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'[EE]DSL Modem question'
2007\08\15@085515 by Mark E. Skeels

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Can anyone tell me if a typical DSL modem is also capable of dialing?

Mark

2007\08\15@090555 by peter green

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Mark E. Skeels wrote:
> Can anyone tell me if a typical DSL modem is also capable of dialing?
You can get ones with dial backup features but they are not the norm.

2007\08\15@090606 by Marc Nicholas

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Dialing what? There's no dialing involved in a DSL handshake...

Are you confused about the role of PSTN?

-marc

On 8/15/07, Mark E. Skeels <spam_OUTmeskeelsTakeThisOuTspamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me if a typical DSL modem is also capable of dialing?
>
> Mark
> -

2007\08\15@090622 by Herbert Graf

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On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 07:53 -0500, Mark E. Skeels wrote:
> Can anyone tell me if a typical DSL modem is also capable of dialing?

No. DSL modems don't work in the voice part of the band at all. TTYL

2007\08\15@092024 by Jake Anderson

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Mark E. Skeels wrote:
> Can anyone tell me if a typical DSL modem is also capable of dialing?
>
> Mark
>  
As far as I'm aware the line filters etc preclude an ADSL modem from
doing anything in the audio band IE anything you can hear.

2007\08\15@093508 by Mark E. Skeels

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Heres' the nature of my question:

The local Sherriff received several 911 hangup calls from our church
building in the last 36 hours.

The line used was the one the DSL modem is connected to. There is also a
FAX machine.

The building is empty (of people) most of the time.

We are trying to figure out how the 911 call could have been made.

Thanks,
Mark

2007\08\15@094725 by Carl Denk

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The DSL filters are for voice equipment like your handset o filter out
the higher frequencies used by DSL. The DSL modem may have voice filters
internally, but the DSL modem is basically a one purpose device,
communicate with the dedicated to your line office DSL equipment and
doesn't need to dial. DSL modems are available with other services, my
Zoom ADSL X6 also has a 4 port ethernet router, and G11 wireless
capabilities all in one box. The DSL modems typically have their own
ethernet address which is used to access the modem's setup and diagnostics.

Just read the message about 911 calls: Is the sheriff able to hear fax
type tones? When a fax or modem attempt to connect with like equipment
on the other end of the line the send out audible handshaking tones, and
these should be audible. If so, check the fax for a fax(es)  that the
transmission was not completed, or a fax that was scheduled to be sent
at a later time. And last is their an intruder, could even be an animal
nose or feet on the keys. Maybe a temporary security camera is needed. :)

Jake Anderson wrote:
> Mark E. Skeels wrote:
>  
>> Can anyone tell me if a typical DSL modem is also capable of dialing?
>>
>> Mark
>>  
>>    
> As far as I'm aware the line filters etc preclude an ADSL modem from
> doing anything in the audio band IE anything you can hear.
>  

2007\08\15@095258 by Peter Todd

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On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 08:34:58AM -0500, Mark E. Skeels wrote:
> Heres' the nature of my question:
>
> The local Sherriff received several 911 hangup calls from our church
> building in the last 36 hours.

Was there any pattern in exactly when the calls were made? IE, say
exactly one hour apart or something?

> The line used was the one the DSL modem is connected to. There is also a
> FAX machine.
>
> The building is empty (of people) most of the time.
>
> We are trying to figure out how the 911 call could have been made.

I'll put my money on the fax machine. Some of them have features like
delayed dialing and the like.

- --
http://petertodd.org
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2007\08\15@105328 by Alan B. Pearce

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>The line used was the one the DSL modem is connected to.
>There is also a FAX machine.
>
>The building is empty (of people) most of the time.
>
>We are trying to figure out how the 911 call could have been made.

Someone has played 'high jinks' and put the fax to send a dummy fax to 911?
It then keeps retrying because no fax machine answers. The 'message' may no
longer be in the fax tray as it has been read into memory, and the machine
just keeps retrying the number every half hour or so.

2007\08\15@124026 by Michael Dipperstein

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Mark,

As others have stated, a standard DSL modem cannot dial out.  Even if
there weren't any filters to prevent signal from the modem from leaking
into the POTS spectrum, DSL modems are not designed to be able to take a
phone line off hook.

My best guesses to the source of the problem are:
1. The FAX machine is calling out.  I would think that the FAX handshake
would be audible to the 911 operators.
2. Somebody else is using the phone line.  Somebody could have accessed
it from the Church's phone room or a cross connect box.
3. The computer hooked to the modem is using a VOIP service to make the
calls.

Three is a real long shot.  One and two are not so far fetched.  If
somebody else is using the church's phone line, you might see a number
of unusual calls that have been made, or there might be a number of 911
hangups from other phones in the same cable bundle.

-Mike

{Original Message removed}

2007\08\15@125013 by Mark E. Skeels

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Let me add a bit more info: the DSL modem is connected to a wireless
network. It's secured with conventional encryption and passwords; I
don't have details at the moment.

If someone attempted a VOIP over the wireless, though, would that
automatically identify with the Phone Line Number?

I know nothing about VOIP.....

Mark

Michael Dipperstein wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2007\08\15@130804 by Michael Dipperstein

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I stopped working in the telephony industry about the same time the VoIP
people were resolving their 911 issues.  The last time I checked, the
goals were to present the local 911 operators with a local phone number.
I believe that they do that now.  I'm not sure how they finally resolved
the issue.  Hopefully somebody else on the list can chime in with the
answer.

-Mike

> {Original Message removed}

2007\08\15@131015 by Herbert Graf

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On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 11:49 -0500, Mark E. Skeels wrote:
> Let me add a bit more info: the DSL modem is connected to a wireless
> network. It's secured with conventional encryption and passwords; I
> don't have details at the moment.
>
> If someone attempted a VOIP over the wireless, though, would that
> automatically identify with the Phone Line Number?

No. There is absolutely zero relationship between a VOIP call made over
a DSL connection, and the phone line that hosts that connection. Case in
point, my internet connection is through DSL on a dry phone line: i.e. a
phone line that has no voice service.

TTYL

2007\08\15@140550 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Herbert Graf wrote:

>> If someone attempted a VOIP over the wireless, though, would that
>> automatically identify with the Phone Line Number?
>
> No. There is absolutely zero relationship between a VOIP call made over
> a DSL connection, and the phone line that hosts that connection.

Exactly. A VoIP service is somewhat like an email server; from the outside,
you can't tell whether I'm reading my email in Los Angeles or in São Paulo,
and you can't (easily) tell whether I'm using my VoIP service from an
Internet connection in Los Angeles or in São Paulo either. (There is the
delay that allows you to estimate the distance, and the call quality that
might give you a clue about the country I'm in, but that's a different
story.)

There are VoIP providers that do have 911 service, and for that purpose
they have an address linked to their VoIP accounts. However, that address
is linked to the /VoIP/ account, not to the DSL account or phone line. So
if I logged in from your computer to my VoIP account and made a 911 call,
the 911 operator would see my address (the one I registered with my VoIP
provider), not yours. (And if it were a prank call, I would get billed, not
you :)

Gerhard

2007\08\15@150741 by Herbert Graf

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On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 10:08 -0700, Michael Dipperstein wrote:
> I stopped working in the telephony industry about the same time the VoIP
> people were resolving their 911 issues.  The last time I checked, the
> goals were to present the local 911 operators with a local phone number.
> I believe that they do that now.  I'm not sure how they finally resolved

What local phone number? If I'm making my call through a cable
connection, or wifi, or other wireless network what local phone number
would be relevant?

There is zero connect between IP activity on a DSL line, and the phone
number of that DSL line.

With regards to VOIP 911 service, the solution was simple: the VOIP
subscriber has to fill out their physical address on signup, and are
charged with keeping that information current.

TTYL

2007\08\15@153548 by Andre Abelian

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Mike,

more sounds like fax machine dialed the number. Most fax machines
can store history that later can be printed. I wouldn't think
some one else accessed externally because of DSL without the filter
will make noise. I do not think some one else used filter
to make 911 call. My recommendation is to use phone logger
connected in between the fax machine and phone line.
http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=8464+KT


Andre




{Original Message removed}

2007\08\15@153748 by Michael Dipperstein

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> From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu [piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu] On
Behalf
> Of Herbert Graf
> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:08 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: RE: [EE]DSL Modem question
>
> On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 10:08 -0700, Michael Dipperstein wrote:
> > I stopped working in the telephony industry about the same time the
VoIP
> > people were resolving their 911 issues.  The last time I checked,
the
> > goals were to present the local 911 operators with a local phone
number.
> > I believe that they do that now.  I'm not sure how they finally
resolved
>
> What local phone number? If I'm making my call through a cable
> connection, or wifi, or other wireless network what local phone number
> would be relevant?

The phone number that somebody would use if they were to call you.

> There is zero connect between IP activity on a DSL line, and the phone
> number of that DSL line.
>
> With regards to VOIP 911 service, the solution was simple: the VOIP
> subscriber has to fill out their physical address on signup, and are
> charged with keeping that information current.

When a VoIP call is placed to 911 does the 911 operator get a telephone
number too, or just an address from a database?  Four or Five years ago,
there was an effort to route the call to the local 911 operator and
present them with all the information that they receive from a call made
over the PTSN.  Job priorities and then jobs changed, so I didn't follow
the effort to its end.

-Mike

2007\08\15@162253 by Michael Dipperstein

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Andre,

I agree with your opinion that the fax machine is most likely the cause;
however I don't think DSL noise would stop somebody from accessing the
phone line externally.  The latest butt-in test sets that the telephone
company technicians use have built-in filters and noise is not a problem
with them.

Also, while the telephone logger is a good idea, won't a logger log
calls dialed from outside of the church too?

-Mike

> {Original Message removed}

2007\08\15@165303 by Nate Duehr

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Michael Dipperstein wrote:
> I stopped working in the telephony industry about the same time the VoIP
> people were resolving their 911 issues.  The last time I checked, the
> goals were to present the local 911 operators with a local phone number.
> I believe that they do that now.  I'm not sure how they finally resolved
> the issue.  Hopefully somebody else on the list can chime in with the
> answer.

VoIP PSTN gateway providers typically outsource this nowadays to a
company that collects the person's home address information, and that
outsourcing company is tied into the E911 network to pass that
information into the E911 database if a call comes in from a VoIP caller.

Most of the time they "brand" this data collection service to look like
it came from the original VoIP provider, or is done at their website,
but the VoIP providers mainly stay out of it.  They do VoIP gateways,
and outsource the 911 headache.

Nate

2007\08\15@165317 by Charles Craft

picon face


-----Original Message-----
>From: Herbert Graf <.....mailinglist3KILLspamspam.....farcite.net>
>Sent: Aug 15, 2007 1:10 PM
>To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <EraseMEpiclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu>
>Subject: Re: [EE]DSL Modem question
>
>On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 11:49 -0500, Mark E. Skeels wrote:
>> Let me add a bit more info: the DSL modem is connected to a wireless
>> network. It's secured with conventional encryption and passwords; I
>> don't have details at the moment.
>>
>> If someone attempted a VOIP over the wireless, though, would that
>> automatically identify with the Phone Line Number?
>
>No. There is absolutely zero relationship between a VOIP call made over
>a DSL connection, and the phone line that hosts that connection. Case in
>point, my internet connection is through DSL on a dry phone line: i.e. a
>phone line that has no voice service.
>

I think a "dry pair" is when you own both ends of the copper
with no telco equipment in the middle.

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2001/pulpit_20010823_000703.html



>TTYL
>
>-

2007\08\15@165928 by Charles Craft

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I assume there's no PBX so no reason to dial "9" before the number?

A more general question for the list:
If you have to dial a "9" to get out on your office line,
how do you dial "911"?  Is it "911" or "9911"?

Our office requires the "9" and a "1" for long distance.
So if you fat finger the number and do a "911" when dialing
and don't notice it, the local police show up to check it out.  %-)


{Original Message removed}

2007\08\15@182331 by Nate Duehr

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Charles Craft wrote:

>> No. There is absolutely zero relationship between a VOIP call made over
>> a DSL connection, and the phone line that hosts that connection. Case in
>> point, my internet connection is through DSL on a dry phone line: i.e. a
>> phone line that has no voice service.
>>
>
> I think a "dry pair" is when you own both ends of the copper
> with no telco equipment in the middle.
>
> http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2001/pulpit_20010823_000703.html

Back in the day you could get a "wet" pair also... one that provided a
point to point amplified audio circuit with line voltage available.
They weren't highly used.  (Cheap T1 channel banks were available by the
time the tariffs for "wet" pairs were easily accessible by all businesses.)

Usually when referring to DSL that comes into a residence without
dial-tone, the more common name for that pair (which DOES have line
voltage on it usually, besides the DSL signal) is "naked DSL".

I also use this type of service to my home.  No dial-tone, DSL only.

I've been seriously considering switching to business-class CATV
broadband delivery (I must have static IP's, multiple).  Their speeds
are climbing high enough that even on a shared LAN in the neighborhood,
and with upstream over-subscription inevitable in such networks... some
areas are starting to see upwards of 6 mb/s as the equipment gets
upgraded.  Rumors of new standards coming in a year or two, to some
areas, starts to rival FIOS speeds... problem is, no fiber around here
for FIOS, so the cable company will invest in those upgrades elsewhere,
where they're fighting to survive against Verizon FIOS.

Around here, it's a two-format "war" with DSL and CATV, and CATV is
fighting back and trying to get DSL customers to jump over with higher
speeds but same prices.

DSL providers haven't shown any interest in going faster, so they're
retaliating by dropping their prices.

I think the CATV provider here should be treated as a common carrier,
just like the telco-DSL provider, though.  I don't use the telco's
ISP... our local regulators require them to transport you to other ISP's
is you so desire (for a small fee).  I want to do the same thing with
the CATV bandwidth, but it'll take another regulatory action to
accomplish that.

Nate

2007\08\16@091326 by Herbert Graf

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On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 12:37 -0700, Michael Dipperstein wrote:
> > What local phone number? If I'm making my call through a cable
> > connection, or wifi, or other wireless network what local phone number
> > would be relevant?
>
> The phone number that somebody would use if they were to call you.

But there's no guarantee that the number is "local". My current phone
line is a VOIP line, the number is for an area code 100kms (60 miles)
away from my actual location. With VOIP the whole concept of "local"
phone numbers don't necessarily apply any more. When I visit my parents
in Europe I can take the VOIP box with me and plug it in over there,
noone can tell that they're actually calling someone 4000kms away.

It's sort of a shame though. There was a time where someone could give
me their prefix (the first 3 numbers after the area code) and I could
tell them roughly where in the city they lived. It's been a LONG time
since that still worked reliably.

{Quote hidden}

It depends where you are. As I understand it, in most built up areas,
the 911 operator will receive the phone number assigned to your VOIP
line (which tells them nothing of your location, it's only useful to
call you back) and the address information you've submitted to your VOIP
provider. If that info isn't correct there is no way for the 911
operator to tell other then to ask you.

IMHO landlines are dead. I dropped mine when I moved. Many of my friends
either have a VOIP line for their primary line, or a cell phone. Most of
us aren't home much anymore anyways, so what's the point of a landline
these days?

TTYL

2007\08\16@091621 by Herbert Graf

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On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 16:53 -0400, Charles Craft wrote:
> >No. There is absolutely zero relationship between a VOIP call made over
> >a DSL connection, and the phone line that hosts that connection. Case in
> >point, my internet connection is through DSL on a dry phone line: i.e. a
> >phone line that has no voice service.
> >
>
> I think a "dry pair" is when you own both ends of the copper
> with no telco equipment in the middle.
>
> http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2001/pulpit_20010823_000703.html

I suppose it depends where you are. My phone provider specifically
referred to it as a "dry phone line" when I ordered it. TTYL

2007\08\16@121032 by Mark E. Skeels

picon face
Here's another question:

Does a DSL modem take the phone line "off hook?" (I doubt it..)

Or does it simply communicate over the phone line, at high frequency,
with no regard for hook status or dial tone?

Mark

2007\08\16@122220 by Michael Dipperstein

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> From: piclist-bouncesspamspam_OUTmit.edu [@spam@piclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu] On
Behalf
> Of Mark E. Skeels
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:10 AM
>
> Here's another question:
>
> Does a DSL modem take the phone line "off hook?" (I doubt it..)

Your doubts are correct.  A DSL modem does not take the line off hook.

> Or does it simply communicate over the phone line, at high frequency,
> with no regard for hook status or dial tone?

That's right.  A regular telephone uses 0-4KHz and on/off hook signaling
(some use ground start too).  ADSL uses 20KHz to ~1.2MHz.  It's likely
the upper limit has been pushed higher now by ADSL+ and ADSL2, as I
stated before, I've been out of the field for a few years now.

-Mike

2007\08\16@124939 by Carl Denk

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No regard to hook status, voice, or dial tone.

Mark E. Skeels wrote:
> Here's another question:
>
> Does a DSL modem take the phone line "off hook?" (I doubt it..)
>
> Or does it simply communicate over the phone line, at high frequency,
> with no regard for hook status or dial tone?
>
> Mark
>  

2007\08\16@125602 by Mark E. Skeels

picon face
Can you guys think of any way a phone line could be induced to go off
hook via a stimulus external to the phone line (not electrically connected?

Mark

2007\08\16@132826 by Michael Dipperstein

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I've seen both warn/chewed insulation and water cause phones to go off
hook.  Off hook is essentially a high resistance short between the two
wires.  It's easy to get a faulty pair to go off hook; it's not so easy
to make it dial 911 without a dialer.

-Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: KILLspampiclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu [RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu] On
Behalf
> Of Mark E. Skeels
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:56 AM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [EE]DSL Modem question
>
> Can you guys think of any way a phone line could be induced to go off
> hook via a stimulus external to the phone line (not electrically
> connected?
>
> Mark
> -

2007\08\16@132845 by Robert Rolf

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Solenoid. R/C servo or DC motor with a small lever to press/release the hookswitch.
Do you need to put it back on-hook when you are done?

Mark E. Skeels wrote:

> Can you guys think of any way a phone line could be induced to go off
> hook via a stimulus external to the phone line (not electrically connected?
>
> Mark

2007\08\16@133739 by Marcel Duchamp

picon face
Mark E. Skeels wrote:
> Can you guys think of any way a phone line could be induced to go off
> hook via a stimulus external to the phone line (not electrically connected?
>
> Mark

This happens at my daughters home occasionally.  She has a CAT-3 system;
her 3 cats chase each other around the house and sometimes knock the
phone handset out of the cradle causing it to go off hook.  Absolutely
no electrical connection from the cats to the phone line.

More seriously, "off hook" means that the two wires that comprise your
phone line have been connected together.  This makes the system go from
no (or very low) current to something in the range of 20mA, give or take
the various tolerances of the system.  So to go off hook, you must do
something to cause current to flow through your phone line.

2007\08\16@133931 by Mark E. Skeels

picon face
Actually, I was thinking this:


There's a WiFi repeater in close proximity to the phone lines. Of
course, it also has a small wall-wart type switching power supply.

I was wondering how possible it might be that some kind of interference
from the repeater or it's power supply might be taking the line off hook
externally, then somehow pulse-dialing 911.

That seems to me almost statistically impossible, let alone to do it 3
times in a 36 hr period. But if the switcher pulsed regularly at the
right frequency...?

Mark

Robert Rolf wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\08\16@135815 by Brad Stockdale

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No... I've seen some strange things. But never a wifi router dialing 911 over
a phone line that its not even connected it. Three times in a day and a
half...

How about this idea: Someone is playing a practical joke and is opening up
your NID outside the location and connecting a phone in and dialing 911...?
That's a lot more probable than a wifi router dialing 911.

Brad


On Thursday 16 August 2007 13:39, Mark E. Skeels wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2007\08\16@144557 by Herbert Graf

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On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 11:10 -0500, Mark E. Skeels wrote:
> Here's another question:
>
> Does a DSL modem take the phone line "off hook?" (I doubt it..)

Nope, it has no mechanism to take a phone line "off hook".

> Or does it simply communicate over the phone line, at high frequency,
> with no regard for hook status or dial tone?

It works exclusively outside of the voice band. Think of it like two
radio stations on different channels, they have no relation to each
other. TTYL

2007\08\16@144729 by Herbert Graf

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On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 11:55 -0500, Mark E. Skeels wrote:
> Can you guys think of any way a phone line could be induced to go off
> hook via a stimulus external to the phone line (not electrically connected?

A shovel hitting the phone line in the ground?

A phone line is a current loop. To go "off hook" a certain amount of
current must flow through the line. This sort of configuration is pretty
much immune to most EMI. TTYL

2007\08\16@145744 by Mark E. Skeels

picon face
Ok, guys, thanks for humoring me. I came to the same conclusions, but
I've got an ME and a IT guy asking me these questions.

Im just a lowly embedded uC programmer...........

Mark

Brad Stockdale wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\08\16@160511 by Howard Winter

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Mark,

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:55:51 -0500, Mark E. Skeels wrote:

> Can you guys think of any way a phone line could be induced to go off
> hook via a stimulus external to the phone line (not electrically connected?

An earthquake shaking the handset off the cradle... a rat gnawing through the insulation...  water in a junction box... a nail through the cable... (I
suppose that's electrically connected, strictly speaking)...

Has anyone checked the cellar to see if there's someone trapped down there, who is trying to signal their plight?

I think following the cable would be a good plan, to see if there's something obvious causing it.  Then again, to see if it's something that isn't obvious!
:-)

Incidentally, you mentioned interference at the right frequency to dial - that would be 10Hz, rather unlikely to find something that slow, especially if
it's in a non-regular pattern like 9-1-1.  Incidentally, in the UK the emergency number is 999, and one reason it wasn't 111 was because cables
swinging about in the breeze could easily short out in that pattern - when they were bare wires, of course.  The European standard is 112, and that
works in the UK as well.

Has anyone looked at the call records for the line, to see if there is anything else strange happening?  If there's some random-number generator at
work (cables moving and causing intermittent shorts) you may find all sorts of random numbers, and 911 just comes up statistically once in a while.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\08\16@162425 by Richard Prosser

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On 17/08/07, Howard Winter <spamBeGoneHDRWspamBeGonespamh2org.demon.co.uk> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

In NZ the number is 111 (911 also works) - but we have a reversed
pulse dial allocation - so the actual pulse train is the same as 999
IIRC. (Or very close).

RP

2007\08\16@162555 by peter green

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Herbert Graf wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 11:10 -0500, Mark E. Skeels wrote:
>  
>> Here's another question:
>>
>> Does a DSL modem take the phone line "off hook?" (I doubt it..)
>>    
>
> Nope, it has no mechanism to take a phone line "off hook".
>
>  
OTOH afaict the DSL side of a "DSL splitter" just wires straight through
to the line so if there was a fault in the DSL modem it could well end
up unintentionally taking the line off hook or even pulse dialing.

2007\08\16@185524 by Matthew Fries

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Here are some practical ideas:

It's a phone line in a church, right? It's possible that the wiring for
this phone line might be in a secluded closet or basement, and there may
have been another extension somewhere in another room that nobody
remembers...

Some corporate use fax machines have the ability to FORWARD incoming
faxes to another phone number. It's used for saving money on long
distance calls. If you have to send 10 faxes to 10 different offices
that are all in the same area code, you could send the fax ONCE to one
of the fax machines, and then it turns around and resends that fax to
the other 9 numbers. I believe Ricoh fax machines have this feature. You
may want to check and make sure it's turned off. Fax Spammers could be
taking advantage of this feature, and making you call 911.

Brad Stockdale wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\08\17@201715 by Nate Duehr

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Howard Winter wrote:

> Has anyone looked at the call records for the line, to see if there is anything else strange happening?  If there's some random-number generator at
> work (cables moving and causing intermittent shorts) you may find all sorts of random numbers, and 911 just comes up statistically once in a while.

Or better, wire up a tape recorder (or something more modern if you
so-desire) and record all calls.  Legalities aside, you would at least
know if the calls are really being placed.

Nate

2007\08\20@062600 by Alan B. Pearce

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>In NZ the number is 111 (911 also works) - but we have a reversed
>pulse dial allocation - so the actual pulse train is the same as 999
>IIRC. (Or very close).

Correct, and the reason that number is chosen is because it is the most
(almost, only 0 has more pulses) number of pulses on the dial, so shorting
phone lines are less likely to 'pulse' the number properly, and also because
in a public phone box the dial is disabled until coins get put in the slot -
unless the digit is a 0 or 1 (in NZ, 9 in UK) where the dial has to go
'right around' and pushes a switch which allows the number to dial.

There is of course the 'schoolboy trick' of dialling the number by pulsing
the hook. I understand that the radio NZ engineers were provided with a
number to call when setting up outside broadcasts, which consisted of a
couple of digits where only one or two pulses were required to dial them,
and then the rest of the number was 1s and 0s. This meant it was easy for
them to call from a public phone if they were having problems setting up the
OB line, and couldn't communicate over that. I assume that dialling 0 or 1
as the last digit must also turn on the microphone, i.e. do the equivalent
of pushing 'button A' which drops the money into the cash box so it cannot
be returned.

2007\08\22@105152 by Mark E. Skeels

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I thought you might appreciate knowing how this whole thing turned out:

It appears that the problem was internal to the phone company. They were
called last Friday and informed us that "something was done that may
have an effect on your  problem."

It did. The 911 calls have stopped. If this continues through to the
weekend, I will reconnect all of the WiFi/DSL/Internet stuff.

However, we have no idea of exactly what was done.

The WiFi repeater remained connected and in place the entire time.

Thanks, PICList, for all your input.........

Mark

2007\08\22@125701 by Alan B. Pearce

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>However, we have no idea of exactly what was done.

Errant employee playing around ???

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