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'[OT]:: Searl Effect'
2011\11\03@100446 by Jim Higgins

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Received from Yigit Turgut at 11/03/11 11:08 UTC:

>I don't believe this can ever be an efficient and practical transportation
>system due to a dozen of reasons one can easily spot.  IMO transportation
>will seriously evolve when LIGO discovers more about gravitational wave's
>nature. When outputs are combined with precisely pioneered know-how of the
>Searl effect.


res ipsa loquitur

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Searl

http://www.searleffect.com/free/overview.html

2011\11\03@112026 by RussellMc

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> res ipsa loquitur *

It would be easy for things to get fairly rough fairly quickly here.

All please to be well behaved and polite, thanks very much.



           R


* ~~= Caveat Emptor in intent but not actual  meaning

2011\11\03@123111 by Adam Field

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>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Searl
>

According to this article, he did in fact discover free energy... by
bypassing his electric meter

2011\11\03@130428 by V G

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On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Adam Field <spam_OUTadamTakeThisOuTspambadtech.org> wrote:

> According to this article, he did in fact discover free energy... by
> bypassing his electric meter.


LOL! That's pretty funny

2011\11\03@142712 by Yigit Turgut

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In the previous post a poster said that that is not the section to
discuss Searl effect or LIGO, but the original post itself was about a
sort of helicopter - which is a device used for transportation. Net
energy consumed is used to earn potential energy to an object ; as a
result  it is a work against gravity.

At this point it is perfectly reasonable to introduce alternative
approaches to the problem. LIGO investigates the nature of gravity and
Searl effect exploits it.  I wasn't trying to talk about LIGO or the
Searl effect itself, it seemed to me that the study in the original
post is a bit exaggerated where it claims that "It uses a completely
different technology compared to standard helicopter technology". They
add ; "which we now consider obsolete".  Helicopter, multicopter or
Xcopter they all base on the same principle, there is nothing new. I
just wanted to point to something which is much more "new" and
"efficient".

Once the nature of gravity is expressed in terms of our current
understandings, we will be able to manipulate and play with it - this
is where LIGO kicks in. At the end of 2015 ALIGO will sit to the
determined orbit and there will be much more data to correlate.

On the other hand, I am personally interested in the Searl effect -
that's true. I have researched and gone after the Searl effect,
studied all public resources and some private ones around the world. I
almost got the chance to meet John personally while I was doing some
stuff in UK but that never happened. Although, I got chance to meet
someone, one of John's fellows living in US (who seemed to know more
about SEG than John himself), who also dedicated his life to SEG. He
had built around 30~ prototypes in 10~ years and there is -serious
evidence- that the effect exists. There are other parties that proved
the SEG operation. We will also be building a modified version in
2012.

SEG is documented in detail and except some key tricks and stuff -
some of the design details are published publicly. I had tried to
simulate "the effect"  but that was hell of a work only with death
ends. Phenomena should be mastered and pioneered  where there is a
huge lack in analytical understanding still.

I will -definitely- avoid discussions regarding the existence and
validity of SEG, attacks related to "conservation of energy" region of
the spectrum will be reflected with a %100 reflecting mirror.

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Jim Higgins <.....HigginsJKILLspamspam@spam@sc.rr.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2011\11\03@142729 by Carey Fisher

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On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:19 AM, RussellMc <apptechnzspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:

> > res ipsa loquitur *
>
> * ~~= Caveat Emptor in intent but not actual  meaning.
>
>
> Literally, "the thing speaks for itself" which is how my wife explains
some of the comments I make at various gatherings..

2011\11\03@144457 by Yigit Turgut

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Also I would like to add the following ;

I have never seen an actual flying disc based on SEG but I witnessed
that it can have -significant- effect on the weight of object.

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Jim Higgins <.....HigginsJKILLspamspam.....sc.rr.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2011\11\03@152243 by Carey Fisher

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On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Yigit Turgut <EraseMEy.turgutspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:

>
> He had built around 30~ prototypes in 10~ years and there is -serious
> evidence- that the effect exists.


"serious evidence" is not science unless it's published for peer review.
Peer review means others with expertise in the field must have enough
information to duplicate any experiments  and the experiments must have the
ability to falsify or disprove the results obtained by the claimant.

There are other parties that proved
> the SEG operation. We will also be building a modified version in
> 2012.
>

Uh-huh. Who are they?  Where have they published?  Who is "We"?

SEG is documented in detail and except some key tricks and stuff -
> some of the design details are published publicly.
>

Independent verification by disinterested parties must occur before a
discovery can be considered to be verified.  "Key tricks and stuff" are the
province of con men or self-delusionists.


2011\11\03@160127 by RussellMc

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Hat: Admin

Gently please, all.
______________

Hat: List member

Things do not HAVE to follow scientific method to be true (but it's a
good ide [tm])

People may hide things and play in secret if they wish.
In many cases this indicates that things are not as they seem BUT this
does not have to be the case.

Sir Isaac Newton 'discovered' the laws of gravitational attraction but
didn't publish or disclose them for about 15 years as I recall.
I'm pretty sure he did not invent calculus in a weekend (The Tiger is
known by its cvlaws) but raer decided thatthe time had come to use it.

Even if we are personally "sure" that something that others report is
a phantasm, we can choose to use language in our interactions which is
less likely or more likely to incite.
Waving red rags at bull (apocryphal actually) may be fun but not productive..



      Russel

2011\11\03@194749 by IVP

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>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Searl

Having recently done some house repairs, I'm impressed at a the
build quality of a self-powered machine that can drill through a
ceiling and roof then disappear

To lose one this way might be accidental. To lose at least 5 .....

I might have a longer look here later

http://www.searlsolution.com/

Also there's a downloadable film "The John Searl Story"

Not that I believe it's yet another "suppressed invention

2011\11\03@213840 by Carey Fisher

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On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:00 PM, RussellMc <apptechnzspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:

> Hat: Admin
>
> Gently please, all.
> ______________
>
> Hat: List member
> .....
> Waving red rags at bull (apocryphal actually) may be fun but not
> productive.
>

Well, discussing "bull" like "the Searl effect" certainly is not productive
so might as well have fun.

Sorry, I'm in one of those moods where I ignore the advice my momma gave
me "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

Merda taurorum animas conturbit

Carey


>
>
>       Russell
>

2011\11\03@223620 by RussellMc

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                  >> BCC: RM: Me putting on airs, evidently

>  Sorry, I'm in one of those moods where I ignore the advice my momma gave
> me "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."
> Merda taurorum animas conturbit


Yo momma didn't have a moderation flag :-)

And as we don't have slippers or hands or whatever with sufficient
reach, 'needs must'.
Or, hopefully, need won't have to.

Lasciate Ogni Baldanza voic che Entrate*.


         Russell


* Note -  Forster, not Dante.



>
> Merda taurorum animas conturbit
>
> Carey

2011\11\03@235646 by Jim Higgins

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Received from IVP at 11/03/11 23:47 UTC:

>To lose one this way might be accidental. To lose at least 5 .....


Even if they're too strong to chain down, I'm thinking I'd have pretty good video of the last 4.

2011\11\04@022454 by Carey Fisher

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On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 10:35 PM, RussellMc <@spam@apptechnzKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:

>                   >> BCC: RM: Me putting on airs, evidently
>
> >  Sorry, I'm in one of those moods where I ignore the advice my momma gave
> > me "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."
> > Merda taurorum animas conturbit
>
>
> Yo momma didn't have a moderation flag :-)
>

No, but she had a moderation belt strap!

{Quote hidden}

>

2011\11\04@023654 by IVP

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>>To lose one this way might be accidental. To lose at least 5 .....
>
> Even if they're too strong to chain down, I'm thinking I'd have pretty
> good video of the last 4

You think, wouldn't you

2011\11\04@041001 by Electron

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At 02.37 2011.11.04, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Oh well, from my late-Latin (Italian) at least, "merda" is not a nice word at all. :o


>
>Carey
>
>
>>
>>
>>       Russell
>> -

2011\11\04@070651 by IVP

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> Hat: Admin

Perge Scelus Mihi Diem Perficias

2011\11\04@075052 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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Em 4/11/2011 06:09, Electron escreveu:
{Quote hidden}

The same for present days Portuguese. Almost the same for Spanish.


Isaac

2011\11\04@081709 by Yigit Turgut

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On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Carey Fisher <spamBeGonecareyfisherspamBeGonespamncsradio.com> wrote:
>  On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Yigit Turgut <TakeThisOuTy.turgutEraseMEspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> He had built around 30~ prototypes in 10~ years and there is -serious
>> evidence- that the effect exists.
>
>
> "serious evidence" is not science unless it's published for peer review.
> Peer review means others with expertise in the field must have enough
> information to duplicate any experiments  and the experiments must have the
> ability to falsify or disprove the results obtained by the claimant.

Unfortunately it's not that simple. I don't know if you had gone
through the process to submit-publish a paper but believe me things
are sneaky on that frontage. Most of the journals are not evaluating
based on pure scientific content of the paper, there are other stuff
going on. I encountered a very bad experience after submitting one of
my researches to world's leading top-notch science journal. I had
contributions to papers and I don't even include them in my resume
because it actually means nothing to -me-. I am not trying to project
an expression that the peer-reviewed papers are not valuable, in fact
I think quite the opposite but those "peers" you mention, most
percentage of them consists of people who want to move to an upper
position in their universities or institutes. That is an academic
requirement to have at least a couple of published in an international
journal. Also impact factor of that journal plays a significant role
(when you are in front of the jury). There are parameters other than
the scientific content and passion that pushes one to publish a paper.

Spare an hour or so and do  a literature scan and you will see that
most of the published papers lack genuity. An invention will be
patented and published -only if- there is a commercial end to it. For
example there are no patents regarding intergalactic communications
but this doesn't indicate that there are no achievements on that
topic. I am not saying John is one of those inventors but I know more
than a dozen cases where inventor doesn't want to patent and disclose
the details of his work due to obvious reasons.

John doesn't have that much scientific background and it's even funny
that he assumes himself a Prof. An educated reader can easily spot
that  he lacks some fundamental scientific knowledge but this doesn't
mean that he is fraud, and it also doesn't mean that he is not. What I
share here  is that I saw one of the prototypes weighted approximately
3.6~kg and after the device is on it's weight reduced to 2~kg without
any vector against gravity. This was all in room temperature and there
was a 11~ degrees of temperature decrease at the rolling discs, which
is a behavior tended toward superconductivity. There is something at
his work that doesn't fit our current understanding and thats what I
am after.

Maybe the effect is just like a logical threshold level, it's either
going full speed up or stays still ; can't comment on that. But this
wouldn't explain why the weight of the discs have reduced so it seems
to be a linear effect. We will get chance to build and test one in
2012.

> There are other parties that proved
>> the SEG operation. We will also be building a modified version in
>> 2012.
>>
>
> Uh-huh. Who are they?  Where have they published?  Who is "We"?

Check out the site there is information regarding to it.  Who are we ?
We are the shadows in the night, saver of mankind.. Or a private
research lab.. (:

> SEG is documented in detail and except some key tricks and stuff -
>> some of the design details are published publicly.
>>
>
> Independent verification by disinterested parties must occur before a
> discovery can be considered to be verified.  "Key tricks and stuff" are the
> province of con men or self-delusionists.

It is always safer to take your place among crowded part of the
discussion, that is a very basic tendency in human beings. You rely on
the scientific knowledge that we gained in the last 300K years and I
can say that you got a full house in your hand (but not a straight
flush). Just remind yourself that that full house left us in the lurch
more than a couple of times in the past. I am not defending John or
etc, I am defending what I saw and it is much more valuable to me than
a peer-reviewed journal.

2011\11\04@115946 by Jim Higgins

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Received from Yigit Turgut at 11/04/11 12:17 UTC:

>It is always safer to take your place among crowded part of the discussion,
>that is a very basic tendency in human beings. You rely on the scientific
>knowledge that we gained in the last 300K years and I can say that you got a
>full house in your hand (but not a straight flush). Just remind yourself
>that that full house left us in the lurch more than a couple of times in the
>past. I am not defending John or etc, I am defending what I saw and it is
>much more valuable to me than a peer-reviewed journal.


The claims by Searl are extraordinary and therefore require extraordinary proof.  As far as I can see by browsing many Searl-related web pages, there is zero proof.  There is no working device.  There are only demonstrations of various components, and rather than demonstrating the Searl Effect, they demonstrate well known phenomena long explained by basic physics.

there is no question in my mind that levitation of a magnet over a rotating wheel with a conductive rim is impressive to many.  But the same effect produced by a changing magnetic field close to a conductive disc that is free to rotate on a shaft is what has been driving those electromechanical induction wattmeters (spinning aluminum disc electric meters) on our homes since about 1889.  Placed in that context, the effect is a bit less impressive.

There's an explanation in physics for whatever you saw, and when you arrive at that explanation it won't involve the Searl Effect.

2011\11\04@142643 by RussellMc

face picon face
Hat: Admin.

Keep it civil guys.

When it gets to the does/doesn'/does stage y'all may as all do summat else.

I'm out all day.
Presumably bad cop is at your service.

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