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'[EE]whats the best PCB design software around'
2006\10\05@164103
by
genome
Whats the the best PCB design software around, Library. of components, ease
of use, output capability, autorouting etc.. considered...
2006\10\05@165536
by
Xiaofan Chen
On 10/5/06, genome <spam_OUTjtroxasTakeThisOuT
gmail.com> wrote:
> Whats the the best PCB design software around, Library. of components, ease
> of use, output capability, autorouting etc.. considered...
>
It all depends on your budget.
If price is not an issue, go for Mentor Graphics (Board Station/Exepition/PADS)
or Cadence.
2006\10\05@165859
by
stef mientki
genome wrote:
> Whats the the best PCB design software around, Library. of components, ease
> of use, output capability, autorouting etc.. considered...
>
>
>
>
depends on ... and .. and ..
Stef
2006\10\05@171352
by
w d myrick
Look at http://www.mentala.com/ I have
used Their SuperPCB and SuperCAD for
several years and I am very satisfied
with it.
Derward Myrick
----- Original Message -----
From: "genome" <.....jtroxasKILLspam
@spam@gmail.com>
To: <piclist
KILLspammit.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 3:31 PM
Subject: [EE]whats the best PCB design
software around
> Whats the the best PCB design software
around, Library. of components, ease
> of use, output capability, autorouting
etc.. considered...
>
>
>
> --
2006\10\05@172703
by
Shawn Wilton
I would completely disagree. We have Cadence, we have Mentor, and most of
our engineers hate Mentor. Few people like Cadence, everyone loves Altium.
On 10/5/06, Xiaofan Chen <.....xiaofancKILLspam
.....gmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}>
> On 10/5/06, genome <
EraseMEjtroxasspam_OUT
TakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
> > Whats the the best PCB design software around, Library. of components,
> ease
> > of use, output capability, autorouting etc.. considered...
> >
>
> It all depends on your budget.
>
> If price is not an issue, go for Mentor Graphics (Board
> Station/Exepition/PADS)
> or Cadence.
> -
2006\10\06@001104
by
Xiaofan Chen
On 10/5/06, Shawn Wilton <black9
spam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
> I would completely disagree. We have Cadence, we have Mentor, and most of
> our engineers hate Mentor. Few people like Cadence, everyone loves Altium.
>
You may be right that Altium Designer and even Altium PCAD are easier to use.
But I believe they are not in the same league as Mentor tools. So it all depends
on the design. It is also said that Altium tools tend to be very buggy. At least
Protel 99 and 99SE gave me this impression. It is said that DXP
is even worse. PCAD is better in terms of stability but it is less powerful. The
analog simulation tools integrated with Altium is also said to be very lousy...
initial play with Expedition tells me it is not that easy to be used
but at least it
is much more stable and I think I can get used to it later.
2006\10\06@001921
by
Herbert Graf
On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 04:31 +0800, genome wrote:
> Whats the the best PCB design software around, Library. of components, ease
> of use, output capability, autorouting etc.. considered...
Well, that all depends on your budget and your requirements. It's like
asking what's the best car.
For my hobby work I've used the GEDA suite. It's free, open source, and,
well, cranky. But once you get around the quirks it's pretty decent
software.
For my professional work I've used Orcad and Allegro. They have WAY more
quirks, are VERY expensive, but both are VERY good tools that can handle
about as big a board you want.
TTYL
2006\10\06@022959
by
Shawn Wilton
|
Ironic, because I work with a bunch of ex-HP guys and they all HATE Mentor
tools. They've been using them for 10+ years too...
There are some very large companies (including ours) that use Altium tools
and I have yet to hear any complaints. The simulation is actually quite
good. Don't know what you mean by "very buggy", would be nice if you could
follow up with some examples. Mentor and Cadence have more bugs than any
piece of s/w I have ever seen.
If you're making your judgements against Altium based on their software from
some 6 years ago, that's hardly a fair comparison.
On 10/5/06, Xiaofan Chen <@spam@xiaofancKILLspam
gmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}>
> On 10/5/06, Shawn Wilton <
KILLspamblack9KILLspam
gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would completely disagree. We have Cadence, we have Mentor, and most
> of
> > our engineers hate Mentor. Few people like Cadence, everyone loves
> Altium.
> >
>
> You may be right that Altium Designer and even Altium PCAD are easier to
> use.
> But I believe they are not in the same league as Mentor tools. So it all
> depends
> on the design. It is also said that Altium tools tend to be very buggy. At
> least
> Protel 99 and 99SE gave me this impression. It is said that DXP
> is even worse. PCAD is better in terms of stability but it is less
> powerful. The
> analog simulation tools integrated with Altium is also said to be very
> lousy...
>
> initial play with Expedition tells me it is not that easy to be used
> but at least it
> is much more stable and I think I can get used to it later.
> -
2006\10\06@040030
by
genome
2006\10\06@053205
by
Vasile Surducan
On 10/6/06, Xiaofan Chen <TakeThisOuTxiaofancEraseME
spam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/5/06, Shawn Wilton <RemoveMEblack9
TakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
> > I would completely disagree. We have Cadence, we have Mentor, and most of
> > our engineers hate Mentor. Few people like Cadence, everyone loves Altium.
> >
Between hating Eagle or hating Pads it's not such a big difference,
maybe that hating an autorouter being able to route on 14 layers or
more is better than one which is dying on two... Altium is not on my
hating list, but I must add it.
> You may be right that Altium Designer and even Altium PCAD are easier to use.
> But I believe they are not in the same league as Mentor tools. So it all depends
> on the design. It is also said that Altium tools tend to be very buggy. At least
> Protel 99 and 99SE gave me this impression.
Yes, but Protel have a gerber wiever and a 3D designer for the PCB,
which others does not have it... And Mentor's libraries must be
bought...
It is said that DXP
> is even worse. PCAD is better in terms of stability but it is less powerful. The
> analog simulation tools integrated with Altium is also said to be very lousy...
If you need analogic simulation than maybe not on a PCB package ?
greetings,
Vasile
2006\10\06@055341
by
Alan B. Pearce
>Yes, but Protel have a gerber wiever and a 3D designer for
>the PCB, which others does not have it...
Orcad has a Gerber viewer, and a 3D viewer (used to called Intellicad, but
believe it has changed its product name). I believe they are both
unsupported products, and the 3D viewer requires export to a different file
format (one of the AutoCAD ones IIRC) and requires one to be using the
Capture CIS version so you have component height information in the
database.
2006\10\06@085529
by
Xiaofan Chen
On 10/6/06, Vasile Surducan <piclist9EraseME
.....gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you need analogic simulation than maybe not on a PCB package ?
>
Oh yes you are right. I have used PSpice and Saber in school and used
PSpice extensively in the last job. Currently I am using Saber.
Regards,
Xiaofan
2006\10\06@090104
by
Xiaofan Chen
On 10/6/06, Vasile Surducan <EraseMEpiclist9
gmail.com> wrote:
> And Mentor's libraries must be bought...
>
It seems that medium/big companies are making their own libraries
anyway to suit their process capability. The process to build a PCB
pattern is similar in my previous company and the current company.
Both are not using the vendor-provided libraries.
Regards,
Xiaofan
2006\10\06@100423
by
alan smith
Mentor has its issues (having spent the last few years using Expedition)
Every package has quirks. Just like microcontrollers, just need to pick something and hopefully you made the right decision...over time you will figure it out if you did.
For my consulting work I moved from an old DOS version of OrCAD to Eagle. Sure there was a learning curve, but its not a bad price. I don;t have the autorouter module, but I do have the pro version
Xiaofan Chen <RemoveMExiaofancEraseME
EraseMEgmail.com> wrote:
On 10/5/06, genome wrote:
> Whats the the best PCB design software around, Library. of components, ease
> of use, output capability, autorouting etc.. considered...
>
It all depends on your budget.
If price is not an issue, go for Mentor Graphics (Board Station/Exepition/PADS)
or Cadence.
2006\10\06@155048
by
Steve Baldwin
|
> It all depends on your budget.
> If price is not an issue, go for Mentor Graphics (Board
> Station/Exepition/PADS) or Cadence.
I don't agree with this approach. You need to decide what it is that you want
to do and choose the appropriate tool. High end tools are capable of
excellent results if you become expert in their use.
If you are going to be cranking out dense, high speed boards, then tools like
Board Station, Specctra, etc make good sense. If your mainstay is going to
be 2 layer boards and you write the firmware, do the accounts and make the
tea, then perhaps Eagle is indeed "the best" for your needs.
For those high end boards, get the business card of a PCB designer with
high-end tools.
Steve.
==========================================
Steve Baldwin Electronic Product Design
TLA Microsystems Ltd Microcontroller Specialists
PO Box 15-680, New Lynn http://www.tla.co.nz
Auckland, New Zealand ph +64 9 820-2221
email: RemoveMEstevespam_OUT
KILLspamtla.co.nz fax +64 9 820-1929
=========================================
2006\10\06@162852
by
Shawn Wilton
|
Agreed, sometimes the best thing to do is do the schematic yourself and then
have someone else do the layout. We have VERY dense board layout outsourced
for $100/hr. Saves us quite a bit of money.
On 10/6/06, Steve Baldwin <RemoveMEsteveTakeThisOuT
spamtla.co.nz> wrote:
{Quote hidden}>
> > It all depends on your budget.
> > If price is not an issue, go for Mentor Graphics (Board
> > Station/Exepition/PADS) or Cadence.
>
> I don't agree with this approach. You need to decide what it is that you
> want
> to do and choose the appropriate tool. High end tools are capable of
> excellent results if you become expert in their use.
> If you are going to be cranking out dense, high speed boards, then tools
> like
> Board Station, Specctra, etc make good sense. If your mainstay is going to
> be 2 layer boards and you write the firmware, do the accounts and make the
> tea, then perhaps Eagle is indeed "the best" for your needs.
> For those high end boards, get the business card of a PCB designer with
> high-end tools.
>
> Steve.
>
>
> ==========================================
> Steve Baldwin Electronic Product Design
> TLA Microsystems Ltd Microcontroller Specialists
> PO Box 15-680, New Lynn
http://www.tla.co.nz
> Auckland, New Zealand ph +64 9 820-2221
> email:
EraseMEstevespam
spamBeGonetla.co.nz fax +64 9 820-1929
> =========================================
>
>
> -
2006\10\07@191520
by
William Chops Westfield
On Oct 6, 2006, at 12:50 PM, Steve Baldwin wrote:
>> If price is not an issue, go for Mentor Graphics (Board
>> Station/Exepition/PADS) or Cadence.
>
> I don't agree with this approach. You need to decide what it is
> that you want to do and choose the appropriate tool.
That might work if you're already quite knowledgeable about PCB
design/etc. If you have less experience, you might want to work
backward: "this PRO package has this feature emphasized, Now why
would I want to use it?" My experience with SW in general is that
high-end tools tend to include a lot of "features" that enable it
to work better in large, professional environments (version control,
file locking, licensing niceties, direct interfaces to business tools,
simulation, support of particular vendor requirements, support of
documentation requirements, SW administration hooks, etc.) In
general, a lot of these features do little to make the average engineer
any happier about using the package (and sometimes quite the opposite),
but they are nevertheless "important" to some degree in a professional
environment.
BillW
2006\10\08@090353
by
Vasile Surducan
On 10/6/06, Xiaofan Chen <RemoveMExiaofancKILLspam
gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/6/06, Vasile Surducan <piclist9STOPspam
spam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > If you need analogic simulation than maybe not on a PCB package ?
> >
>
> Oh yes you are right. I have used PSpice and Saber in school and used
> PSpice extensively in the last job. Currently I am using Saber.
With all the shame, I have never simulated an analogic design...
I've tested intensively between 18 and 28 on breadboard and since then
directly on PCB (with some PCB tricks for untested analog design...)
I think there is no accurate analog simulator (even the pspice looks
sometime good, and theoretical good results could give also Electronic
Workbench)
But the real model can only be tested.
greetings,
Vasile
2006\10\08@091355
by
Vasile Surducan
On 10/8/06, William Chops Westfield <spamBeGonewestfwSTOPspam
EraseMEmac.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}>
> On Oct 6, 2006, at 12:50 PM, Steve Baldwin wrote:
>
> >> If price is not an issue, go for Mentor Graphics (Board
> >> Station/Exepition/PADS) or Cadence.
> >
> > I don't agree with this approach. You need to decide what it is
> > that you want to do and choose the appropriate tool.
>
> That might work if you're already quite knowledgeable about PCB
> design/etc. If you have less experience, you might want to work
> backward: "this PRO package has this feature emphasized, Now why
> would I want to use it?" My experience with SW in general is that
> high-end tools tend to include a lot of "features" that enable it
> to work better in large, professional environments (version control,
> file locking, licensing niceties, direct interfaces to business tools,
> simulation, support of particular vendor requirements, support of
> documentation requirements, SW administration hooks, etc.) In
> general, a lot of these features do little to make the average engineer
> any happier about using the package (and sometimes quite the opposite),
> but they are nevertheless "important" to some degree in a professional
> environment.
You know what are saying. Pads will not make you more happy, but
will make from you a proffesional designer which Eagle can't do.
Unless your need is'nt a two layer board with 50 components...
It's very difficult to compare CAD software. Pads logic it's a sh!t
compared with Eagle or Orcad capture. But changing footprints in an
Eagle already made PCB design is definitely a bigger one compared with
Pads. For the sanity of designing easy a PCB you should cry editing
the schematic...
greetings,
Vasile
2006\10\08@105316
by
Xiaofan Chen
On 10/8/06, Vasile Surducan <KILLspampiclist9spamBeGone
gmail.com> wrote:
>
> With all the shame, I have never simulated an analogic design...
> I've tested intensively between 18 and 28 on breadboard and since then
> directly on PCB (with some PCB tricks for untested analog design...)
> I think there is no accurate analog simulator (even the pspice looks
> sometime good, and theoretical good results could give also Electronic
> Workbench)
>
> But the real model can only be tested.
>
You are right to say that "real model can only be tested". However, we
should still give SPICE simulator (like PSpice) or other analog simulators
(like SABER) due respect. They can be really very useful in many cases.
I've done some pure transistor-based amplifier (transconductance amplifier
for Photodiode) and PSpice simulation result is really very accurate to predict
the passband and the gain.
For SABER you can even do sophisficated system simulation. I was shown
a SABER simulation which simulated a patented inrush current control
circuit. It actually quite accurately predict the junction temperature of the
main MOSFET.
Of course it takes time to get the simulation to work. Sometimes it is
actually faster to get the board done and get the results than getting the
PSpice simulation to converge. That is especially true for Switch-Mode
power supply simulation. Then again there are dedicated SMPS simulation
like PSIM. Vendors like Linear Tech also provide good simulation package
for their own Opamps/PWM controllers.
I am hooked to analog simulation. I've used in almost all my previous
design and I am also doing quite some simulation for the current design.
Regards,
Xiaofan
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