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'[EE]Homemade PCB'
2006\09\25@223036 by genome

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Hello...
I'm trying homemaking a PCB using toner trnsfer method from a xerox
machine.. what paper is good to use with this method.. on the net i see
peaple saying magazine paper is good enough.. sime use glossy paper.. when
they mean glossy paper, is that standard inkjet photo paper?

Ive got line width as thin as 15mil in ultiboard.. will this method be able
to etch that thicness in the PCB... Or is there a better lowcost method..

can ordinary inkjet be used instead of a toner from a photocopier.. I
printed an image using HP inkjet(reffiled cartridge not the real hp ink) on
a transparency film and put it on a ferric chloride solution for over a day
now and it does not seem to dissolve.. although I have not tried to etch
anything from it, I was wondering if it could be used and if anybody here
tried it...

thanks



2006\09\26@003701 by Orin Eman

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On 9/25/06, genome <spam_OUTjtroxasTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:
> Hello...
> I'm trying homemaking a PCB using toner trnsfer method from a xerox
> machine.. what paper is good to use with this method.. on the net i see
> peaple saying magazine paper is good enough.. sime use glossy paper.. when
> they mean glossy paper, is that standard inkjet photo paper?

> Ive got line width as thin as 15mil in ultiboard.. will this method be able
> to etch that thicness in the PCB... Or is there a better lowcost method..

Painful... difficult enough to make toner stick to a glossy surface in
the first place.
Expect a lot of touch-up.

> can ordinary inkjet be used instead of a toner from a photocopier.. I
> printed an image using HP inkjet(reffiled cartridge not the real hp ink) on
> a transparency film and put it on a ferric chloride solution for over a day
> now and it does not seem to dissolve.. although I have not tried to etch
> anything from it, I was wondering if it could be used and if anybody here
> tried it...

How would you get the ink onto the PCB?

Personally, I've had good luck with the MG Chemicals boards.

Inkjet printer, inkjet overhead projector slide, small UV tube
(easiest just to buy the official one), cheap under-counter
fluourescent fitting, pre-sensitized board, developer, ferric chloride
and a couple of photographic trays.

I do use a light box to touch up the slide before using it.  A Sharpie
pen works fine.

Great for one-off single sided boards.  More than one, I've used AP Circuits.

Orin.

2006\09\26@024146 by jtroxas

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how do you cut presensitised boards without exposing them...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Orin Eman" <.....orin.emanKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.hardware.microcontrollers.pic
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]Homemade PCB


{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\09\26@055444 by Victor Fraenckel

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Genome,

There is a fairly active group on YahooGroups with some 3000 members
that can help you with questions about homebrew PCBs. Check it out here:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/

HTH

Vic

*____________________________________________________________________________________________*

*Victor Fraenckel
KC2GUI
victorf ATSIGN windreader DOT com**
*


2006\09\26@064446 by Mike Harrison

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On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:40:57 +0800, you wrote:

>how do you cut presensitised boards without exposing them...

Guillotine or jigsaw/hacksaw. Boards come with stick-on lightproof film.

>> Ive got line width as thin as 15mil in ultiboard.. will this method be
>>> able
>>> to etch that thicness in the PCB... Or is there a better lowcost method..
>>
>> Painful... difficult enough to make toner stick to a glossy surface in
>> the first place.
>> Expect a lot of touch-up.

With the UV photo method & decent board material, linewidths & spacing of 10mil are easily
achievable.  

>>> can ordinary inkjet be used instead of a toner from a photocopier.. I
>>> printed an image using HP inkjet(reffiled cartridge not the real hp ink)
>>> on
>>> a transparency film and put it on a ferric chloride solution for over a
>>> day
>>> now and it does not seem to dissolve.. although I have not tried to etch
>>> anything from it, I was wondering if it could be used and if anybody here
>>> tried it...

The copper should turn pink instantly on contact with ferric chloride. If it doesn't there is still
resist there.


>> Inkjet printer, inkjet overhead projector slide, small UV tube

Tracing papaer works better than OHP slides, especially on a laser printer. Better opacity &
adhesion, & cheaper. Results are variable on inkjets from what I've heard.


For tons of info on making good homemade PCBs, see my page :
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html


2006\09\26@071510 by Howard Winter

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Mike,

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:53:27 +0100, Mike Harrison wrote:

> For tons of info on making good homemade PCBs, see my page :
> http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html

Excellent stuff!  

Where do you get your tracing paper?  All the artist-supply and commercial stationers around here seem to have closed - do you know if Staples sell
it?

Just one glitch on your page:  Mega Electronics have moved their web site to:  http://www.megauk.com/

Have you tried their economy boards (a sandwich with fibreglass faces, SRBP in the middle) ?

Cheers,



Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\09\26@072127 by Tamas Rudnai

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I do not know if this is a good procedure or not, but you can read it on
Maplin's site:

Single and double-sided copper clad SRBP and glass fibre boards coated with
a positive photo-resist suitable for use with our UV exposure box. The
boards are covered with light proof protective film, which should not be
removed until the board is used. The PCB should be exposed using our UV
exposure box and a circuit overlay transparency. Exposure time will be from
8 to 15 minutes. Mix together 0.5l approx with one teaspoonful of sodium
hydroxide (available from most chemists) and pour into a tray (CH38R).
Gently rock the exposed PCB in the tray until the unwanted photo resist is
dissolved away. Etch the board in a bath of ferric chloride and after
rinsing, expose the PCB in the UV box for a further 10 minutes. Wash of all
the remaining etch resist in a tray of sodium hydroxide solution.



On 26/09/06, Mike Harrison <.....mikeKILLspamspam.....whitewing.co.uk> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\09\26@073749 by Mike Harrison

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On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:15:06 +0100 (BST), you wrote:

>Mike,
>
>On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:53:27 +0100, Mike Harrison wrote:
>
>> For tons of info on making good homemade PCBs, see my page :
>> http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html
>
>Excellent stuff!  
>
>Where do you get your tracing paper?  All the artist-supply and commercial stationers around here seem to have closed - do you know if Staples sell
>it?

Can't remember - I know Staples didn't last time I looked but may have just been out of stock as
they did have  A3 & A2 pads. I think Viking do it. The last few I've had were "Gateway Tracing"
90GSM by Royal Sovereign RS442715, pink cover

>Just one glitch on your page:  Mega Electronics have moved their web site to:  http://www.megauk.com/

OK Thanks

>Have you tried their economy boards (a sandwich with fibreglass faces, SRBP in the middle) ?

Yes a -while ago - can't remember what the resist was like bit it was certainly much easier on the
drills - you can get away with non-carbide on this stuff, and it's easier to cut without a
guillotine.

2006\09\26@075134 by Mike Harrison

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On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:21:25 +0100, you wrote:

>I do not know if this is a good procedure or not, but you can read it on
>Maplin's site:
>
>Single and double-sided copper clad SRBP and glass fibre boards coated with
>a positive photo-resist suitable for use with our UV exposure box. The
>boards are covered with light proof protective film, which should not be
>removed until the board is used. The PCB should be exposed using our UV
>exposure box and a circuit overlay transparency. Exposure time will be from
>8 to 15 minutes. Mix together 0.5l approx with one teaspoonful of sodium
>hydroxide (available from most chemists) and pour into a tray (CH38R).

NO NO NO. DO Not use Sodium Hydroxide - it totally sucks ( see my page for why), and is the primary
reason for homemade PCBs having a reputation for unreliability & poor repeatability.
Get some silicate stuff. You'll be glad you did.  

2006\09\26@075715 by Joe McCauley

picon face
For 15mil tracks, you might be better getting the artwork plotted at 2x
'life' size & then getting it professionally photo reduced onto film. Be
sure that the artwork as printed on the final film you will use to expose
the PCB is printed on the side of the film which faces the pcb. If not you
will get some measure of scattered light getting at areas you don't want. It
may not make much difference, but it's easy to avoid a potential problem
altogether. When I was making these using photo resist this is how I did
them for hi-density thin tracks. For normal stuff, I printed the artwork
using a laser printer & sprayed the page using a transparantizing spray
(used to be available in art stores, don't have any left & can't remember
the brand name). ~The resulting page was good enough to use directly on the
UV box. Exposures were longer than for an acetate sheet as the page was
translucent rather than transparent.

I never did get good results printing directly to acetate sheet. (small
holes in the print etc.)

Joe

> {Original Message removed}

2006\09\26@081005 by Mike Harrison

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>I never did get good results printing directly to acetate sheet. (small
>holes in the print etc.)

Try Tracing paper

2006\09\26@090116 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2006-09-26 at 14:40 +0800, jtroxas wrote:
> how do you cut presensitised boards without exposing them...

They have a film over them, just cut the board and film.

Presensitized boards aren't THAT sensitive to to non UV light, so you
don't have to take "dark room" precautions like do have to with photos
and film.

TTYL

2006\09\26@091951 by Attila Muhi

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face
I had problem getting good quality etching using ferric chloride if the
pattern wasn't top quality. Using a mixture of 30 % Hydr.peroxide, 30%
hydrochloric acid and 40% water gave a significantly better result. The
etching process here is MUCH quicker, around 30 secs, guess the shorter time
means that the photoresist isn't affected that much ? (my personal theory).

Wear rubber gloves and eye protection !

Regards
Attila - SM4RAN
{Original Message removed}

2006\09\26@131751 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
> can ordinary inkjet be used instead of a toner from a
> photocopier.. I printed an image using HP inkjet(reffiled
> cartridge not the real hp ink) on a transparency film and put
> it on a ferric chloride solution for over a day now and it
> does not seem to dissolve.. although I have not tried to etch
> anything from it, I was wondering if it could be used and if
> anybody here tried it...

It does work, at least with certain printers and certain inks. And it can
also be used to print solder mask and silkscreen layers (in color, of
course). For extra thin copper clad material, you can use an unmodified
printer, or hack the printer to allow a straight feed path for standard
thickness boards.

See:

http://www.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm for all the
details.

I would love to hear if you are able to get the standard HP inks to resist.
So far, MISPRO ink and a curing process have been required.

---
James Newton, massmind.org Knowledge Archiver
EraseMEjamesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmassmind.org 1-619-652-0593 fax:1-208-279-8767
http://www.massmind.org Saving what YOU know.

2006\09\26@212613 by jtroxas

picon face
did you remove anything from the printer like the rollers how did the pcb
thickness fit.. I dont have an epson printer but I have some hp printers
that I dont use anymore.. Icant seem to find how the epson printer was
modified maybe I can adapt the same modification for an hp printer, maybe it
can be done as from the photos it seems the modification were purely
mechanical allowing pcb feeding...

{Original Message removed}

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