Jose Da Silva wrote:
> It's amazing to see the replies I got for "probably 200mhz or less" :-/
> So, unless you have suggestions on how to get Win98se to install on a 2.4ghz
> machine (it's 1st freeze is attempting to either run or load a snd.drv and I
> did not bother trying further than that since there may be further issues to
> deal with), I think that's about it in terms of this topic.
The problem with Win9x was that it assumed that people would
never have more than 512 MB of RAM and so screws up on systems
with more than that. It is NOT a speed issue since I have win98 SE
running quite happily (dual boot with XP) on an Athlon 3200+ (2.x GHz)
with a gig of RAM. Making the patches to the system.ini file got
it to boot just fine. Everything else also works. It just can't USE
the RAM above 512MB.
CAUSE
The Windows 32-bit protected-mode cache driver (Vcache) determines the
maximum cache size based on the amount of RAM that is present when
Windows starts. Vcache then reserves enough memory addresses to permit
it to access a cache of the maximum size so that it can increase the
cache to that size if needed. These addresses are allocated in a range
of virtual addresses from 0xC0000000 through 0xFFFFFFFF (3 to 4
gigabytes) known as the system arena.
On computers with large amounts of RAM, the maximum cache size can be
large enough that Vcache consumes all of the addresses in the system
arena, leaving no virtual memory addresses available for other functions
such as opening an MS-DOS prompt (creating a new virtual machine).
Workaround
...
Use the System Configuration utility to limit the amount of memory that
Windows uses to 512 megabytes (MB) or less.For additional information
about how to use the System Configuration utility, click the article
number below to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
181966 System Configuration Utility Advanced Troubleshooting Settings
On Wednesday 02 March 2005 04:15 pm, Robert Rolf wrote:
<snip>
Thanks,
Most excellent answer. Much appreciated.
I was thinking it had to do with a snd.drv freezing plus information
mentioning about how some timing problems are caused due to using 16 bit
register counter used for micro-delays.
Old Borland Turbo C and Pascal programs had such a timing delay problem when
using a certain delay routine. If you use today's processors, a 16bit delay
counter runs in no-time-flat (times-out before useful info arrives).
I'll have to look at what needs to be substituted, because even the install
disk refused to run.
> On Wednesday 02 March 2005 04:15 pm, Robert Rolf wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Thanks,
> Most excellent answer. Much appreciated.
>
> I was thinking it had to do with a snd.drv freezing plus information
> mentioning about how some timing problems are caused due to using 16 bit
> register counter used for micro-delays.
Yeah, the ancient DOS Frogger game on a modern machine is 'blink' and
it's done.
> Old Borland Turbo C and Pascal programs had such a timing delay problem when
> using a certain delay routine. If you use today's processors, a 16bit delay
> counter runs in no-time-flat (times-out before useful info arrives).
Yes, this was a problem with Win9X when the fast AMD processors
with cache first came out. It wasn't long before a MS patch came out
that fixed the problem. Win98 SE should have this patch built into the
CDs.
> I'll have to look at what needs to be substituted, because even the install
> disk refused to run.
Interesting.
Can you pull some RAM to get your machine down to 512MB?
That's what I had to do to get it to install fully. Then patched
the system.ini file, then put the RAM back and all worked well
for the XP intolerant software I needed to run.
The Win98SE CD should have at least booted and run the
DOS stuff until the switch to protected mode part way through
through install.
On Wednesday 02 March 2005 07:35 pm, Robert Rolf wrote:
> Jose Da Silva wrote:
> > On Wednesday 02 March 2005 04:15 pm, Robert Rolf wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Most excellent answer. Much appreciated.
> >
> > I was thinking it had to do with a snd.drv freezing plus information
> > mentioning about how some timing problems are caused due to using 16 bit
> > register counter used for micro-delays.
>
> Yeah, the ancient DOS Frogger game on a modern machine is 'blink' and
> it's done.
I've got a Quix game here that's about as bad. Would you recall those
floppy-disk protection schemes which would only allow you to run from
floppy? Imagine installing a 5.25 360k drive just to see it load then
blink. ;-)
> > I'll have to look at what needs to be substituted, because even the
> > install disk refused to run.
>
> Interesting.
> Can you pull some RAM to get your machine down to 512MB?
> That's what I had to do to get it to install fully. Then patched
> the system.ini file, then put the RAM back and all worked well
> for the XP intolerant software I needed to run.
I should have verified first before responding. 256MB.
Guess it's back to the motherboard snd.drv issue.
> The Win98SE CD should have at least booted and run the
> DOS stuff until the switch to protected mode part way through
> through install.
Both OS/2warp3 and DOS boot off of a floppy.
Both freeze at some point.
I didn't take time to see what offends but I'm guessing driver issues.
If you're interested in that sort of stuff, this is about as close to the
problem as I can point you to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/os2ddprog/message/1596
There is another thread which basically mentions about how some drivers run
against a wall due to this 16bit issue. Since Win9x and OS/2 have very
similar roots (especially DOS stuff), then this may tend to be a bit of an
issue.
Only other question which I could consider is if you are using a store-bought
type of Win98 CD or if you are using one which may have been patched for
possibly higher speeds (example a-la-compaq/hp/dell/etc). If you are using a
retail copy okay, then it's definitely a motherboard issue, but if you're
using a CD from one of the big-guys, or a recovery CD which already came
with a fast machine, then I still got the driver issue as a possible
problem.
Anyhow, don't worry about it. I'll have to put a bit of time into resolving
this issue, but at a later date... right now, considered low priority. :-/
