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'[OT:] Hot glue okay on circuit boards?'
2004\04\28@234053 by John Pearson

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I would like to glue components down with a dab of hot glue. Are there any reasons not to use hot glue if the parts do not get warm? Okay if a .001 cap gets some across the leads.

Thanks

John

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2004\04\29@001808 by David VanHorn

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At 08:48 PM 4/28/2004 -0700, John Pearson wrote:

>I would like to glue components down with a dab of hot glue. Are there any reasons not to use hot glue if the parts do not get warm? Okay if a .001 cap gets some across the leads.

A loctite tack-pack adhesive would be a better choice.

You don't know if it's conductive, corrosive, or hygroscopic.
I've seen something like this done, which resulted in nearly 100% failure rate after 18 months because the glue absorbed moisture, and corroded the tracks off the board.

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2004\04\29@001837 by Russell McMahon

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> I would like to glue components down with a dab of hot glue.
> Are there any reasons not to use hot glue if the parts do not get
> warm? Okay if a .001 cap gets some across the leads.

I'm sure others will have things to say about technical aspects ...

BUT be aware that hotmelt is NOT a permanent glue. It's marvellous for
tacking things down short term but it fails in typically 1 to 2 years.
Anything with more than minimal mass (grams) that relies on it for
mechanical location will come loose.  And the blob may come loose under its
own mass with shock. The glue forms a hard blob with a smooth surface and
with time this has no "stiction" whatsoever. I have seen countless equipment
which uses hotmelt for mechanical location. If it is more than a year or two
old it has failed.

The same goes for the hard ceramic looking glue beloved by oriental
manufacturers. Used to eg strengthen large capacitors etc. It also fails in
time.

Neutral cure silicon rubber is in there for the long haul but is much slower
setting AND utterly anathema according to some assembly standards. (Someone
here will quote you chapter and verse.)

As far as hotmelt goes for own use in one offs - use it if you must and be
aware of its limitations. Electrical conductivity should be low (measure and
see).


       Russell McMahon

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2004\04\29@002942 by David Koski

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On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:48:43 -0700
John Pearson <xerospamKILLspamCMC.NET> wrote:

> I would like to glue components down with a dab of hot glue. Are there any reasons not to use hot glue if the parts do not get warm? Okay if a .001 cap gets some across the leads.
>

I have seen "Shoe Goo" used for years with great success to restrain wires
soldered to circuit boards. It probably takes 12 hours to completly cure but a
small "dab" is much quicker and will start "skinning over" almost immediately.

david

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2004\04\29@013203 by William Chops Westfield

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On Wednesday, Apr 28, 2004, at 21:09 US/Pacific, Russell McMahon wrote:

> BUT be aware that hotmelt is NOT a permanent glue...

Be aware that "hotmelt glue" is a generic term that covers a lot of
different compositions.  You can probably find one that has specs
appropriate to electronic assembly (but it won't be cheap), and you can
probably find one that will work pretty well, eventually...

BillW

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2004\04\29@041156 by Alan B. Pearce

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>The same goes for the hard ceramic looking glue beloved by oriental
>manufacturers. Used to eg strengthen large capacitors etc. It also
>fails in time.

For securing PCB components to pass vibration tests on space electronics we
use 3M Scotchweld 2216 or 1863. These are both two part epoxy mixes. The
1863 comes out a sickly green, but id quite nice when needing to have a
"spike" up the side of a component that does not slump as it sets. The 2216
is grey, and is runnier, so will not make such good gussets on the side of
components as it slumps before setting.

>Neutral cure silicon rubber is in there for the long haul but is
>much slower setting AND utterly anathema according to some assembly
>standards. (Someone here will quote you chapter and verse.)

I am given to understand that many of the RTV compounds have acetic acid as
the curing agent, or some variation thereof which becomes active on exposure
to air for the single part types. This is what gives the RTV the
characteristic aroma, and the acid fumes can play havoc with the electronic
components. I am open to correction on this though.

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2004\04\29@043733 by hael Rigby-Jones

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>>From: Russell McMahon [@spam@apptechKILLspamspamPARADISE.NET.NZ]
>>Neutral cure silicon rubber is in there for the long haul but is much
>>slower setting AND utterly anathema according to some assembly
>>standards. (Someone here will quote you chapter and verse.)

>From: Alan B. Pearce [KILLspamA.B.PearceKILLspamspamRL.AC.UK]
>
>I am given to understand that many of the RTV compounds have
>acetic acid as the curing agent, or some variation thereof
>which becomes active on exposure to air for the single part
>types. This is what gives the RTV the characteristic aroma,
>and the acid fumes can play havoc with the electronic
>components. I am open to correction on this though.
>

That's why Russel specified "Neutral cure" silicon.

Regards

Mike




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2004\04\29@091115 by Russell McMahon

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> >>From: Russell McMahon [TakeThisOuTapptechEraseMEspamspam_OUTPARADISE.NET.NZ]
> >>Neutral cure silicon rubber is in there for the long haul but is much
> >>slower setting AND utterly anathema according to some assembly
> >>standards. (Someone here will quote you chapter and verse.)
>
> >From: Alan B. Pearce [RemoveMEA.B.PearcespamTakeThisOuTRL.AC.UK]
> >
> >I am given to understand that many of the RTV compounds have
> >acetic acid as the curing agent, or some variation thereof
> >which becomes active on exposure to air for the single part
> >types. This is what gives the RTV the characteristic aroma,
> >and the acid fumes can play havoc with the electronic
> >components. I am open to correction on this though.
> >
>
> That's why Russel specified "Neutral cure" silicon.

Yes.
Common "neutral cure" silicon rubbers release an alcohol - usually stated as
Methyl alcohol.

6 types

       http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/silicones/cureguide-1part.html


MSDS: Ethyl alcohol, methyl alcohol, methyl ethyl ketoxine
Note - this is more complete than most comments on what is released. Others
that say "release methyl alcohol" probably have similar chemistry. The MEK
is released only when water vapour is present AFAIK.


http://www.allprocorp.com/msds/Lighthse/AP%20neutral%20cure%20silicone%20clear-1.cfm

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2004\04\29@093021 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Common "neutral cure" silicon rubbers release an alcohol - usually
>stated as Methyl alcohol.
>
>6 types
>
>  http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/silicones/cureguide-1part.html
>
>
>MSDS: Ethyl alcohol, methyl alcohol, methyl ethyl ketoxine
>Note - this is more complete than most comments on what is released.
>Others that say "release methyl alcohol" probably have similar chemistry.
>The MEK is released only when water vapour is present AFAIK.


However MEK is a great dissolver of plastic, and also somewhat of a health
hazard in its own right. I would not want to be using MEK around those nice
little polystyrene capacitors - the sort with the clear plastic body where
you can see the aluminium foil inside are the specific ones I am thinking
of, but there may be other plastic components I would want to verify the
effect of the MEK before using it in earnest.

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2004\04\29@101519 by John Ferrell

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I have used hot melt glue to prototype in the "dead bug" style. If you build
it on a piece of glass you can scrape a small project off the glass and put
the kludge in a pill bottle for operation...
It is the adhesive of choice for "Manhattan" style construction.
Some of us are strictly hobbyists!

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\04\29@114520 by Russell McMahon

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> >MSDS: Ethyl alcohol, methyl alcohol, methyl ethyl ketoxine
> >Note - this is more complete than most comments on what is released.
> >Others that say "release methyl alcohol" probably have similar chemistry.
> >The MEK is released only when water vapour is present AFAIK.
>
>
> However MEK is a great dissolver of plastic, and also somewhat of a health
> hazard in its own right.

I used MEK for Methyl Ethyl Ketoxine - it's usually used for Methyl Ethyl
Ketone. What the relationship between the two is I don't know. Google has 3
hits on both together and none throw any light on formula or properties of
the ketoxine.

       RM

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2004\04\29@133959 by Sergio Masci

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----- Original Message -----
From: Russell McMahon <RemoveMEapptechspam_OUTspamKILLspamPARADISE.NET.NZ>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [OT:] Hot glue okay on circuit boards?


{Quote hidden}

Couldn't find "Ketoxine" in my little book, but could find "Ketoxime" which is
the group >C=NOH. Try modifying your search.

Regards
Sergio Masci

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