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'[EE] certifications - NRTL, ETL, UL, etc'
2008\07\02@124042 by alan smith

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Correct me if I am wrong...the standard in the states was, and for all intents and purposes, UL.  However, if I recall from a few years ago when I was more involved with certifications, NRTL became the defacto standard when the industry was deregulated thus TUV could enter into the fray and provide the certs.  I have been hearing about ETL now, and from what I can find its another testing body, rather than standard like TUV.  However when we tested using TUV, we recieved the NRTL marks.  So is ETL much the same? For a product initially being marketed in the states, we should be able to get by with a CE and NRTL mark?  Just wondering what exacly ETL covers.


     

2008\07\02@125958 by William Bross

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alan smith wrote:

>Correct me if I am wrong...the standard in the states was, and for all intents and purposes, UL.  However, if I recall from a few years ago when I was more involved with certifications, NRTL became the defacto standard when the industry was deregulated thus TUV could enter into the fray and provide the certs.  I have been hearing about ETL now, and from what I can find its another testing body, rather than standard like TUV.  However when we tested using TUV, we recieved the NRTL marks.  So is ETL much the same? For a product initially being marketed in the states, we should be able to get by with a CE and NRTL mark?  Just wondering what exacly ETL covers.
>
>
>      
>  
>
Alan,

check here for ETL's view on all this:

<http://www.intertek-etlsemko.com/portal/page/cust_portal/ITK_PGR/ABOUT_INTERTEK_ETL_PG/GLOBAL_CERTS_MARKS_PG/ETL_LISTED_GC_PG/ETL_FAQ>

Link is long so beware of it wrapping around....

Bill

2008\07\02@170853 by Paul Hutchinson

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu On Behalf Of alan smith
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 12:40 PM
>
> Correct me if I am wrong...the standard in the states was, and
> for all intents and purposes, UL.  However, if I recall from a
> few years ago when I was more involved with certifications, NRTL
> became the defacto standard when the industry was deregulated

Deregulated isn't the appropriate term here because no regulations were
removed. OSHA setup the NRTL program (it's not a company or federal agency
it's just an OSHA program) to certify other companies to compete with UL for
OSHA mandated safety testing.
http://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/

OSHA would have done this long ago but until recently other companies didn't
feel it would be profitable trying to compete with UL. With the coming of so
many CE regulations, new and existing test labs geared up to meet the demand
for CE testing. These labs decided that since they are setup for CE tests it
would be profitable to compete with UL so they asked OSHA to setup the NRTL
program.

> thus TUV could enter into the fray and provide the certs.  I have
> been hearing about ETL now, and from what I can find its another
> testing body, rather than standard like TUV.  However when we
> tested using TUV, we recieved the NRTL marks.  So is ETL much the
> same?

You can now use UL, ETL, CSL, TUV, CSA, FM and a bunch of other companies
marks to meet OSHA requirements. This OSHA page shows all of the approved
marks:
http://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/nrtlmrk.html.

> For a product initially being marketed in the states, we
> should be able to get by with a CE and NRTL mark?  Just wondering
> what exacly ETL covers.

For RF and digital devices CE regulations and marks have no legal standing
in the USA. For devices covered by FCC rules you must use FCC rules, CE
regulations while similar are not the same. Behringer USA found this out
recently when they claimed there digital devices had CE marks so they where
OK to sell in the USA. The FCC found they did not meet the rules and fined
them 1 million dollars for failure to comply.

For US distribution the only safety tests you need to comply with are from
OSHA, DOT, FAA, etc. Those tests only apply if your product falls under the
jurisdiction of one of those agencies. If the product is a household
consumer electronic device there are usually no government mandated safety
tests. If you have a liability insurance provider they might require safety
testing as part of the terms of your liability insurance policy.

Paul Hutch

2008\07\02@215318 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:08 AM, Paul Hutchinson
<.....paullhutchinsonKILLspamspam@spam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Deregulated isn't the appropriate term here because no regulations were
> removed. OSHA setup the NRTL program (it's not a company or federal agency
> it's just an OSHA program) to certify other companies to compete with UL for
> OSHA mandated safety testing.
> http://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/
>
> You can now use UL, ETL, CSL, TUV, CSA, FM and a bunch of other companies
> marks to meet OSHA requirements. This OSHA page shows all of the approved
> marks:
> http://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/nrtlmrk.html.
>

Nice summary.

In this kind of safety system, you have the following aspects.
1. Model codes (law, rules, regulations, etc): NFPA, NEC (national
electric codes), etc in US, CECI in Canada
2. Enforcement Authority (AHJs -- authority having jurisdiction):
OSHA, ANSI, etc in US, SCC in Canada
3. Product standard: UL, CAN/CSA, IEC, etc
4. Conformity assessment: evidence to show compliance, often need
third party certification. UL/TUV/etc are certification agencies which
are appointed by the AHJs to carry out the certifications. Usually
the certification agencies have labs accredited by an recognized
accreditation body. A certification agency can not be a accreditation
body at the same time.

Once you understand this system, you will know that UL is just
a dominate player in the certification market. It is more than
a certification agency in that it also writes standards which are
often adopted by ANSI as the American National Standard.

Xiaofan

2008\07\03@085623 by alan smith

picon face
Excellent information, I appreciate it.  Just in the process of trying to determine if we get a battery certified by itself, or as part of the product.  And...who to use for the cert testings.


--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Xiaofan Chen <xiaofancspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

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