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'[OT]:: China calling ...'
2010\01\08@104030 by Russell McMahon

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I'll be in Hong Kong and southern China ("over the border") from late
January to early February.
May have a brief stop in Singapore on the way back. Or, just maybe a day or
so in Kuala Lumpur, where I haven't been so far.

If anyone wants to say hello as I pass though please advise and I'll provide
better dates in due course.


     Russell

.

2010\01\08@124523 by John Chung

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Hi Russell,

I am in KL. If you have any KL questions just message me.

John

--- On Fri, 1/8/10, Russell McMahon <spam_OUTapptechnzTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2010\01\10@112008 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 12:45 PM 1/8/2010, you wrote:
>Hi Russell,
>
>I am in KL. If you have any KL questions just message me.
>
>John

And I'll be in what is traditionally considered South China (Shanghai)*
for a couple of days in late January before heading north to Manchuria.

*The North/South dividing line on the coast is the Huai river, and
the Qinling mountain range inland, dating from the Song dynasty
(12th century).

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
.....speffKILLspamspam.....interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com



2010\01\11@012446 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 12:24 AM, Spehro Pefhany <EraseMEspeffspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTinterlog.com> wrote:
> And I'll be in what is traditionally considered South China (Shanghai)*
> for a couple of days in late January before heading north to Manchuria.

I believe "Manchuria" is not used any more inside China. It kind of
reminds the people of the humiliating past history. "Northeast China"
would be a better term to use now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchuria

> *The North/South dividing line on the coast is the Huai river, and
> the Qinling mountain range inland, dating from the Song dynasty
> (12th century).

It is rather impressive you know the dividing line. ;-) But I am not
so sure if it is dating from the Song Dynasty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_southern_China


--
Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com

2010\01\11@024343 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 01:24 AM 1/11/2010, you wrote:
>On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 12:24 AM, Spehro Pefhany <speffspamspam_OUTinterlog.com> wrote:
> > And I'll be in what is traditionally considered South China (Shanghai)*
> > for a couple of days in late January before heading north to Manchuria.
>
>I believe "Manchuria" is not used any more inside China. It kind of
>reminds the people of the humiliating past history. "Northeast China"
>would be a better term to use now.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchuria

Point taken, Xiaofan, and I will be careful, especially within China, thanks.

I do note that my friend with ancestors from that area does use the term.
I certainly would not use the term "Manchuko".

I fear most non-Chinese would (at best) think of the Beijing/Tianjin area
if I said "Northeast China".

It's impossible to communicate optimally with everyone at once. 8-(

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
@spam@speffKILLspamspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com



2010\01\11@030651 by Apptech

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Interestingly, while everyone outside China tends to use only "Beijing" for
the capital, in China the name Peking seems to be acceptable. I was told (I
think :-) ) that it means slightly different things to them but is used and
is understood.

Russell


>>I believe "Manchuria" is not used any more inside China. ...

> I do note that my friend with ancestors from that area does use the term.
> I certainly would not use the term "Manchuko".

> I fear most non-Chinese would (at best) think of the Beijing/Tianjin area
> if I said "Northeast China".

2010\01\11@041124 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Apptech <KILLspamapptechnzKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
> Interestingly, while everyone outside China tends to use only "Beijing" for
> the capital, in China the name Peking seems to be acceptable. I was told (I
> think :-) ) that it means slightly different things to them but is used and
> is understood.
>

As far as I know, it is only used for historical context. For example,
Peking University is actually the official English name for Beijing
University. Similarly Tsinghua university is the official name for
QingHua  university, another top Chinese university. In both cases,
the name has been widely used before the official HanYu PinYin
system is adopted in 1956 in mainland China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin
http://english.pku.edu.cn/AboutPKU/History/
http://www.tsinghua.edu.cn/eng/board1/boardlist2.jsp?boadid=32&bid2=3203&pageno=1


--
Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com

2010\01\11@042021 by speff

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Quoting Apptech <RemoveMEapptechnzTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com>:

> Interestingly, while everyone outside China tends to use only "Beijing" for
> the capital, in China the name Peking seems to be acceptable. I was told (I
> think :-) ) that it means slightly different things to them but is used and
> is understood.
>
> Russell

There is also the similar old name Peiping, or Beiping in Pinyin (the  
second character is ping = peace rather than jing = capital, and the  
first is bei= northern, of course). The last change was after the  
communists won the civil war and moved the capital back from Nanjing  
(Nanking).

According to the Wikipedia article on Beijing, the city name was pronounced
(in Mandarin) more like Beiking 400 years ago when the name was transliterated
-- they say that the consonant sound in Mandarin itself has shifted--  
just as the English 'great vowel shift' occurred in a similar time  
period. Perhaps such a change is unlikely now with so much old  
recorded language floating around.

And, of course, the IATA airport code today is still PEK, just as  
Guangzhou is still CAN (from Canton).


2010\01\11@042139 by speff

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Quoting Apptech <spamBeGoneapptechnzspamBeGonespamgmail.com>:

> Interestingly, while everyone outside China tends to use only "Beijing" for
> the capital, in China the name Peking seems to be acceptable. I was told (I
> think :-) ) that it means slightly different things to them but is used and
> is understood.
>
> Russell


There is also the similar old name Peiping, or Beiping in Pinyin (the  
second character is ping = peace rather than jing = capital, and the  
first is bei= northern, of course). The last change was after the  
communists won the civil war and moved the capital back from Nanjing  
(Nanking).

According to the Wikipedia article on Beijing, the city name was pronounced
(in Mandarin) more like Beiking 400 years ago when the name was transliterated
-- they say that the consonant sound in Mandarin itself has shifted--  
just as the English 'great vowel shift' occurred in a similar time  
period. Perhaps such a change is unlikely now with so much old  
recorded language floating around.

And, of course, the IATA airport code today is still PEK, just as  
Guangzhou is still CAN (from Canton).


2010\01\11@125554 by Vitaliy

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Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> I believe "Manchuria" is not used any more inside China. It kind of
> reminds the people of the humiliating past history. "Northeast China"
> would be a better term to use now.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchuria

I read the article, but fail to pinpoint which part is "humiliating"?

Can you post a link to a relevant article?

Vitaliy

2010\01\11@150430 by Marechiare

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On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Vitaliy <TakeThisOuTpiclistEraseMEspamspam_OUTmaksimov.org> wrote:
> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
>> I believe "Manchuria" is not used any more inside China. It kind of
>> reminds the people of the humiliating past history. "Northeast China"
>> would be a better term to use now.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchuria
>
> I read the article, but fail to pinpoint which part is "humiliating"?
>
> Can you post a link to a relevant article?
>
> Vitaliy

Risky kind of the joke :-)  I definitely would not get it I were on
not yours side of the river :-) You should be sort of careful posting
the kind of things.

2010\01\11@153304 by Vitaliy

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Marechiare wrote:
>>> I believe "Manchuria" is not used any more inside China. It kind of
>>> reminds the people of the humiliating past history. "Northeast China"
>>> would be a better term to use now.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchuria
>>
>> I read the article, but fail to pinpoint which part is "humiliating"?
>>
>> Can you post a link to a relevant article?
>>
>> Vitaliy
>
> Risky kind of the joke :-)  I definitely would not get it I were on
> not yours side of the river :-) You should be sort of careful posting
> the kind of things.

No humor is involved. Xiaofan can respond off-list if the subject is in fact
so touchy.

I know the Chinese are sensitive about people referring to Xinjiang as
"Uighurstan", but IIUC there the reason is curbing Uighur nationalism and
secessionist attitudes.

Vitaliy

2010\01\11@154613 by Marechiare

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On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Vitaliy <RemoveMEpiclistspamTakeThisOuTmaksimov.org> wrote:
> No humor is involved. Xiaofan can respond off-list if the subject is in fact
> so touchy.
>
> I know the Chinese are sensitive about people referring to Xinjiang as
> "Uighurstan", but IIUC there the reason is curbing Uighur nationalism and
> secessionist attitudes.

Ok, no problem.
Guess what was surname of the "garrison commander of northern Manchuria"? :-)

2010\01\11@160829 by Vitaliy

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Marechiare wrote:
> Guess what was surname of the "garrison commander of northern Manchuria"?
> :-)

You mean Major General Maksimov (from first Google search result)?

Sorry, I must be slow today (or in general). I don't understand what you're
getting at. "Maksimov" is only slightly less popular in Russia than "Smith"
is in the English-speaking world.

Vitaliy

2010\01\11@163634 by Marechiare

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On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Vitaliy <piclistEraseMEspam.....maksimov.org> wrote:
> Marechiare wrote:
>> Guess what was surname of the "garrison commander of
>> northern Manchuria"?
>> :-)
>
> You mean Major General Maksimov (from first Google search
> result)?
>
> Sorry, I must be slow today (or in general). I don't understand
> what you're getting at. "Maksimov" is only slightly less popular
> in Russia than "Smith" is in the English-speaking world.

You do understand it. :-)

2010\01\11@203939 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 1:55 AM, Vitaliy <EraseMEpiclistspammaksimov.org> wrote:
>> I believe "Manchuria" is not used any more inside China. It kind of
>> reminds the people of the humiliating past history. "Northeast China"
>> would be a better term to use now.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchuria
>
> I read the article, but fail to pinpoint which part is "humiliating"?

Mainly the Japanese invasion and Manchukuo period. There
are some strong anti-Japanese sentiment inside China because
of the war with Japan. The 8-year full scale war with Japan started in
1937. But actually the real start is the September 18 Incident
in 1931. Lots of people got killed in Northeast China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukden_Incident


--
Xiaofan

2010\01\11@204411 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 4:32 AM, Vitaliy <RemoveMEpiclistEraseMEspamEraseMEmaksimov.org> wrote:
> I know the Chinese are sensitive about people referring to Xinjiang as
> "Uighurstan", but IIUC there the reason is curbing Uighur nationalism and
> secessionist attitudes.
>

I think no country will allow secession of a major portion of their
territory, not in China, not in Canada, not in UK, not in any other
countries.

Talking more about this issue will go to politics and I would
not want to go there. So I will stop here.

--
Xiaofan

2010\01\11@212359 by Vitaliy

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Marechiare wrote:
>>> Guess what was surname of the "garrison commander of
>>> northern Manchuria"?
>>> :-)
>>
>> You mean Major General Maksimov (from first Google search
>> result)?
>>
>> Sorry, I must be slow today (or in general). I don't understand
>> what you're getting at. "Maksimov" is only slightly less popular
>> in Russia than "Smith" is in the English-speaking world.
>
> You do understand it. :-)

AFAIK I'm not related to General Maksimov.

Whatever. :-)

Vitaliy

2010\01\11@214316 by David Meiklejohn

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Xiaofan Chen wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 1:55 AM, Vitaliy <RemoveMEpiclistspam_OUTspamKILLspammaksimov.org> wrote:
>>
>> I read the article, but fail to pinpoint which part is "humiliating"?
>
> Mainly the Japanese invasion and Manchukuo period.

Actually the Chinese consider much of their history from the Opium wars in
the mid 19th century, which China lost and had to give a series of
concessions, such as Hong Kong and dividing Shanghai into zones for
foreigners and Westerners in China not being subject to Chinese law, up
until the victory over the Japanese, to be humiliating.


David Meiklejohn
http://www.gooligum.com.au


2010\01\11@223510 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 10:42 AM, David Meiklejohn
<RemoveMEdavidTakeThisOuTspamspamgooligum.com.au> wrote:
>>> I read the article, but fail to pinpoint which part is "humiliating"?
>>
>> Mainly the Japanese invasion and Manchukuo period.
>
> Actually the Chinese consider much of their history from the Opium wars in
> the mid 19th century, which China lost and had to give a series of
> concessions, such as Hong Kong and dividing Shanghai into zones for
> foreigners and Westerners in China not being subject to Chinese law, up
> until the victory over the Japanese, to be humiliating.
>

That is true. It is often called the semi-feudal and semi-colonial period,
starting from the 1840 Opium war and ended in 1949.

--
Xiaofan

2010\01\12@075216 by Russell McMahon

face picon face
This thread is teetering on the edge of becoming unacceptable.
I am personally entirely happy with it so far BUT it will not take much all
to get some [[excessively sensitive* ]] person upset for reasons which will
be inobvious to most of us (including me probably).

By all means continue BUT please take due care and DO NOT BITE BACK if
aforesaid es person eventuates


                 Russell.

* That's a joke. Of sorts. And NO I do not have anyone specific in mind.
Really. It's just near certain that enough discussion of history that
involved politics will end up seeming too political to somebody sooner or
later.

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