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'[OT:] Challenging - Another thought applied to Pic'
2004\06\25@125318 by Ben Hencke

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well, most of the 35 can have parameters. First calculate all possible
instructions.
I will cheat a little for times sake. Say 16f series uses 14bit
instructions. thats 2^14. Thats 16384 possible instructions
combinations. Really it is of cource quite a bit less because some of
the bits are ignored for some instructions.

Now take 16384^1024
Windows calculator gives me this:
3.681440950105214388934181504608e+4315

Not to mention the config word ;-)

I wonder how many 286 it took them to come up with windows 3.1

Actually it would be neat to perform a genetic algorithm on smaller
bits of code to make subroutines, and then try combinations of those.
With self-programming chips you could make evolving robots. They would
even die after a while from flash overuse.

- Ben


On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:25:21 +0100, Dominic Stratten
<spam_OUTdominic.strattenTakeThisOuTspamntlworld.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2004\06\25@133138 by Robert Ussery

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It's actually pretty cool to think of being able to get useful images,
programs, stories, etc. from random combos of bits, but I see the biggest
problem being not the generation of said information, but rather the
recognition and capture. Say with the latest supercomputers, we can write
1,000 random novels a second. How do you sort between the purely junk ones
and the useful ones? Given that computer sorting could get rid of the
absolutely random junk, to get a perfect novel, program, or picture would
take an incredibly smart, and therefore incredibly slow program or a huge
group of people. Still would be fun tho... kinda like calculating pi to the
umpteenth digit just for the heck of it.

- Robert

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2004\06\25@151348 by Robert B.

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There'd have to be some recognition feedback system to keep it moving in the
right direction if it were ever to happen in our lifetimes.  There are way
more words in the english language than PIC instructions, and way more words
in a novel than a PIC program (see earlier post for the math). But of course
any sort of guidance would destroy the cool random-factor, making it sound a
lot more like boring-old-evolution.  With such a system it might not be too
hard to pair nouns, verbs, punctuation, names, etc. in the right places to
form sentences.  Sort of like an out of control mad-libs game...  And then
the grammatical correctness would of course not guarantee any sort of
coherent plot, almost certainly no underlying themes.

First we need a computer that simulates a human brain and can read really
really fast, and feed in all the best human productions to teach it what is
suspenseful, erotic, happy, sad, entertaining, boring, etc... and THEN use
it as a feedback system and see what evolves.  Might make for some
interesting reading after a few hundred years of untended revisions.  Of
course the flaw with this is that it would only produce things it *thinks*
are enjoyable to humans, i.e. what we programmed it to think we like.

My bet is it would rewrite the Die Hard trilogy.




{Original Message removed}

2004\06\25@163357 by David VanHorn

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>
>With self-programming chips you could make evolving robots. They would
>even die after a while from flash overuse.

Robotic Alzheimers.

I thought of doing this. I've done a tokenized language interpreter in both the PIC and the AVR, for various projects.

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2004\06\25@224422 by Daniel Chia

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Computing pi to the umpteenth digit is actually rather easily achieve
nowadays by good maths software and and a average desktop pc. In Mathematica
5 i enumerated pi to 1 million digits. Didn't take very long too.

I do computer science related topics as part of my training, and being able
to recognise a "perfect novel" is really really hard. For one, we ourselves
cannot really define easily what makes a perfect novel. Plot? Writing style?
Length? and how do we define these? If the computer were able to do such
stuff, my we would have made another great breakthough in what is known as
Natural Language Processing. People have working hard on this problem as as
far as my limited knowledge is i don't think its been done yet.

Recognising images is again the same problem. How do you know what a valid
image is? Perhaps a smart computer could use algorithms to create a black
white kinda outline of figures in it by looking for edges (where the colour
difference between pixels is great) and from there try and look for specific
figures. But like you said, this would take time. And how many shapes would
you want to look for. After that, some screening by humans has to be done.
Difficult task no doubt.

However instead of a supercomputer perhaps what could be done is to take an
approach like SETI, by using screensavers to utilise Personal PC power. By
ensuring your function that generates the images generates distinct range of
images based on input, you assign a range of images for the computer to
generate and analyse.

My 2 cents
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Chia

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration."

    - Thomas Edison

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{Original Message removed}

2004\06\26@041552 by Lindy Mayfield

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>
> Computing pi to the umpteenth digit is actually rather easily
> achieve
> nowadays by good maths software and and a average desktop pc. In
> Mathematica
> 5 i enumerated pi to 1 million digits. Didn't take very long
> too.
>

I wonder if instead of monkeys typing away forever and coming up with a Shakespear sonnet, if that same sonnet could be found ASCII encoded somewhere in the sequence of PI?

So for example, instead of an MP3, I just have a file that says, start at the nth digit of PI (or sqrt of 2?) and go for n digits and play the song.  
This may be similar to the paradox where the spaceman comes to Earth, scans all our known literature and creates one big number.  He then represents this number as a fraction,  takes out a rod made of a special space material and makes a mark on it.  Decoding all the Earth literature when he gets back is only a matter of precise measuring and a bit of calculation.

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2004\06\27@002615 by Jason S

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From: "Lindy Mayfield" <.....Lindy.MayfieldKILLspamspam.....EUR.SAS.COM>
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 1:13 AM


> I wonder if instead of monkeys typing away forever and coming up with a
Shakespear sonnet, if that
> same sonnet could be found ASCII encoded somewhere in the sequence of PI?

There's a theorem in math that PI (or any irrational number) contains every
finite substring, but as far as I know, it's still an open problem; there is
no proof the the theorem is true or false.

> So for example, instead of an MP3, I just have a file that says, start at
the nth digit of PI (or sqrt of 2?)
> and go for n digits and play the song.

This would be true if the theorem is, but for a lot of strings, expressing
the starting index would be longer than the string itself even if you take
advantage of  very large number notation like Knuth's notation.

> This may be similar to the paradox where the spaceman comes to Earth,
scans all our known literature
> and creates one big number.  He then represents this number as a fraction,
takes out a rod made of a
> special space material and makes a mark on it.  Decoding all the Earth
literature when he gets back is
> only a matter of precise measuring and a bit of calculation.

That would assume matter is infinitely divisible so he can put the the mark
anywhere he wants.  Our present understanding of quantum mechanics says that
matter is granular in nature.

JAson

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