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'[OT:] Women in Engineering'
2004\02\18@111607 by Robert Rolf

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Wouldn't an engineer analyze the problem and devise an appropriate solution?

What's wrong with hanging out where the Nurses or Teachers are?
Better M/F ratio and YOU become the one being swarmed.
Equally intelligent and equally good looking. Not that that should
be a criteria since eventually she'll look like her mother, and
when the lights are out, what does it matter? And nurses tend to
be more 'caring' since it takes a certain kind of personality to
pursue the profession.

And your primarily conclusion is erroneous.
They were all single at one time or other.

Robert

"Keith L. Kovala" wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2004\02\18@114929 by Dal Wheeler

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Rolf"


> What's wrong with hanging out where the Nurses or Teachers are?
> Better M/F ratio and YOU become the one being swarmed.
> Equally intelligent and equally good looking. Not that that should
> be a criteria since eventually she'll look like her mother, and
> when the lights are out, what does it matter?

Except that only engineers think engineers and engineering are cool.  My RN wife
tends to fall asleep when I talk about engineering / neat new technology.

>And nurses tend to
> be more 'caring' since it takes a certain kind of personality to
> pursue the profession.

The 'caring' is correct; but reserved mostly only for patients and *other*
people than their spouses.  One can be pretty sick and have that nightengale you
married tell you to just suck it up.  :')

-Dal

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2004\02\18@162427 by llile

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My High school Electronics class had one woman out of 40 students.

My college  graduating class had 400 EE's, three women.  One of them was,
shall we put it politely, not too interested in men, lowering the odds
considerably for us guys.

>Wouldn't an engineer analyze the problem and devise an appropriate
solution?

However, my Dance classes, Contra Dances, and other dance activites
usually have 60% women.  That is why EE's should learn to dance.  Dancing,
amazingly, can be quite mathematical at certain levels.  An appropriate
solution indeed!

A common vocation is actually a big minus for a relationship.  Working for
the same employer as your spouse is a huge minus.  Both of you can get
laid off at the same time, and there is nothing to talk about but work at
the dinner table.  Working at the same small business is a disaster for
marriages, because every strain is a strain both at work and at home and
when the small business goes South, so does the marriage.  So my advice:
engineers should not marry with other engineers, IMHO.

The trend is for more women to go into tech fields, if I am not mistaken,
however we are a long way from 50-50.

-- Lawrence Lile





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Wouldn't an engineer analyze the problem and devise an appropriate
solution?

What's wrong with hanging out where the Nurses or Teachers are?
Better M/F ratio and YOU become the one being swarmed.
Equally intelligent and equally good looking. Not that that should
be a criteria since eventually she'll look like her mother, and
when the lights are out, what does it matter? And nurses tend to
be more 'caring' since it takes a certain kind of personality to
pursue the profession.

And your primarily conclusion is erroneous.
They were all single at one time or other.

Robert

"Keith L. Kovala" wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2004\02\18@164124 by D. Jay Newman

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> My High school Electronics class had one woman out of 40 students.
>
> My college  graduating class had 400 EE's, three women.  One of them was,
> shall we put it politely, not too interested in men, lowering the odds
> considerably for us guys.

Unless you're an old-timer like myself, then things haven't improved much
since my college days.

> >Wouldn't an engineer analyze the problem and devise an appropriate
> solution?
>
> However, my Dance classes, Contra Dances, and other dance activites
> usually have 60% women.  That is why EE's should learn to dance.  Dancing,
> amazingly, can be quite mathematical at certain levels.  An appropriate
> solution indeed!

Square dancing! It's both mathematical and easy to learn. Not to mention
is was a *great* aerobic excercise.

> A common vocation is actually a big minus for a relationship.  Working for
> the same employer as your spouse is a huge minus.  Both of you can get
> laid off at the same time, and there is nothing to talk about but work at

It depends. My wife and I both work for Penn State, but for different
sub-units. While we occasionally talk about programming over the dinner
table, this is rare. I work on things at home; when Lee is home she doesn't
program at all.

> the dinner table.  Working at the same small business is a disaster for
> marriages, because every strain is a strain both at work and at home and
> when the small business goes South, so does the marriage.  So my advice:

Agreed. Both partners working for the same small business is a big strain
and risk. On the other hand, I've seen couples build a business together.

It depends on the people involved. I've also seen some pretty messy
divorces that came out of similar situations.
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2004\02\18@164538 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> So my advice: engineers should not marry with other engineers, IMHO.

Apparently I like beta-girls. My first long-lasting relation was one of
three (out of 300) electronics students (even though girls were far more
common in my field - computers / maths). And her specialism was not one
of the sissy things like datacommunications, radio stuff or other
low-current low-voltage things: she specialised high-voltage
high-current things like explosive isolation breakdown in power cables
at 300kV. A pity her mother did not like me. My next girlfriend (and now
wife) studied physics, and again not one of the sissy subjects (she did
her major in theoretical phyiscs - something with theoretical particles
that even high-energy engineers think are absurd). Nowadays she has
drifted far from that field, but I still feel mathematically handicapped
compare to her (and compared the first girl too). Our youngest son has
both her intellect and my practical/experimental attitude. He has shown
remarkeable interest in my soldering iron (2y). Soon I will have to lock
up my equipment real good.

Wouter van Ooijen

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2004\02\18@171106 by Anthony Toft

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> marriage.  So my advice: engineers should not marry with
> other engineers, IMHO.

However someone who is at least tolerant (if not supportive) of the passion
is essential for a successful relationship. There is nothing worse than
overcoming a big hurdle in a project and having that feeling deflated with a
'so?' or to be ridiculed for enjoying what you do.

True for anything not just engineering

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2004\02\18@183649 by Jinx

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> > marriage.  So my advice: engineers should not marry with
> > other engineers, IMHO.

> However someone who is at least tolerant (if not supportive)
> of the passion is essential for a successful relationship

Hmmm, I wonder how tolerant Mrs Gauss was

"Ask her to wait a moment - I am almost done."

Carl Friedrich Gauss, while working, when informed that his
wife is dying

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2004\02\18@184934 by William Chops Westfield

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On Wednesday, Feb 18, 2004, at 13:23 US/Pacific, EraseMEllilespam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTSALTONUSA.COM
wrote:

>
> However, my Dance classes, Contra Dances, and other dance activites
> usually have 60% women.  That is why EE's should learn to dance.
> Dancing,
> amazingly, can be quite mathematical at certain levels.  An appropriate
> solution indeed!

Heh.  I met my wife square dancing.  Which \I/ found very comparable to
software engineering.  Subroutines and virtual components and
everything!

> A common vocation is actually a big minus for a relationship.

I'm inclined to agree with that as well.  And with three kids, I am
re-evaluating the whole "both adults should have careers" concept as
well.

Sigh.
BillW

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2004\02\18@203521 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
My wife and I are as different as possible, I think:

Me              Her
-----------     ---------
Engineer        Social work /
               Sunday school
Tall            Short
Blunt           Subtle
Rude            Polite
Rough           Soft
Ugly            Pretty
Beast           Beauty
Machines        Nature
Agnostic        Unitarian
Republican      Democrat
ConservativeLiberal
Meat            Vegetables
Hacking Gardening
Logic           Love

And so on. I have no idea how we have managed this long...
...its time to go home and give her a big hug and a kiss.

---
James.


{Original Message removed}

2004\02\19@035423 by dr. Imre Bartfai

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On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Anthony Toft wrote:

> > marriage.  So my advice: engineers should not marry with
> > other engineers, IMHO.
Or let educate her: I persuaded my wife 6 years ago to attend an EE curse
on our college (where I am teaching), and she accepted, so it was an
interesting situation to teach and even exam her. But she passed excellent
so I am proud of her, and now she is helping me a lot (e. g. routing PCBs,
soldering, testing and a lot of other stuff). It is a very nice thing she
has an idea what I do and if I feel something is a problem, she knows why.

Regards,
Imre

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2004\02\19@045724 by Alan B. Pearce

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>> However, my Dance classes, Contra Dances, and other dance activites
>> usually have 60% women.  That is why EE's should learn to dance.
Dancing,
>> amazingly, can be quite mathematical at certain levels.  An appropriate
>> solution indeed!
>
>Square dancing! It's both mathematical and easy to learn. Not to mention
>is was a *great* aerobic excercise.

Oh you mean there is more than one of us on here. Did drop out a few years
back due to wife's health. However we may get back to it yet. And it is so
much better than line dancing.

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2004\02\19@101114 by Mike Hord

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> > However someone who is at least tolerant (if not supportive)
> > of the passion is essential for a successful relationship

I think the important gauge is how she reacts when you come
home with an armload of crap from a dumpster.

Mike H.

_________________________________________________________________
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2004\02\19@124414 by John Ferrell

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We have a similar profile here.
I call it complimentary compatibility.
So far it has worked pretty well with a few adjustments, both minor & major.
But we only have 43 years of experience...

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\02\19@134434 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Thursday, Feb 19, 2004, at 01:57 US/Pacific, Alan B. Pearce wrote:

>> Square dancing! It's both mathematical and easy to learn. Not to
>> mention
>> is was a *great* aerobic excercise.
>
> Oh you mean there is more than one of us on here. Did drop out a few
> years
> back due to wife's health. However we may get back to it yet.

We're not active, either.  It became impractical with the kids around.
At
our peak we were adequate "C2" level dancers struggling with C3, dancing
three nights a week (two live, one tape group.) (part of the somewhat
infamous (?) "Stanford Quads")

BillW

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2004\02\19@141007 by Dal Wheeler

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Hord"


> > > However someone who is at least tolerant (if not supportive)
> > > of the passion is essential for a successful relationship
>
> I think the important gauge is how she reacts when you come
> home with an armload of crap from a dumpster.

I think thats it bang on.  Just yesterday I scored a truckbed of "resource" from
the particle accelerator project accross the road.  They just got in some large
rack equipment and had a few really beefy packing pallets in the bin.  I showed
up home with it (and a few discarded goodys from the lab(my lab -not the
accelerator :') ).  She just wanted to know if I needed help unloading it.
Thats love!   --Either that or she's long past considering reclaiming the
basement for something other than storage.

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2004\02\19@143246 by D. Jay Newman

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> On Thursday, Feb 19, 2004, at 01:57 US/Pacific, Alan B. Pearce wrote:
>
> >> Square dancing! It's both mathematical and easy to learn. Not to
> >> mention
> >> is was a *great* aerobic excercise.
> >
> > Oh you mean there is more than one of us on here. Did drop out a few
> > years
> > back due to wife's health. However we may get back to it yet.
>
> We're not active, either.  It became impractical with the kids around.
> At
> our peak we were adequate "C2" level dancers struggling with C3, dancing
> three nights a week (two live, one tape group.) (part of the somewhat
> infamous (?) "Stanford Quads")

When I was single I was up to that level (though it was called Advanced
and Challenge at the time), but my wife like dancing, but hates the
dresses. We also had to drop out because of health.
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2004\02\19@161730 by llile

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>but I still feel mathematically handicapped
compare to her (and compared the first girl too).

Just last night my wife (who has a PHD in psychology) was setting up a
statistical test for me.  I may know something about calculus, but if
statistics gets deeper than averages and medians, I am lost!  This had to
do with some kind of T-test.  Dont ask me what the rest of the jargon was.


-- Lawrence Lile
Senior Project Engineer
Toastmaster, Inc.
Division of Salton, Inc.
573-446-5661 voice
573-446-5676 fax




Wouter van Ooijen <wouterEraseMEspam.....VOTI.NL>
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       Subject:        Re: [OT:] Women in Engineering


> So my advice: engineers should not marry with other engineers, IMHO.

Apparently I like beta-girls. My first long-lasting relation was one of
three (out of 300) electronics students (even though girls were far more
common in my field - computers / maths). And her specialism was not one
of the sissy things like datacommunications, radio stuff or other
low-current low-voltage things: she specialised high-voltage
high-current things like explosive isolation breakdown in power cables
at 300kV. A pity her mother did not like me. My next girlfriend (and now
wife) studied physics, and again not one of the sissy subjects (she did
her major in theoretical phyiscs - something with theoretical particles
that even high-energy engineers think are absurd). Nowadays she has
drifted far from that field, but I still feel mathematically handicapped
compare to her (and compared the first girl too). Our youngest son has
both her intellect and my practical/experimental attitude. He has shown
remarkeable interest in my soldering iron (2y). Soon I will have to lock
up my equipment real good.

Wouter van Ooijen

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consultancy, development, PICmicro products

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2004\02\19@164300 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Just last night my wife (who has a PHD in psychology) was setting up a
> statistical test for me.  I may know something about calculus, but if
> statistics gets deeper than averages and medians, I am lost!
> This had to
> do with some kind of T-test.  Dont ask me what the rest of
> the jargon was.

Just a simple test using the Student distribution?

Wouter van Ooijen

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2004\02\19@185039 by Michael Johnston

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In my case its the other way around
She buys loads of crap and then she tells me we go out to much to eat.
When i met her i showed all me collections of copoents that I had collected
and she was awe struck. My wife is a third grade math teacher and is very
gifted. she could design electronic devices with ease if she put her mind to
it.  but as like every teacher in america today she is very stress out and
doesnt have as much free time even on weekends.
Michael Johnston

{Original Message removed}

2004\02\19@192437 by Alexander JJ Rice

picon face
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:18:49 -0500, Natalia <EraseMEsoulsourcespamspamspamBeGoneCOX.NET> wrote:

> Well...with that kind of attitude you certainly won't get one of us!  8-)
>
> -- Natalia "I'm not impressed by shiny things like diamonds" Rakowski
>
>
What if the shiny diamond like thing happened to be one of these new
fangled diamond semiconductors i keep hearing about...

But seriously - i am currently a university student in the UK studying
engineering and less than 10% of my course are female, which is a bit
depressing really. I do a language as an optional extra and there are as
many girls in a class of 16 as there are amongst 120 engineering students.
I have to say that i think in many respects they make better engineers
than most guys who never seem to be able to swallow their pride and listen
to other peoples ideas, let alone accept them or promote them.

Regards

Alex Rice

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2004\02\20@013816 by Edward Gisske

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As a man who used to live with lady who is a Unitarian minister (actually it
is Unitarian Universalist), I have some insight into this question.

As Garrison Keillor once quipped "A segregationist will burn a cross in your
front yard. A Unitarian will burn a question mark..."

Strangely enough, there have been more UU  US presidents than any other
denomination.

Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Newton, Host" <jamesnewtonSTOPspamspamspam_OUTPICLIST.COM>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTSTOPspamspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [OFFLIST:] Women in Engineering


> Well, just what is a Unitarian is an interesting question from what I have
> seen!
>
> My take is that an Agnostic says "no one has a clue" and a Unitarian says
> "everyone has at least part of a clue"
>
> We attend
> http://members.cox.net/vistauu/
> But I mostly tend the garden... The current minister is... Just too much
for
> me.
>
> ---
> James.
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2004\02\20@131443 by Herbert Graf

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> What if the shiny diamond like thing happened to be one of these new
> fangled diamond semiconductors i keep hearing about...
>
> But seriously - i am currently a university student in the UK studying
> engineering and less than 10% of my course are female, which is a bit
> depressing really. I do a language as an optional extra and there are as
> many girls in a class of 16 as there are amongst 120 engineering students.
> I have to say that i think in many respects they make better engineers
> than most guys who never seem to be able to swallow their pride and listen
> to other peoples ideas, let alone accept them or promote them.

       In the case of the university I went to there was a vast difference in the
percentage of women depending on which discipline you were speaking of. For
example, in Electrical it was about 30% female, in Computer it was a little
lower. In most other disciplines it reached 50%, and I believe in Mining
there were more women then men enrolled. So things are certainly looking up.
TTYL

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2004\02\20@172805 by Jinx

face picon face
> lower. In most other disciplines it reached 50%, and I believe
> in Mining there were more women then men enrolled

They weren't training to become gold-diggers were they ? Or
does that come naturally ? ;-)

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