Post by thread:[EE]Looking for a Camera module. Time vs money

What is your time worth to engineer this? Do you want to do the transfer, or spend your time designing and debugging? Why not use a consumer digital camera and project the film using a relay lens to get appropriate image size? Some cameras have electronic shutter control via USB. Many cameras can do several frames per second if focus and exposure are locked. And given the 8mm film aspect ratio (4:3) you want 2048 x 1536. A lowly 3 MP camera today. With modern optics you can get as good a result as your 'direct projection' method. The film grain is probably larger than an 8 MP camera pixel size. And since you likely already have a digital camera, the only tinkering is with the relay lens. Robert Tomas Larsson wrote: {Quote hidden}> As far as I understadn it a "module" is a CCD-Sensor with a picture > processor. > > The only things I can find after some googling is "camera modules for mobile > phones" and similar. > > What Iwant to do is a device to transfer traditional 8mm film to digital > media. > As you know, the film has very high "resolution" and to be somewhat > "future-safe" I want to do it with as high resolution as possible. > My idea is to do it fram by frame, and then asseble all the frames in a > computer. > First i was thinking of using a digital camera but the optics creates a > problem since i basically want to do a "contact-copy" of the film, i.e. > project the image directly on the ccd. > > The various similar projects I've seen basically use a cam, and record the > film as it runs, but the quality of the cams are not enough. > > I'm looking for a resolution at 2048x1024 or higher. > > So basically what I want, a high quality CCD with image-processor, at least > 3Mpix, preferably USB-IF, but serial/paralell data is fine as well, since i > can do a usb-if with a PIC or similar > I dont need/want any oprics or zoom-functions. > > With best regards > > Tomas Larsson > Sweden > http://www.tlec.se > http://www.ebaman.com > > Verus Amicus Est Tamquam Alter Idem > > >>{Original Message removed}

> -----Original Message----- > From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTmit.edu > [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspam@spam@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Rolf > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:26 AM > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. > Subject: Re: [EE]Looking for a Camera module. Time vs money > > What is your time worth to engineer this? Do you want to do > the transfer, or spend your time designing and debugging? Well, actually both, for fun and pleasure and finally, I have a couple of km 30+ year 8mm film that need to be transfered so I can store the actual film in a safe enviroment, probably N2 atmosphere at -30 degC. > > Why not use a consumer digital camera and project the film > using a relay lens to get appropriate image size? Some > cameras have electronic shutter control via USB. > Many cameras can do several frames per second if focus and > exposure are locked. > I've thought about that, to easy I guess, he he. > And given the 8mm film aspect ratio (4:3) you want 2048 x > 1536. A lowly 3 MP camera today. Well, you can project a 8mm film quite large (A0 size or so) without getting any grain, so I thought that getting a resolution so it can be viewed on 42 in HDTV or similar is the lowest resolution I can accept. {Quote hidden}> > With modern optics you can get as good a result as your > 'direct projection' > method. The film grain is probably larger than an 8 MP camera > pixel size. > > And since you likely already have a digital camera, the only > tinkering is with the relay lens. > > Robert > With best regards Tomas Larsson Sweden http://www.tlec.se http://www.ebaman.com Verus Amicus Est Tamquam Alter Idem {Quote hidden}> Tomas Larsson wrote: > > > As far as I understadn it a "module" is a CCD-Sensor with a picture > > processor. > > > > The only things I can find after some googling is "camera > modules for > > mobile phones" and similar. > > > > What Iwant to do is a device to transfer traditional 8mm film to > > digital media. > > As you know, the film has very high "resolution" and to be somewhat > > "future-safe" I want to do it with as high resolution as possible. > > My idea is to do it fram by frame, and then asseble all the > frames in > > a computer. > > First i was thinking of using a digital camera but the > optics creates > > a problem since i basically want to do a "contact-copy" of > the film, i.e. > > project the image directly on the ccd. > > > > The various similar projects I've seen basically use a cam, > and record > > the film as it runs, but the quality of the cams are not enough. > > > > I'm looking for a resolution at 2048x1024 or higher. > > > > So basically what I want, a high quality CCD with > image-processor, at > > least 3Mpix, preferably USB-IF, but serial/paralell data is fine as > > well, since i can do a usb-if with a PIC or similar I dont > need/want > > any oprics or zoom-functions. > > > > With best regards > > > > Tomas Larsson > > Sweden > > http://www.tlec.se > > http://www.ebaman.com > > > > Verus Amicus Est Tamquam Alter Idem > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: piclist-bouncesKILLspammit.edu > >>[.....piclist-bouncesKILLspam.....mit.edu] On Behalf Of Peter P. > >>Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 12:44 AM > >>To: EraseMEpiclistspam_OUTTakeThisOuTmit.edu > >>Subject: Re: [EE]Looking for a Camera module. > >> > >>Tomas Larsson <tomas <at> tlec.se> writes: > >> > >> > >>>I'm looking for a 2-4 Mpixel Camera/CCD module. > >>>Preferably, no optics and USB or uC I/F. > >> > >>What is a module ? You can buy imagers from e.g. Atmel. but > a 'module' > >>I don't know. Nowadays you buy a chip and it has a USB or > 10 (12) bit > >>camera interface. > >> > >>Peter P. > >> > >> > >>--

> -----Original Message----- > From: piclist-bouncesspam_OUTmit.edu > [@spam@piclist-bouncesKILLspammit.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Rolf > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:26 AM > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. > Subject: Re: [EE]Looking for a Camera module. Time vs money > > What is your time worth to engineer this? Do you want to do > the transfer, or spend your time designing and debugging? > > Why not use a consumer digital camera and project the film > using a relay lens to get appropriate image size? Some > cameras have electronic shutter control via USB. > Many cameras can do several frames per second if focus and > exposure are locked. > One more thing, since I need to synchronize a stepper-motor (frame-feed) with the camera, it might be difficult. If so, I need to hack into the camera-driver, and derivate a signal in order to run the stepper-motor. Next thing, most cameras today only seems to output jpeg's and I want it in raw tiff/bmp format or similar. Since it is going to be encoded in mpeg4, compressing an already compressed image isn't a very good idea. Most cameras don't allow total controll of the shooting process unfortunately. {Quote hidden}> And given the 8mm film aspect ratio (4:3) you want 2048 x > 1536. A lowly 3 MP camera today. > > With modern optics you can get as good a result as your > 'direct projection' > method. The film grain is probably larger than an 8 MP camera > pixel size. > > And since you likely already have a digital camera, the only > tinkering is with the relay lens. > > Robert > > Tomas Larsson wrote: > > > As far as I understadn it a "module" is a CCD-Sensor with a picture > > processor. > > > > The only things I can find after some googling is "camera > modules for > > mobile phones" and similar. > > > > What Iwant to do is a device to transfer traditional 8mm film to > > digital media. > > As you know, the film has very high "resolution" and to be somewhat > > "future-safe" I want to do it with as high resolution as possible. > > My idea is to do it fram by frame, and then asseble all the > frames in > > a computer. > > First i was thinking of using a digital camera but the > optics creates > > a problem since i basically want to do a "contact-copy" of > the film, i.e. > > project the image directly on the ccd. > > > > The various similar projects I've seen basically use a cam, > and record > > the film as it runs, but the quality of the cams are not enough. > > > > I'm looking for a resolution at 2048x1024 or higher. > > > > So basically what I want, a high quality CCD with > image-processor, at > > least 3Mpix, preferably USB-IF, but serial/paralell data is fine as > > well, since i can do a usb-if with a PIC or similar I dont > need/want > > any oprics or zoom-functions. > > > > With best regards > > > > Tomas Larsson > > Sweden > > http://www.tlec.se > > http://www.ebaman.com > > > > Verus Amicus Est Tamquam Alter Idem > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: KILLspampiclist-bouncesKILLspammit.edu > >>[RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTmit.edu] On Behalf Of Peter P. > >>Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 12:44 AM > >>To: spamBeGonepiclistspamBeGonemit.edu > >>Subject: Re: [EE]Looking for a Camera module. > >> > >>Tomas Larsson <tomas <at> tlec.se> writes: > >> > >> > >>>I'm looking for a 2-4 Mpixel Camera/CCD module. > >>>Preferably, no optics and USB or uC I/F. > >> > >>What is a module ? You can buy imagers from e.g. Atmel. but > a 'module' > >>I don't know. Nowadays you buy a chip and it has a USB or > 10 (12) bit > >>camera interface. > >> > >>Peter P. > >> > >> > >>--

Tomas, I have been playing with the same idea. I bought the PLUSTEK OPTICFILM 7200 35 mm film scanner a year or so ago. It has a resolution of 7200 DPI (hence its name). I bought it to scan old 35 mm slides which it is meant for, but I also came to think along the same lines as you regarding old 8 mm films. Considering Lee Jones' reasoning, this scanner should be more than adequate. The 7200 has a start button, so it would probably be quite feasible to hack this scanner into what you (we) want. Then you would have to have some software that crops the image into a suitable format. And make a feeder mechanism... But it would certainly be doable. PerL Sweden. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomas Larsson" <TakeThisOuTtomasEraseMEspam_OUTtlec.se> To: "'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'" <RemoveMEpiclistTakeThisOuTmit.edu> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: RE: [EE]Looking for a Camera module. Time vs money {Quote hidden}>> -----Original Message----- >> From: piclist-bouncesEraseME.....mit.edu >> [EraseMEpiclist-bouncesmit.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Rolf >> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:26 AM >> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. >> Subject: Re: [EE]Looking for a Camera module. Time vs money >> > One more thing, since I need to synchronize a stepper-motor (frame-feed) > with the camera, it might be difficult. > >