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'[EE] controlling optoisolator in light dimmer'
2004\09\15@080930 by Aadu Adok

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hi guys,

I'm integrating light dimmer into my project. I wanted to ask you if
there is any difference (active low/high) how to control optoisolator in
front of triac?

My current algo is (using active HIGH):

* detect zero-cross in INTF.
* on zero-cross, turn off optoisolator led.
* after zero-cross, in timer interrupt, turn optoisolator led back on
during 10ms (50hz AC). this fires triac.

When I fire triac after 9ms (low light) then there is some annoying lamp
flickering goin on. What could cause this??

Yet another question - is it better to drive optoisolator with single
pulse (say 10us) instead of holding it high until next zero-cross?

thanks!

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2004\09\15@104017 by Harold Hallikainen

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The shoebox dimmer (http://www.dovesystems.com/BuildPage.php?page=shoebox)
is 18f452 based. It's similar to what you propose. Four channels are
dimmed using the capture/compare register (in compare mode). At zero
cross, all triacs are turned off unless a channel is on full. The timer is
reset. The brightest channel is determined and its timer click number is
put in the compare register. When the compare register generates an
interrupt, that output plus any output whose click count is within 256
counts of the current count are turned on. This provision keeps us from
missing channels where the brightnesses are nearly equal. This results in
a very slight interaction between channels that are nearly equal in level.
You can see it on a scope as channels are adjusted, but it cannot be seen
on the lights.

I leave the opto on for the remainder of the half cycle once it is fired
instead of hitting it with a short pulse.

In this particular product, the outputs driving the optos are active low.
The board has a header that can drive a standard quad solid state relay.
Those generally have the high side of the control input tied together
making the control inputs active low. Other than this consideration, I do
not believe it makes any difference as to whether the drive to your optos
are active high or active low.

Good luck!

Harold
Engineering - Dove Systems


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2004\09\15@151929 by Hopkins

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At low light level setting you may need to scope the pulses to check
that they are always there i.e. due to timing you may be leaving the
firing pulse to late and the lamp can not generate enough light.

Imao it does not matter if you start with a pulse or leave the isolator
on.

_______________________________________
Roy
Tauranga
New Zealand
_______________________________________


I'm integrating light dimmer into my project. I wanted to ask you if
there is any difference (active low/high) how to control optoisolator in
front of triac?

My current algo is (using active HIGH):

* detect zero-cross in INTF.
* on zero-cross, turn off optoisolator led.
* after zero-cross, in timer interrupt, turn optoisolator led back on
during 10ms (50hz AC). this fires triac.

When I fire triac after 9ms (low light) then there is some annoying lamp
flickering goin on. What could cause this??

Yet another question - is it better to drive optoisolator with single
pulse (say 10us) instead of holding it high until next zero-cross?

thanks!


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2004\09\15@161731 by Carlos A. Marcano V.

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>Yet another question - is it better to drive optoisolator with single
>pulse (say 10us) instead of holding it high until next zero-cross?

It is better to use a 20Khz train of pulses.


Regards,

*Carlos Marcano*
-Guri, Venezuela-
                       

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2004\09\15@181027 by Matthew Miller

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Hi Carlos,

On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 04:17:30PM -0400, Carlos A. Marcano V. wrote:
>
> >Yet another question - is it better to drive optoisolator with single
> >pulse (say 10us) instead of holding it high until next zero-cross?
>
>  It is better to use a 20Khz train of pulses.

I don't have much experence with the type of circuit being discussed, but I'm
wondering why a 20kHz pulse train is better. Just looking for an
explaination...

Thanks, Matthew.

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2004\09\15@202217 by Carlos Marcano

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Matthew wrote:

>
> I don't have much experence with the type of circuit being
> discussed, but I'm
> wondering why a 20kHz pulse train is better. Just looking for an
> explaination...

Hi, Matthew:

 That is the spirit! It is always better to know how things work than just
know they work.
 Right now (8:30 pm here in Venezuela) I am buried in lots of work  - yes,
even at home :( - but I promise I will answer back tomorrow as fast as I
can.

Regards,

*Carlos Marcano*
-Guri, Venezuela-

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2004\09\16@072603 by Matthew Miller

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On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 08:52:59PM -0400, Carlos Marcano wrote:
>
>   That is the spirit! It is always better to know how things work than just
> know they work.
>   Right now (8:30 pm here in Venezuela) I am buried in lots of work  - yes,
> even at home :( - but I promise I will answer back tomorrow as fast as I
> can.

OK, thanks Carlos!

Matthew

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2004\09\16@082522 by Carlos A. Marcano V.

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Hi, Matt.

On the pulse train topic first things first. Quoting National
Semiconductor COP, Note 6: "It is possible to trigger a triac with a steady
state logic level. This is accomplished by allowing the triac gate to sink
or source current during the desired on-time. When utilizing this method it
becomes easier to trigger the triac and leave it on for many cycles without
having to execute code to retrigger. This approach is advantageous when the
triac must be fired is for relatively long periods and conduction angle
firing is not desired, thus more time is available to accomplish auxiliary
tasks."  This is something you may wish to do when you are implementing
ON/OFF control on the triac, i.e. M cycles ON , N cycles OFF. This is not
the usual case for lamp dimming where the angle firing approach is the one
to go to achieve the goal of controlling the mean voltage to the lamp. This leads us to other thing: In lots of power converters de period of
conduction of the thyristor depends on the power factor of the load,
meaning that the begining of the of the conduction might not be well
defined. This means that its usually needed to trigger the triac in a
continuos way but this raises the loses on the thyristor. For pure
resistive loads this is not an issue, but ¿where do you find a pure
resistive load?. I, as a rule of thumb, prefer to use a  train pulse to
avoid this problems. What I do is to make a logical operation AND between
the firing pulses from the uC with a 20 KHz square wave and voila! For some
applications this might be overkill but if you begin to find weird problems
this could help a lot.

Hope I did´n´t confuse more!

Regards,
*Carlos Marcano*
-Guri, Venezuela-

P.S: Sorry for my english!

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2004\09\16@190913 by Matthew Miller

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On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 08:25:21AM -0400, Carlos A. Marcano V. wrote:
>
> Hope I didn't confuse more!

Nope, that was a good explaination. Thanks!

Matthew.

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