == more embedded developers (or more demand for the
> existing ones).
>
> More embedded chips == economies of scale and 'consumer' level price
> competition.
>
> We win both ways!
>
> Bob Ammerman
> RAm Systems
> (contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
> software)
>

This is almost true.  But when demand outstrips the supply there is no room
left for price competition on the non-existent parts I'm trying to buy.
$0.50 or $50.00 each, I pay them or they pay me.  It makes no difference
when there aren't any parts.  Of course you are right over an extended
period, but I have to meet a payroll every Friday.

Mark Walsh

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2000\10\03@224635 by Jinx

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> Be thankful for all these applications for two reasons:
>
> More embedded chips == more embedded developers (or more
> demand for the existing ones).
>
> More embedded chips == economies of scale and 'consumer' level price
> competition.
>
> We win both ways!

No complaints about global businesses, just annoying when all the
parts get hogged. Regarding the cost of cell-phones, as an example
of economy of scale, aren't they almost giveaways from the service
provider ? I haven't got and don't want one, but in every deal I can
remember seeing, cost of the phone was immaterial / not mentioned.
You see them advertised for next to nothing in the trades, bought a
couple of $10 ones last year just for bits

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2000\10\04@002423 by Andy Howard

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Michaels" <RemoveMEoricomTakeThisOuTspamUSWEST.NET>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: [OT]: AVR availability


{Quote hidden}

They've just bought a large modern fab in the UK which was mothballed a few
months back when Siemens pulled out.


> As I recall, Mot had this kind of problem in the early 90s when
> Ford or somebody started putting the 6805s in autos by the
> millions. Anyone know where millions of AVRs might be going to?
> Telecomm, maybe?

A friendly distributor tells me they're big in cellular phone markets which,
given the astonishing spread of phones over the last few years and in Europe
more than most places, goes some way toward explaining why they're rarer
than smartly-dressed Unix gurus. .











.

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2000\10\04@042454 by Alan B. Pearce

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>No complaints about global businesses, just annoying when all the
>parts get hogged. Regarding the cost of cell-phones, as an example
>of economy of scale, aren't they almost giveaways from the service
>provider ? I haven't got and don't want one, but in every deal I can
>remember seeing, cost of the phone was immaterial / not mentioned.
>You see them advertised for next to nothing in the trades, bought a
>couple of $10 ones last year just for bits

In the UK they are being "given away" for GBP20-30 when you connect to a network. You buy the phone at your local supermarket with a prepaid card and off you go. The problem for the phone companies is the phone costs 5-10 times what they sell it for, and they need to keep you connected and using the phone for about 5 years to recover the capital cost of the phone. Smart critters from other countries realize these cheap phones are cheaper than they can get them for, and purchase them to take away to some other country where they then sell the phone at a profit.

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2000\10\04@044818 by Jilles Oldenbeuving

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Van: Alan B. Pearce <TakeThisOuTA.B.PearceEraseMEspamspam_OUTRL.AC.UK>
Aan: RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU <PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Datum: woensdag 4 oktober 2000 10:25
Onderwerp: Re: [OT]: AVR availability


>>No complaints about global businesses, just annoying when all the
>>parts get hogged. Regarding the cost of cell-phones, as an example
>>of economy of scale, aren't they almost giveaways from the service
>>provider ? I haven't got and don't want one, but in every deal I can
>>remember seeing, cost of the phone was immaterial / not mentioned.
>>You see them advertised for next to nothing in the trades, bought a
>>couple of $10 ones last year just for bits
>
>In the UK they are being "given away" for GBP20-30 when you connect to a
network. You buy the phone at your local supermarket with a prepaid card and
off you > go. The problem for the phone companies is the phone costs 5-10
times what they sell it for, and they need to keep you connected and using
the phone for > > about 5 years to recover the capital cost of the phone.
Smart critters from other countries realize these cheap phones are cheaper
than they can get them for, and purchase them to take away to some other
country where they then sell the phone at a profit.

I used to work at a telco here in The Netherlands (the biggest one) as a
service/repair dude (hehehe). What you see most of the time with a
broken cellphone is that repairs are in the order of US$ 75 and
customers think you're joking when you tell them. Fact is most of
the customers don't know that the phone they paid $ 25 for is
actually hundreds of dollars more expensive!

Also here in the Netherlands they apply a  ' sim-lock '. You dont
have to be connected to the telco for 5 years. After a year you can
get the telco to remove the sim-lock and you're free to go!

Jilles Oldenbeuving

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2000\10\04@050053 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Also here in the Netherlands they apply a  ' sim-lock '. You dont
>have to be connected to the telco for 5 years. After a year you can
>get the telco to remove the sim-lock and you're free to go!

The story in UK is these are real easy for any hacker to get around.

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2000\10\04@060207 by mike

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On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:15:28 -0400, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

It's not AVRs - Atmel's fabs are busy with flash and eeproms for
markets like mobile phones. A rather short-sighted move as no-one with
any sense will be designing -in AVRs at the moment, so when the flash
bubble bursts demand for AVRs will have evaporated. Expect huge price
drops when  they do become available agin.
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2000\10\04@060217 by mike

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On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:04:10 -0400, you wrote:

>>
>> More than once I've been told that much production is commited
>> to cell-phone and micro-PC manufacturer. Not just micros, but
>> regulators and memory. When you see the features that cell-phones
>> are getting it's no wonder they need stuffing with all "our" chips
>>
>
>Be thankful for all these applications for two reasons:
>
>More embedded chips == more embedded developers (or more demand for the
>existing ones).
>
>More embedded chips == economies of scale and 'consumer' level price
>competition.
>
>We win both ways!
I don't entirely agree - huge markets mean availability problems, and
chip companies not wanting to bother with people only wanting a few
thousand parts. The main reason for Microchip's success against the
likes of Motorola is they've always supported low-volume users well.

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2000\10\04@230455 by Matt Bennett

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Jinx wrote:
>
> > As I recall, Mot had this kind of problem in the early 90s when
> > Ford or somebody started putting the 6805s in autos by the
> > millions. Anyone know where millions of AVRs might be going to?
> > Telecomm, maybe?
> >
> > - danM
>
> More than once I've been told that much production is commited
> to cell-phone and micro-PC manufacturer. Not just micros, but
> regulators and memory. When you see the features that cell-phones
> are getting it's no wonder they need stuffing with all "our" chips
>

A few months ago, I was in the middle of all that, in particular for the
atmel AVR AT90S8515.  We were being quoted 6 month delivery times on
10K+ orders.  You vould get ones and 10s without much problem, though.

The word from our Atmel rep was that Atmel was pushing the vast majority
of their resources to produce flash memories, which had some very
important (huge volume) customers.  Microcontrollers we just not as
important a market to them, so not as much foundry time was devoted to
them, which led to the long wait.  Being one of the "smaller" customers
with 10K - 50K volumes (for our initial builds), we had to wait.

Matt

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