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'[EE] uController recommendation please'
2007\10\26@140924 by Neil Cherry

picon face
A little background first, I play (hobby) with home automation.
I run several Open Source projects (hence I'd like to keep this
on the real cheap, ie spend nothing as possible on tools). I
need to create a board that will convert X10 to Insteon (a
translator of sorts). This is so I can replace a board called
the PL-Link (ASCII to RS485 to X10 converter) in the HCS II.

I'm in need of a micro-controller board that has 2 UARTS and a
a few lines of digital I/O. I need to use tools such as SDCC or
gcc. The speeds are real slow but the code may be a bit heavy
(X10 - Insteon translation). I'd like to keep the pin count down
as I don't want to make this impossible for a novice to solder
together. In fast a ready made board (like something from
Olimex) would be perfect. Any suggestions?

The end objective is this to go into an article for Circuit
Cellar.

--
Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry       spam_OUTncherryTakeThisOuTspamlinuxha.com
http://www.linuxha.com/                         Main site
http://linuxha.blogspot.com/                    My HA Blog
Author of:            Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

2007\10\26@142946 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
Neil Cherry wrote:

> A little background first, I play (hobby) with home automation.
> I run several Open Source projects (hence I'd like to keep this
> on the real cheap, ie spend nothing as possible on tools). I
> need to create a board that will convert X10 to Insteon (a
> translator of sorts). This is so I can replace a board called
> the PL-Link (ASCII to RS485 to X10 converter) in the HCS II.

Hi Neil, sounds nice :)

> I'm in need of a micro-controller board that has 2 UARTS and a
> a few lines of digital I/O. I need to use tools such as SDCC or
> gcc. The speeds are real slow but the code may be a bit heavy
> (X10 - Insteon translation). I'd like to keep the pin count down
> as I don't want to make this impossible for a novice to solder
> together. In fast a ready made board (like something from
> Olimex) would be perfect. Any suggestions?

I can't help with those compilers, or with the ready-made board, but I
could help with the software itself :)

I'd pick a 18F part with 2 USART, the smallest I guess - how many I/O do
you need?

--
Ciao, Dario

2007\10\26@143621 by Neil Cherry

picon face
Neil Cherry wrote:
> A little background first, I play (hobby) with home automation.
> I run several Open Source projects (hence I'd like to keep this
> on the real cheap, ie spend nothing as possible on tools). I
> need to create a board that will convert X10 to Insteon (a
> translator of sorts). This is so I can replace a board called
> the PL-Link (ASCII to RS485 to X10 converter) in the HCS II.
>
> I'm in need of a micro-controller board that has 2 UARTS and a
> a few lines of digital I/O. I need to use tools such as SDCC or
> gcc. The speeds are real slow but the code may be a bit heavy
> (X10 - Insteon translation). I'd like to keep the pin count down
> as I don't want to make this impossible for a novice to solder
> together. In fast a ready made board (like something from
> Olimex) would be perfect. Any suggestions?

Oh, I forgot to mention that one solution is to use a Zilog
s180, they can be purchased at Digikey, they have SDCC support,
I have aboard 60 boards that already support them (left over
HCS II boards from 1992) the only problem is getting eprom for
them.

--
Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry       .....ncherryKILLspamspam@spam@linuxha.com
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Author of:            Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

2007\10\26@145120 by Alex Harford

face picon face
On 10/26/07, Neil Cherry <ncherryspamKILLspamcomcast.net> wrote:
> A little background first, I play (hobby) with home automation.
> I run several Open Source projects

> In fast a ready made board (like something from
> Olimex) would be perfect. Any suggestions?

I've been looking at the Arduino:
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=666

It comes with 1UART but you can run additional ones in software.

And it's an open source design!

Alex

2007\10\26@150303 by Neil Cherry

picon face
Dario Greggio wrote:
> Neil Cherry wrote:

>> I'm in need of a micro-controller board that has 2 UARTS and a
>> a few lines of digital I/O. I need to use tools such as SDCC or
>> gcc. The speeds are real slow but the code may be a bit heavy
>> (X10 - Insteon translation). I'd like to keep the pin count down
>> as I don't want to make this impossible for a novice to solder
>> together. In fast a ready made board (like something from
>> Olimex) would be perfect. Any suggestions?
>
> I can't help with those compilers, or with the ready-made board, but I
> could help with the software itself :)

Well that's really going to be the fun part, I have an Insteon Developer's
kit that I can't share (argh). I need to speak with them about that for
the article. I have considered that I may need to either supply binary
libs or a pre-compiled package.

> I'd pick a 18F part with 2 USART, the smallest I guess - how many I/O do
> you need?

2 for the the RS485 (9600), 2 for the RS232, probably 3 for jumpers
(old school), an LED or two. That's about it. I have considered
using a soft UART but I'd prefer not to as the interrupts can come
from either side and both will have variable bytes in the stream.

--
Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry       .....ncherryKILLspamspam.....linuxha.com
http://www.linuxha.com/                         Main site
http://linuxha.blogspot.com/                    My HA Blog
Author of:            Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

2007\10\26@150735 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
Alex Harford wrote:

> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=666

The board of the Beast :-)))                                    ^^^


> It comes with 1UART but you can run additional ones in software.

can do that with a PIC as well, I was going to suggest that too, but IMO
this works well if the "SW" USART is TX-only...

--
Ciao, Dario

2007\10\26@154927 by Brendan Gillatt

flavicon
face
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Neil Cherry wrote:
> A little background first, I play (hobby) with home automation.
> I run several Open Source projects (hence I'd like to keep this
> on the real cheap, ie spend nothing as possible on tools). I
> need to create a board that will convert X10 to Insteon (a
> translator of sorts). This is so I can replace a board called
> the PL-Link (ASCII to RS485 to X10 converter) in the HCS II.
>
> I'm in need of a micro-controller board that has 2 UARTS and a
> a few lines of digital I/O.

Up to here I would recommend a PIC18F* chip

> I need to use tools such as SDCC or
> gcc.

I would guess the only way to go from here is to use an Atmel ATMega,
though I'm not sure they're available with multiple UARTS - I've never
looked.

> The speeds are real slow but the code may be a bit heavy
> (X10 - Insteon translation).

Both the PIC18F and Atmega will go up to 64KB of code - that should be
_plenty_.

> I'd like to keep the pin count down
> as I don't want to make this impossible for a novice to solder
> together.

Both also come in DIP form.

> In fast a ready made board (like something from
> Olimex) would be perfect. Any suggestions?

Oohh. In that case you could look at the Arduino boards. They won't be
great in the fact that they're very generic. I suggest you write your
article using stripboard and go with a PIC18F or Atmega - most people who
can understand GCC errors can manage perf board =]

> The end objective is this to go into an article for Circuit
> Cellar.

Hope this helps a bit.

- --
Brendan Gillatt
brendan {at} brendangillatt {dot} co {dot} uk
http://www.brendangillatt.co.uk
PGP Key: pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xBACD7433
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2007\10\26@171321 by alan smith

picon face
Can always use a SPI or I2C UART as well.

Brendan Gillatt <EraseMEbrendanspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTbrendangillatt.co.uk> wrote:  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Neil Cherry wrote:
> A little background first, I play (hobby) with home automation.
> I run several Open Source projects (hence I'd like to keep this
> on the real cheap, ie spend nothing as possible on tools). I
> need to create a board that will convert X10 to Insteon (a
> translator of sorts). This is so I can replace a board called
> the PL-Link (ASCII to RS485 to X10 converter) in the HCS II.
>
> I'm in need of a micro-controller board that has 2 UARTS and a
> a few lines of digital I/O.

Up to here I would recommend a PIC18F* chip

> I need to use tools such as SDCC or
> gcc.

I would guess the only way to go from here is to use an Atmel ATMega,
though I'm not sure they're available with multiple UARTS - I've never
looked.

> The speeds are real slow but the code may be a bit heavy
> (X10 - Insteon translation).

Both the PIC18F and Atmega will go up to 64KB of code - that should be
_plenty_.

> I'd like to keep the pin count down
> as I don't want to make this impossible for a novice to solder
> together.

Both also come in DIP form.

> In fast a ready made board (like something from
> Olimex) would be perfect. Any suggestions?

Oohh. In that case you could look at the Arduino boards. They won't be
great in the fact that they're very generic. I suggest you write your
article using stripboard and go with a PIC18F or Atmega - most people who
can understand GCC errors can manage perf board =]

> The end objective is this to go into an article for Circuit
> Cellar.

Hope this helps a bit.

- --
Brendan Gillatt
brendan {at} brendangillatt {dot} co {dot} uk
http://www.brendangillatt.co.uk
PGP Key: pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xBACD7433
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7hjxSEQ3AhiLmPZYg26WbMQ=
=Y8PW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2007\10\26@193930 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 10/27/07, Brendan Gillatt <brendanspamspam_OUTbrendangillatt.co.uk> wrote:
> > I'm in need of a micro-controller board that has 2 UARTS and a
> > a few lines of digital I/O.
>
> Up to here I would recommend a PIC18F* chip
>
> > I need to use tools such as SDCC or gcc.

Why not MPLAB C18?

>
> I would guess the only way to go from here is to use an Atmel
> ATMega, though I'm not sure they're available with multiple
> UARTS - I've never looked.

AVR/ARM MCU/MSP430/H8/M16C all have good gcc support.
sdcc seems to support 8051 well.

I think AVR is a good choice. Many of them have 2 UART.
Some have 4.
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/param_table.asp?family_id=607&OrderBy=part_no&Direction=ASC


Regards,
Xiaofan

2007\10\26@200407 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
> I would guess the only way to go from here is to use an Atmel ATMega,
> though I'm not sure they're available with multiple UARTS - I've never
> looked.

The Mega-128 and several others have two usarts.


> Both the PIC18F and Atmega will go up to 64KB of code - that should be
> _plenty_.

You betcha.


> Both also come in DIP form.

The mega-8 then, or one of it's brothers.  The M128 is SMD only, but I
do them all the time by hand.


There are plenty of boards out there that will run either.

2007\10\26@204713 by Neil Cherry

picon face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> On 10/27/07, Brendan Gillatt <@spam@brendanKILLspamspambrendangillatt.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I'm in need of a micro-controller board that has 2 UARTS and a
>>> a few lines of digital I/O.
>> Up to here I would recommend a PIC18F* chip
>>
>>> I need to use tools such as SDCC or gcc.
>
> Why not MPLAB C18?

I don't know why not? :-) That's why I asked  here I knew I'd
get suggestions. What are the C18 limits, I'm not buying anything
other than the hardware.

Right now it looks like Digikey has a bunch of PROMs in the '256
(16x8) and '512 (32x8) in 28DIP so the s180 is still an option.
This might be the initial development system but I doubt it's
the long term solution.

--
Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry       KILLspamncherryKILLspamspamlinuxha.com
http://www.linuxha.com/                         Main site
http://linuxha.blogspot.com/                    My HA Blog
Author of:            Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

2007\10\26@210400 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 10/27/07, Neil Cherry <RemoveMEncherryTakeThisOuTspamcomcast.net> wrote:
> >>> I'm in need of a micro-controller board that has 2 UARTS and a
> >>> a few lines of digital I/O.
> >> Up to here I would recommend a PIC18F* chip
> >>
> >>> I need to use tools such as SDCC or gcc.
> >
> > Why not MPLAB C18?
>
> I don't know why not? :-) That's why I asked  here I knew I'd
> get suggestions. What are the C18 limits, I'm not buying anything
> other than the hardware.

I see. MPLAB C18 Student version is free. It does not limit
code size. However after 60 days, some of the optimization
options will be turned off.

>From http://www.microchip.com/c18

"Student Edition/Demo
The Student Edition is free! It has all the features of the full compiler
and libraries. After 60 days, the optimizations related to procedural
abstraction and to the extended instruction set of the newer PIC18XXXX
devices will be disabled. Code compiled after the expiration date will
function but may occupy more memory space."

The PA optimizer seems to be quite effective. I've never used the
extended instruction set so I do not quite know the effect.

But you might be able to get a free copy of full C18 from your
local FAEs. Or maybe you want to buy them from Microchip
China  for RMB300 or less than US$40. And you enjoy free upgrade
in C18's whole life span. I do not think they will sell it to you though...

Xiaofan

2007\10\26@211652 by Neil Cherry

picon face
David VanHorn wrote:
>> I would guess the only way to go from here is to use an Atmel ATMega,
>> though I'm not sure they're available with multiple UARTS - I've never
>> looked.
>
> The Mega-128 and several others have two usarts.

...

>> Both also come in DIP form.
>
> The mega-8 then, or one of it's brothers.  The M128 is SMD only, but I
> do them all the time by hand.
>
>
> There are plenty of boards out there that will run either.

This looks like a cheap ATMega128 solution:

       http://www.futurlec.com/ET-AVR_Stamp.shtml

ET-AVR Stamp Module - $19.90
ET-AVR ISP          - $ 4.90
ET-AVR Stamp Board  - $27.90
-----------------------------
Total               - $52.70 plus S&H

It takes forever to get here but I don't mind waiting. For the
article I won't need the stamp board but for fooling around with
it's not a bad deal.


--
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2007\10\27@100214 by Peter van Hoof

face picon face
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Neil Cherry TakeThisOuTncherryEraseMEspamspam_OUTcomcast.net

>I'm in need of a micro-controller board that has 2 UARTS and a
>a few lines of digital I/O. I need to use tools such as SDCC or
>gcc. The speeds are real slow but the code may be a bit heavy
>(X10 - Insteon translation). I'd like to keep the pin count down
>as I don't want to make this impossible for a novice to solder
>together. In fast a ready made board (like something from
>Olimex) would be perfect. Any suggestions?

>The end objective is this to go into an article for Circuit
>Cellar.

If you don't mind a new language (basic like) look at the propeller chip from parallax
http://www.parallax.com/propeller/index.asp
This is a real powerful chip eight 32-bit processors in one chip that
you can get in 40pin dip or 44pin QFP or QFN. It's fast enough to do multiple
software UARTS , generate video audio interface to keyboard and mouse etc

They sell a $25 (or 5 for $100) protoboard
www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=32212

you can make a simple rs232 cable
www.parallax.com/dl/docs/prod/prop/SerialtoPropeller.pdf
or use one of their USB to TTL devices (theirs or your own)

The only things I found wrong with this chip is the external serial EEPROM needed for
program storage because you are not able to copy/read protect it.


Peter van Hoof

2007\10\27@151030 by Victor Fraenckel

flavicon
face
Check out the ZX-24 at http://www.zbasic.net. Does all that the OP requested
and development software is FREE. Supports multiple software UARTS and
multiple I/O.

My 2 cents.

Vic
--

*____________________________________________________________________________________________*

*Victor Fraenckel
KC2GUI
victorf ATSIGN windreader DOT com**
*


2007\10\29@012113 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Peter van Hoof wrote:
> The only things I found wrong with this chip is the external serial EEPROM
> needed for
> program storage because you are not able to copy/read protect it.

Propeller does not have a code protect bit?

2007\10\29@045923 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>But you might be able to get a free copy of full C18 from
>your local FAEs. Or maybe you want to buy them from Microchip
>China  for RMB300 or less than US$40. And you enjoy free
>upgrade in C18's whole life span.

If one is prepared to look at the registry entries, and what the updates
expect in the registry, it is possible to get the student version to think
it is the full version and to become updateable. I don't know if it keeps
the optimizations though ...

2007\10\29@061234 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>A little background first, I play (hobby) with home
>automation.
> I run several Open Source projects (hence I'd like to keep
> this
> on the real cheap, ie spend nothing as possible on tools).
> I
> need to create a board that will convert X10 to Insteon (a
> translator of sorts). This is so I can replace a board
> called
> the PL-Link (ASCII to RS485 to X10 converter) in the HCS
> II.

I know you said you'd prefer hardware UARTs BUT if speed is
OK you can produce multiple ones in software with relatively
minor effort. A timer IRQ driven state machine that does NOT
use per UART data based interrupts, essentially either runs
fast enough or doesn't. ie is code dependant not data
dependant. There are a few data rate related parts - like eg
stacking data onto rotary stores, but that's not overly time
intensive.

A major issue is the maximum desired UART data rate. IRQ
rate needs to be several times higher than the minimum bit
time. eg at 9600 baud ~= 100 uS/bit you'd want an IRQ of say
25uS or less - even faster for more IRQ nibbles per data
bit. You then need to look at available IRQ clock cycles to
see if you can fit the code in.

One of the SX software peripherals implemented an N channel
(8 max?) UART AFAIR and you could get some general ideas
from there, even if the wholesale translation of the code is
banned by the NDA you sign before you can access it.

Or you could even use an SX and have the code already
written for you :-)

The task sounds easily enough doable by any number of the
AVR ATMegas - code space is probably the only issue you need
to check - and, of course, whether that variant was going to
be available this time next year :-(.


       Russell



2007\10\29@102820 by Peter van Hoof

face picon face
Vitaliy RemoveMEspamspamTakeThisOuTmaksimov.org wrote

>Peter van Hoof wrote:
>> The only things I found wrong with this chip is the external serial EEPROM
>> needed for
>> program storage because you are not able to copy/read protect it.

>Propeller does not have a code protect bit?

The Propeller does not have internal program EEPROM.

The way it starts is :
1 boot loader starts
2 boot loader checks if host is connected if so it identifies itself and
loads code from host to first Cog (processor) then executes code
3 if no host communication was detected the boot loader checks for existence
of external EEPROM  and loads 32k image to main ram and executes code
4 if no code is found in steps 2 or 3 the chip shuts down

This is annoying for commercial use there is no way the current code can be
protected on this otherwise very attractive microcontroller.

Peter van Hoof

2007\10\29@212205 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Peter van Hoof wrote:
> The Propeller does not have internal program EEPROM.
>
> The way it starts is :
> 1 boot loader starts
> 2 boot loader checks if host is connected if so it identifies itself and
> loads code from host to first Cog (processor) then executes code
> 3 if no host communication was detected the boot loader checks for
> existence
> of external EEPROM  and loads 32k image to main ram and executes code
> 4 if no code is found in steps 2 or 3 the chip shuts down
>
> This is annoying for commercial use there is no way the current code can
> be
> protected on this otherwise very attractive microcontroller.

I wonder if this was done intentionally, as a way to encourage open source
development? Eight years in the making, one would think that Parallax had
plenty of time to weigh the pros and cons.

Although the following article was written seemingly in response to someone
saying that the Propeller was not fit for commercial use:

http://www.parallax.com/propeller/wpw.asp

2007\10\30@190449 by Cristóvão Dalla Costa

picon face
On 10/29/07, Vitaliy <spamEraseMEspam.....maksimov.org> wrote:
>
> Peter van Hoof wrote:
> > The Propeller does not have internal program EEPROM.
> >
> > This is annoying for commercial use there is no way the current code can
> > be
> > protected on this otherwise very attractive microcontroller.
>
> I wonder if this was done intentionally, as a way to encourage open source
> development? Eight years in the making, one would think that Parallax had
> plenty of time to weigh the pros and cons.
>
> Although the following article was written seemingly in response to
> someone
> saying that the Propeller was not fit for commercial use:
>
> http://www.parallax.com/propeller/wpw.asp


Reading the article above it sounds as though they hand designed the whole
chip and didn't get to invent their own flash memory.

2007\10\30@204436 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Cristóvão Dalla Costa wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I don't know, maybe I'm too sensitive, but I get this strange taste in my
mouth when I come across self-exalting sagas written by small business
owners with big egos. "*I* ... designed, debugged, tuned, and tested the
Propeller. This project took eight years of *my* time. *I* allowed no
compromises."  :-[  Wow, I didn't know Parallax was a one-man operation.

A few years ago I had a personalities clash with a similar character. Alex
Dirks and his partner Mike Gebhard of Crustcrawler, Inc came to our
university to "sponsor" a senior project (i.e., get the students to write
free code for his product). He went on and on about how he started his
company, and how he worked hard to build his robotic arm, and how we should
be thankful that he is letting us work on his project. Now, it was obvious
that Mike wrote all the code, and that he shared the workload -- but Alex
did all the talking and made it sound like he was the only one doing the
work. Read the "about" section of their website if you think I'm
exaggerating:

http://www.crustcrawler.com/about.php

"I wanted", "I became disappointed", "I found", "I set out to develop", "I,
I, I..."  Of course, Alex and Chip are not unique -- I've personally
encountered a number of people over the years, who tend to exaggerate their
accomplishments and belittle (or ignore) the contributions of their
partners/teammates.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing bad about feeling proud of one's
accomplishments. But it's important to recognize the contributions of other
people, and remember to occasionally use the plural form of the pronoun.






2007\10\30@211045 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> ... came to our university to "sponsor" a senior project
+
> (i.e., get the students to write free code for his
> product).

While those two sometimes are well correlated there's
usually a large gap between them in practice and sponsorship
of a project ends up being a pretty philanthropic gesture.

The biggest gain, and a mutual one, is liable to be when a
team or team member relates so well to the task and does
such a good job that they end up being employed by the
company subsequently.


       Russell

2007\10\30@214003 by Cristóvão Dalla Costa

picon face
On 10/30/07, Vitaliy <RemoveMEspamEraseMEspamEraseMEmaksimov.org> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Hey, at least the Propeller guy uses the "we" particle. Being a small
business owner myself I tend to give credit to their claims. While I
certainly didn't create the automotive test equipment I currently sell
alone, all the creative effort was mine. So cut the guys some slack. They
probably went through hell to get their stuff working.

Intelligent and creative people are very expensive and small business owners
usually can't afford none other than themselves.

2007\10\30@215732 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Russell McMahon wrote:
>> ... came to our university to "sponsor" a senior project
> +
>> (i.e., get the students to write free code for his
>> product).
>
> While those two sometimes are well correlated there's
> usually a large gap between them in practice and sponsorship
> of a project ends up being a pretty philanthropic gesture.
>
> The biggest gain, and a mutual one, is liable to be when a
> team or team member relates so well to the task and does
> such a good job that they end up being employed by the
> company subsequently.

Russell, amen!

Our company's primary goal in sponsoring a student project is exactly
that -- we want to identify and hire the young talent, before they get
snatched up by Honeywell and Intel. This has a profound effect on the
expectations: we don't really care about the nature of the project, or even
the outcome. Students have the freedom to work on anything they want. We
just want to see who the smart ones are, and make them an offer they can't
refuse. :)

Unrealistic expectations (getting something for nothing) only lead to
frustration.


2007\10\30@221728 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Cristóvão Dalla Costa wrote:
> Hey, at least the Propeller guy uses the "we" particle.

Not in the opening paragraph he doesn't. :)

> Being a small
> business owner myself I tend to give credit to their claims. While I
> certainly didn't create the automotive test equipment I currently sell
> alone, all the creative effort was mine. So cut the guys some slack. They
> probably went through hell to get their stuff working.

I often wonder if "going through hell" is really worth it.

- Daddy, why were you never there when I was growing up?
- Sweety, you will understand when I show you this cool Propeller chip!

> Intelligent and creative people are very expensive and small business
> owners
> usually can't afford none other than themselves.

Hogwash. :) That's just an excuse that some small business owners use for
acting like jerks. And nobody wants to work for a jerk.

2007\10\31@053855 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> I don't know, maybe I'm too sensitive, but I get this strange taste
>> in my mouth when I come across self-exalting sagas written by small
>> business owners with big egos.
...
>
>Hey, at least the Propeller guy uses the "we" particle. Being a small
>business owner myself I tend to give credit to their claims. While I
>certainly didn't create the automotive test equipment I currently sell
>alone, all the creative effort was mine. So cut the guys some slack. They
>probably went through hell to get their stuff working.

Sure they did but ...

>Intelligent and creative people are very expensive and small business
>owners usually can't afford none other than themselves.

That doesn't mean that the plural tense should not be used. I would get 'bad
vibes' looking at a job with a small outfit where the interviewer kept using
'I', even if a one man band. Use of the 'royal We' is the correct form to
convey to people.

2007\10\31@090341 by Funny NYPD

picon face
>Wow, I didn't know Parallax was a one-man operation.
Is it true? Hard to believe. one-man operation, wow.

Funny

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2007\10\31@094227 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 10/31/07, Funny NYPD <RemoveMEfunnynypdTakeThisOuTspamspamyahoo.com> wrote:
> >Wow, I didn't know Parallax was a one-man operation.
> Is it true? Hard to believe. one-man operation, wow.
>

I do not think so. They seems to look for people.
www.parallax.com/html_pages/company/employment.asp
www.parallax.com/html_pages/company/contact/contact_us.asp
It is a bit difficult to have toll-free sales and technical support
with one person.

Xiaofan

2007\10\31@122540 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Funny NYPD wrote:
> >Wow, I didn't know Parallax was a one-man operation.
> Is it true? Hard to believe. one-man operation, wow.

No, of course they're not. I was being sarcastic. :)


2007\10\31@191729 by Cristóvão Dalla Costa

picon face
On 10/30/07, Vitaliy <EraseMEspamspamspamspamBeGonemaksimov.org> wrote:
>
> Cristóvão Dalla Costa wrote:
> > Being a small
> > business owner myself I tend to give credit to their claims. While I
> > certainly didn't create the automotive test equipment I currently sell
> > alone, all the creative effort was mine. So cut the guys some slack.
> They
> > probably went through hell to get their stuff working.
>
> I often wonder if "going through hell" is really worth it.
>
> - Daddy, why were you never there when I was growing up?
> - Sweety, you will understand when I show you this cool Propeller chip!


Well, in my case, I have to say yes, since I'm 28 and have no kids, and got
to spend the years after college in a constructive way rather than wasting
them unemployed or in a crappy job. For a father with young children, I'd
have to agree and say probably not.


'[EE] uController recommendation please'
2007\11\01@083402 by Walter Banks
picon face


Funny NYPD wrote:

> >Wow, I didn't know Parallax was a one-man operation.
> Is it true? Hard to believe. one-man operation, wow.
>
> Funny

I have known Chip for about 20 years. He is creative,
intellectually honest and very hard working. Intense
technical conversations over dinner.

As company Parallax has a kind of niche in this
industry and over the years has developed
well implemented innovative products, many of
them very low cost.

w..








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