Post by thread:[OT:] It seems not everyone loves Paypal

> http://www.paypalsucks.com/ > > Juts been trying to activate a transfer into Paypal from my > cheque account. > Maybe I won't bother :-) I have used PayPal now for a few years without any problem. But I do keep my fingers crossed, and I keep the amount of money in my account low, just in case. As far as I can tell from the stories PP either works without a hitch, or (in a small number of cases) it just stops working for you without a decent way to do anything about it. I hope I never end up in the latter category! Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email .....listservKILLspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Russel, I use Paypal quite regularly. Yes we have had some problems, but they are solvable. Yes, there will always be someone out there who will gripe and throw rocks at whatever is available. Some other people have said they are fed up with it, but I feel that for a small web based business it is a great deal. My daughter's surplus business uses Paypal almost exclusively, and it works quite smoothly 99% of the time. -- Lawrence Lile Joy Lile Lile Engineering Nichrome wire for the hobbyist and experimenter Check out how to get a free roll of nichrome wire here: http://www.lile.biz Russell McMahon <apptechKILLspamPARADISE.NET.NZ> Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <.....PICLISTKILLspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU> 07/08/2004 08:48 AM Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list To: EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: Subject: [OT:] It seems not everyone loves Paypal http://www.paypalsucks.com/ Juts been trying to activate a transfer into Paypal from my cheque account. Maybe I won't bother :-) -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email @spam@listservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Here is how Paypal went awry for me. 1. I made a mistake: Our policy was to solve complaints (esp complaints about not getting an order or timeliness) by shipping an extra order. That worked fine for a long while, everybody seemed happy. However, we substituted this for the extra cost of delivery confirmation, thinking we were saving money. 2. We - inevitably - had a lost order. Was it shipped to the wrong address? Did the post office lose it? Was it under the couch cushions? Who knows. 3. The first we heard of it was a formal complaint through Paypal. When this happens, Paypal shuts down your account. Nothing moves in, nothing moves out. Our business was essentially closed. They guy could have just sent us an email and we would have fixed it promptly. 4. We could not produce any delivery confirmation for the guy. Paypal would only release the account with delivery confirmation, or if the customer went through some complicated process. 5. The guy got his extra order, said so in an email. But Paypal would not believe us or him. They would only acknowledge the transaction was settled through some link on thier website that only he could access. He was in no way motivated to do this. 6. It took a month to get this guy to go to that link and fill out their form saying he was happy. We had to threaten, cajole, and otherwise manipulate to get him off his duff. By this time we had given up and started a completely different paypal account linked to a different bank acount under a different name. The business did not recover volume for two months at least. So the lessons learned are: 1. Don't keep much money in your paypal account. 2. Always get delivery confirmation or use UPS or Fedex where it is automatic 3. Give people lots of ways to solve complaints with every communication with them - email, phone, cell, etc. so they will contact you directly and not use Paypal's heavyhanded complaint department. 4. Have alternatives in place in case of problems. This is one problem out of hundreds of orders. I have had more problems with my local credit union than I have with Paypal. And I am still a customer there. Paypal isn't perfect, but I contributed to the problem by not making wise business choices. I am still a Paypal customer. Lawrence Lile Joy Lile Lile Engineering Nichrome wire for the hobbyist and experimenter http://www.lile.biz Wouter van Ooijen <KILLspamwouterKILLspamVOTI.NL> Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> 07/08/2004 09:39 AM Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list To: spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: Subject: [OT:] It seems not everyone loves Paypal > http://www.paypalsucks.com/ > > Juts been trying to activate a transfer into Paypal from my > cheque account. > Maybe I won't bother :-) I have used PayPal now for a few years without any problem. But I do keep my fingers crossed, and I keep the amount of money in my account low, just in case. As far as I can tell from the stories PP either works without a hitch, or (in a small number of cases) it just stops working for you without a decent way to do anything about it. I hope I never end up in the latter category! Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email TakeThisOuTlistservEraseMEspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

>-----Original Message----- >From: Russell McMahon [apptechEraseME.....PARADISE.NET.NZ] >Sent: 08 July 2004 14:49 >To: EraseMEPICLISTMITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: [OT:] It seems not everyone loves Paypal > > >http://www.paypalsucks.com/ > >Juts been trying to activate a transfer into Paypal from my >cheque account. Maybe I won't bother :-) I have been having a nightmare trying to pay Chetan for the ATTiny11's. It seems you simply cannot transfer funds into a UK Paypal account from your bank. The only way to get money into the account is to either have someone transfer money from their Paypal account, or pay you via Paypals credit/debit card card facility IF you have a premier account. Regards Mike ======================================================================= This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use, forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or services. ======================================================================= -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservEraseMEEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

>I have been having a nightmare trying to pay Chetan for >the ATTiny11's. It seems you simply cannot transfer funds >into a UK Paypal account from your bank. The only way to >get money into the account is to either have someone >transfer money from their Paypal account, or pay you via >Paypals credit/debit card card facility IF you have a >premier account. Huh ? I don't think I have a paypal premier account. My Paypal a/c was set up before they set up a UK operation, and has always charged my UK credit card quite happily. Just got some bits off Wouter using it. Have never tried to get money out of a Paypal a/c yet, as I have never had occasion to sell anything that would cause payment that way. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservspam_OUTKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

I think he means that you can't pay by credit card unless the person on the receiving end has a Premier account. -- -Randy Glenn Computer Eng. and Mgt. Year IV, McMaster University Chair, McMaster IEEE Student Branch randy.glenn-at-gmail.com - glennrb-at-mcmaster.ca randy.glenn-at-computer.org - randy_glenn-at-ieee.org http://www.randyglenn.ca On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:07:55 +0100, Alan B. Pearce <RemoveMEa.b.pearceTakeThisOuTspamrl.ac.uk> wrote: {Quote hidden}> >I have been having a nightmare trying to pay Chetan for > >the ATTiny11's. It seems you simply cannot transfer funds > >into a UK Paypal account from your bank. The only way to > >get money into the account is to either have someone > >transfer money from their Paypal account, or pay you via > >Paypals credit/debit card card facility IF you have a > >premier account. > > Huh ? > I don't think I have a paypal premier account. My Paypal a/c was set up > before they set up a UK operation, and has always charged my UK credit card > quite happily. Just got some bits off Wouter using it. > > Have never tried to get money out of a Paypal a/c yet, as I have never had > occasion to sell anything that would cause payment that way. > > > > -- > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > email EraseMElistservspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body > -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

It is my understanding that that is not the case. This link is PayPal's stance: http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/personal_vs_business-outside On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:27:13 +0100, Alan B. Pearce <spamBeGonea.b.pearceSTOPspamEraseMErl.ac.uk> wrote: {Quote hidden}> >I think he means that you can't pay by credit card > >unless the person on the receiving end has a Premier account. > > But once paypal bills my CC, it does not matter what sort of a/c the > receiving person has, the money goes into their paypal a/c, and they then do > what they want with it. Paypal is acting just like another credit card, and > bills my credit card to get the necessary amount to get the money for the > transaction. > > > > -- > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > email KILLspamlistservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body > -- -Randy Glenn Computer Eng. and Mgt. Year IV, McMaster University Chair, McMaster IEEE Student Branch randy.glenn-at-gmail.com - glennrb-at-mcmaster.ca randy.glenn-at-computer.org - randy_glenn-at-ieee.org http://www.randyglenn.ca -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

<Wouter van Ooijen comments> > As far as I can tell from the stories PP either works without a > hitch, or (in a small number of cases) it just stops working for > you without a decent way to do anything about it. I hope I > never end up in the latter category! Contracts are written as guides for when something goes wrong. PayPal's contract seems particularly onerous -- particularly when the credit card companies themselves give users the right to challenge a questionable charge and many jurisdictions have laws giving consumers the right to recind a purchase if on inspection the goods aren't what usually and customarily passes under the given description. Most folks don't realize in the US you have the right to give up just about any legal protection or right, even ones "guaranteed" by the US Constitution. Win Wiencke -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email @spam@listserv@spam@spam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

No! that is not the case. I don't have a premier account and each time someone sends me a credit card payment, it asks me to "Accept the payment and upgrade" If I upgrade to a premier account I'll have to pay transaction fee on *every* transaction. :-( and the account upgrade in a non-reversible process. Regards, Chetan > But once paypal bills my CC, it does not matter what sort of a/c the > receiving person has, the money goes into their paypal a/c, and they then do > what they want with it. Paypal is acting just like another credit card, and > bills my credit card to get the necessary amount to get the money for the > transaction. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spamBeGonelistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Hi Wouter-- Why fool with bank transfer payments for anything, that's one of the most expensive methods of currency transactions there is?! I simply print out my own EMO and deposit it into my Thai bank savings account. That printout is a legal, internationally recognized banking instrument. Check the FAQ page. Now the first time my Thai banker saw this thing he had no idea what to do with it ... took almost 24 hours to resolve, so no big deal. They also offer an ATM debit card for international, I think ... don't know anything about it first-hand, though. For the pay button script, I think you have to go ahead and setup an account first, or at least sign the agreement. But there is no need to fund it. The script should be on the "My Account" page ... it's been a while since I needed that. It may also be covered in the FAQ, as well as the agreement. I guess they see no need for giving access to the button until there is an agreement, so I can't see that as a "which is worse" ;-) Regards/Roger, in Bangkok -----Original Message----- They ask $35 for transferring money to my bank account! (Paypal $1). But worse: there is no clear HowTo page about integrating their payment button into my shop software. Or if it exists it is well-hidden, which is worse. Wouter van Ooijen -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu

> Why fool with bank transfer payments for anything, that's one of the > most expensive methods of currency transactions there is?! Because for PayPal it is easy (a few keyclicks) and my total cost is $1 per transfer. > I simply print out my own EMO and deposit it into my Thai bank savings account. I think that will take me 1 hour or more to get it done for the first time - I have no bank office to go to, everything is electronic/internet here. And I don't want to go anywhere at all: that takes *time*! > For the pay button script, I think you have to go ahead and setup an > account first, or at least sign the agreement. I did create an account. > The script should be on the "My Account" page ... > it's been a while since I needed that. No, not there (at least not that I could find it). > It may also be covered in the FAQ, as well > as the agreement. The FAQ is very customer-oriented, not merchant-oriented. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu