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'[EE] component ID help needed'
2011\02\01@002141 by Dr Skip

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part 1 1800 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset="utf-8" (decoded base64)



I need some help identifying a component in the attached pic (size and
quality reduced to list-acceptable numbers, so hopefully still clear
enough). I don't usually use components this small, and we won't even
go into my eyesight... ;)

This is a key fob camera/recorder. It's been flaky since purchase and
while it had random 'bad' periods, it's unresponsive now, so I opened it
up. Under the battery is a large smd microcontroller. Upper left is a
mini usb and upper right is an micro SD card slot.

Funny thing is, there is an unattached component lying on top
of the SD card holder (see pic). It's a long thin 'can' with 2 leads.
Pulling the battery back, I see an outline of the same shape screened
onto the pcb, with 2 pads that match this escapee component perfectly.
[see the area between usb and SD card]
However, there are only smudged minimal markings on the component (and
very, very tiny at that), and none other on the pcb.

I can probably solder it in place, maybe, with some luck that my hand
holds steady enough. Big solder-glob potential I think... My guess is
it's a crystal or a cap. Can anyone confirm by sight and also let me
know if there might be a polarization issue, or can I put it in either
way? IIRC, a crystal won't care, but are there polarized caps this small
these days?

The leads bend toward one direction, but I'm not sure if that's because
they were pre-formed and it never got soldered, or it bent backward
after soldering and broke loose and flipped over prior to case closure,
bending the leads the other way. Each way would cause the leads to bend
opposite from the other, so if it was a polarized component, I stand a
chance of flipping it wrongly.

Thanks in advance.

-Skip


part 2 23673 bytes content-type:image/jpeg; name="keyfob3.JPG" (decode)


part 3 181 bytes content-type:text/plain; name="ATT00001.txt"
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2011\02\01@003315 by Mark Rages

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On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:21 PM, Dr Skip <spam_OUTdrskipTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

That's a 32.768 kHz watch crystal.  No polarity, but somewhat
vibration sensitive.  Still, it will probably work when you solder it
back.

Put a big glob of glue on it.  It's a bad design to have a part that
big mounted without mechanical support.

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
-- Mark Rages, Engineer
Midwest Telecine LLC
.....markragesKILLspamspam@spam@midwesttelecine.co

2011\02\01@003421 by Nathan Nottingham

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On Jan 31, 2011, at 22:21 PM, Dr Skip wrote:
>
> I need some help identifying a component in the attached pic (size and
> quality reduced to list-acceptable numbers, so hopefully still clear
> enough). I don't usually use components this small, and we won't even
> go into my eyesight... ;)
> <snip>

Silkscreen marking very much looks like a tiny can crystal.  In the photo, the battery is covering most components, but if there are no other crystals/oscs on the board, I would think it safe to assume your mystery part is the crystal.  You should be free to solder without polarity concerns.  Best of luck.

- Nat

2011\02\01@003637 by Matt Callow

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On 1 February 2011 16:21, Dr Skip <drskipspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
>
> I can probably solder it in place, maybe, with some luck that my hand
> holds steady enough. Big solder-glob potential I think... My guess is
> it's a crystal or a cap. Can anyone confirm by sight and also let me
> know if there might be a polarization issue, or can I put it in either
> way? IIRC, a crystal won't care, but are there polarized caps this small
> these days?
>

It looks very much like a crystal to me. I've seen them break off before.
Since I assume the device is currently broken, I would solder it in
the most obvious way round (i.e. the way the leads are currently
bent).
If is doesn't work, try it the other was round. What have you got to loose?
If it does work, maybe add some glue/double sided tape underneath the
component to hold it in place and reduce the strain on the leads.

Mat

2011\02\01@004024 by PICdude

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Looks like a crystal, but you should be able to follow traces from  this to the processor and see what pins it goes to.

Cheers,
-Neil.


Quoting Dr Skip <.....drskipKILLspamspam.....gmail.com>:

{Quote hidden}

2011\02\01@012426 by Richard Prosser

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On 1 February 2011 05:33, Mark Rages <EraseMEmarkragesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2011\02\01@013132 by Mark Rages

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On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Richard Prosser <KILLspamrhprosserKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's almost certainly a crystal.
> The frequency could be almost anything up to 24MHz or so.  I have a
> flash drive with a 12MHz crystal that's almost identical.

True.  The great majority of these that I've seen have been 32.768,
but it could be any frequency.

Regards
Mark
-- Mark Rages, Engineer
Midwest Telecine LLC
RemoveMEmarkragesTakeThisOuTspammidwesttelecine.com

2011\02\01@040534 by IVP

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> there is an unattached component

You might want to have a look at the rest of the board. I've had
some repairs lately that were due to poor soldering at the factory.
I don't know if they're trying to save time/money/power or what
but some bonds I've seen are very weak. For example an SMT
earphone socket came straight off the board on the first insertion
of a plug and switches have come loose on other small devices

Jo

2011\02\01@040823 by Picbits Sales

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For reference Skip - these are available from Ebay for around £7 (~$12)
brand new and delivered for the whole camera/keyring.

I've got a couple of them and have mounted magnets on the back so I can
stick them on various parts of my car and see whats going on when I'm
driving (mechanically)

If you're feeling really bored and want to see a 8 minutes of a wheel going
round - here is one of my videos :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YMVoQbS9lQ

Dom

{Original Message removed}

2011\02\01@043132 by Michael Watterson

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On 01/02/2011 05:21, Dr Skip wrote:
> My guess is
> it's a crystal or a cap. Can anyone confirm by sight and also let me
> know if there might be a polarization issue, or can I put it in either
> way? IIRC, a crystal won't care, but are there polarized caps this small
> these days?
Looks like crystal.

Never seen a cap like that.

Identifying a 0.5uF and higher capacitor ...
If you have an analogue meter on Ohms an electrolytic cap will give needle a quick dip from Infinity and a slightly bigger kick on reversing at once.
With digital meter charge it with ohms or diode tester and disconnect, quickly connect then to volts, you should see > 0.5V
If polarised the leakage is higher in reverse polarity, usually, on Ohms.

2011\02\01@045914 by alan.b.pearce

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> > That's a 32.768 kHz watch crystal.  No polarity, but somewhat
> > vibration sensitive.  Still, it will probably work when you solder it
> > back.
> >
> > Put a big glob of glue on it.  It's a bad design to have a part that
> > big mounted without mechanical support.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mark
>
> It's almost certainly a crystal.
> The frequency could be almost anything up to 24MHz or so.  I have a
> flash drive with a 12MHz crystal that's almost identical.
>
> In your case if you can't read the markings, you may be able to
> measure the frequency using a simple oscillator circuit  and scope
> etc. Or you could just solder it back in place and scope that or see
> if it works. A dab of glue should stop it getting loose again.

Yes, I agree, I doubt it is a 32kHz, more likely to be in the MHz range, to suit the USB connection, so 6, 8, 12 or 24MHz seem to be the favourites.
-- Scanned by iCritical.

2011\02\01@053520 by Oli Glaser

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On 01/02/2011 09:58, spamBeGonealan.b.pearcespamBeGonespamstfc.ac.uk wrote:
>>> That's a 32.768 kHz watch crystal.  No polarity, but somewhat
>>> vibration sensitive.  Still, it will probably work when you solder it
>>> back.
>>>
>>> Put a big glob of glue on it.  It's a bad design to have a part that
>>> big mounted without mechanical support.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mark
>> It's almost certainly a crystal.
>> The frequency could be almost anything up to 24MHz or so.  I have a
>> flash drive with a 12MHz crystal that's almost identical.
>>
>> In your case if you can't read the markings, you may be able to
>> measure the frequency using a simple oscillator circuit  and scope
>> etc. Or you could just solder it back in place and scope that or see
>> if it works. A dab of glue should stop it getting loose again.
> Yes, I agree, I doubt it is a 32kHz, more likely to be in the MHz range, to suit the USB connection, so 6, 8, 12 or 24MHz seem to be the favourites.

Me too, I'm 99.9% sure it's a crystal (tuning fork type IIRC) - I have a few here of the 32.768kHz variety, just got a couple (of different part numbers) out to look at - one case is completely blank, and the other has 32 768 in tiny black numbers visible under a loupe.
I agree it's more likely a speed to suit the USB, though it's possible it could be an RTC/Timer peripheral crystal if there is something else on the board providing the USB clock.
I would go ahead and solder it back in (should be easy enough, just add a bit of flux and you could probably do both pads at once, just tin the tip of iron a little first, rather than adding solder to the joint - like you would for drag soldering), think it's a pretty safe bet it will be fine (though if you want to be extra cautious you could check it as suggested)

2011\02\01@092317 by Carey Fisher

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> Funny thing is, there is an unattached component lying on top
> of the SD card holder (see pic). It's a long thin 'can' with 2 leads.
> Pulling the battery back, I see an outline of the same shape screened
> onto the pcb, with 2 pads that match this escapee component perfectly.
> [see the area between usb and SD card]
> However, there are only smudged minimal markings on the component (and
> very, very tiny at that), and none other on the pcb.
>


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