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'[EE] Xtal Gyroscopes - ideas?'
2005\10\30@150327 by Debbie

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PICers - I got my hands on a model aeroplane kit a while back. It's your basic
soaring glider with electric motor driving the propellor + radio control + GWS
servos to operate the elevators. There's plenty of room inside for "extras" ...
hah! so can't resist a bit of experimentation. :) Would like to try my hand at
making the thing sort of autonomous and I guess the 1st item would be to fit a
gyrostabiliser so it can fly straight without the operator's help.

I've checked out the Futaba xtal gyro units - they look encouraging. What other
types/brand names would people recommend? Price is an issue - gotta be
reasonably cheap.

Thankz for advice - Debbie


               
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2005\10\30@192743 by John Ferrell

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Look at http://www.fmadirect.com
They have several products in that area. Their "co-pilot" uses IR sensors to
find the horzon and level up the wings. Most projects like you are
considering use GPS to stay on course.

I think you will find it a challenge to build such a project at an
acceptable cost without going to a larger model. The weight builds up fast.

I have a fair amount of RC airplane experience but most of my current
activity is with two meter aircraft. I maintain the website at
http://www.nsrca.org/d2/d2nsrca/D2Homepage.htm
Nothing fancy, just communications...

Welcome to the world of RC, it can be habit forming!
John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2005\10\30@195641 by Windman

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Might want to take a look at http://www.sparkfun.com at their inertial measuring
devices ready to go. Solid state gyros and solid state accelerometers.
Should be able to brew something interesting from them.

HTH

Vic
___________________________________________________

Vic Fraenckel
KC2GUI
victorf AT windreader DOT com

2005\10\30@200226 by Marc Nicholas

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I concur...why look at a gyro when you can go MEMS? The weight and power
savings along make them a winner.

-marc

On 10/30/05, Windman <spam_OUTvictorfTakeThisOuTspamwindreader.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2005\10\31@123644 by Peter

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Futaba, Tokin and Murata all make piezo gyros of the kind you have in
mind. A simple autopilot can be built without using a computer, by just
using the gyro signal to change the duty cycle of a PWM signal which
directly drives a usual model servo. But since the gyro output is rate
proportional a proper heading or attitude hold cannot be maintained.
Iow, look for an electrolytic level sensor, a hall compass, and a
barometric sensor as a better starting point for an autopilot.

Peter

2005\10\31@141138 by Debbie

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--- Peter <.....plpKILLspamspam@spam@actcom.co.il> wrote:

>
> Futaba, Tokin and Murata all make piezo gyros of the kind you have in
> mind. A simple autopilot can be built without using a computer, by just
> using the gyro signal to change the duty cycle of a PWM signal which
> directly drives a usual model servo. But since the gyro output is rate
> proportional a proper heading or attitude hold cannot be maintained.
> Iow, look for an electrolytic level sensor, a hall compass, and a
> barometric sensor as a better starting point for an autopilot.
>
> Peter
> --

Hey Peter, but surely you're not suggesting <gasp!> ... a project //without// a
PIC?? :))
Actually, thankz for the tips, guys. Hmmm. The gizmos @ http://www.sparkfun.com look
//very// interesting.
Debbie


               
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2005\10\31@143243 by James Humes

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It was listed in [EE], so call "regular" circuits fair game:) I'd put a PIC
in the mix given by Peter. I've heard of using resistive photocells for
horizon detectors before, which would keep the pitch stable and then use a
tilt sensor of some kind on the roll axis... all read in by the PIC which
can make its decisions and output servo signals.
James

On 10/31/05, Debbie <cyberia429-piclistspamKILLspamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2005\10\31@150648 by Debbie

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--- James Humes <EraseMEjames.humesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:

> It was listed in [EE], so call "regular" circuits fair game:) I'd put a PIC
> in the mix given by Peter. I've heard of using resistive photocells for
> horizon detectors before, which would keep the pitch stable and then use a
> tilt sensor of some kind on the roll axis... all read in by the PIC which
> can make its decisions and output servo signals.
>  James

Sounds good to me. I had a look @ Tokin's offerings. Check out their 3D motion
sensor:-

www.nec-tokin.com/english/product/3d/index.html
Crikey! It's a 3-in-one mini gizmo and even has USB!
Debbie




               
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2005\10\31@162348 by Robert Rolf

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Debbie wrote:
> --- James Humes <james.humesspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>It was listed in [EE], so call "regular" circuits fair game:) I'd put a PIC
>>in the mix given by Peter. I've heard of using resistive photocells for
>>horizon detectors before, which would keep the pitch stable and then use a
>>tilt sensor of some kind on the roll axis... all read in by the PIC which
>>can make its decisions and output servo signals.
>> James
>
>
> Sounds good to me. I had a look @ Tokin's offerings. Check out their 3D motion
> sensor:-
>
> www.nec-tokin.com/english/product/3d/index.html
> Crikey! It's a 3-in-one mini gizmo and even has USB!
> Debbie


Interesting that it does NOT have 'mouse mode' for newer O/Ss.
Only 98/ME. I doubt that this product ever made it to market.

Does anyone remember the old Gyropoint mouse?. You could lift
it off your desk and still use it to point. Used a Murata rate
gyro.
But I could buy a mouse with two sensor in it cheaper
than I could get Murata's sensor in OEM research quantities, so there
were a lot of dead rodents in our lab.

Yet the gyropoint never caught on.

Does anyone have a source for small quantities of these units?

Robert


2005\10\31@163027 by Mchipguru

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There was an article using electrostatic charge to sense attitude several years agi in Flying Models magazine. As I remember it used radioactive sources from smoke detectors and analog electronics to do the job.

Team 190 of First Robotics used a Piezo Gyro and a 3 axis acelerometer to do full inertial navigation of the robot during autonomous mode and to add features like heading hold when controlled remotely.
Larry Nelson Sr.

{Quote hidden}

2005\10\31@163853 by Josh Koffman

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On 10/31/05, Debbie <TakeThisOuTcyberia429-piclistEraseMEspamspam_OUTyahoo.com.au> wrote:
> Sounds good to me. I had a look @ Tokin's offerings. Check out their 3D motion
> sensor:-
>
> www.nec-tokin.com/english/product/3d/index.html
> Crikey! It's a 3-in-one mini gizmo and even has USB!

Wow that is kind of cute. Unfortunately, the USB connection is a bit
of a downer. I don't think Implementing a USB host in a PIC would be
that fun of a project. Perhaps it wouldn't be that bad if it was
specifically tailored to talk only to a specific slave device.

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2005\10\31@164254 by James Humes

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Debbie,
 That looks like a pretty nice IMU in that it takes care of some of the
sticking points of IMU design for you, but I'm not sure if its really what
you'd want for an autonomous aerial vehicle. Go to
http://www.analog.com<http://www.analog.com>and you can get samples of their
two axis accel.'s and I think even of their
3 axis gyro. These are all QFN (or similar) surface mount parts, so
depending on how you feel about them, you can go to a site (like
http://www.sparkfun.com <http://www.sparkfun.com> ) and get them already mounted on
breakout boards. If you'd like to go with a more complete unit, (someone
said this above I think) they have a system that has an accel. on each axis
and a gyro on each axis. They also have some comm. equipment that might be
useful as you get into the project.
 If your only goal is to measure the pitch and roll of the plane, then a
single 2 axis accel. from analog devices could meet your needs. They're very
easy to use.
James

On 10/31/05, Robert Rolf <RemoveMERobert.RolfspamTakeThisOuTualberta.ca> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2005\10\31@164327 by James Humes

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Oh yeah, you could even use it sans the PIC if you're feeling wacky.

On 10/31/05, James Humes <EraseMEjames.humesspamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > --

2005\10\31@171435 by gacrowell

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspamspammit.edu
> [EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspamspamspamBeGonemit.edu] On Behalf Of RemoveMEmchipguruKILLspamspamcharter.net
> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 2:30 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: Re: [EE] Xtal Gyroscopes - ideas?
>
> There was an article using electrostatic charge to sense
> attitude several years agi in Flying Models magazine. As I
> remember it used radioactive sources from smoke detectors and
> analog electronics to do the job.

I remember that, would have been around '68-69

GC

2005\10\31@230604 by R. I. Nelson

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gacrowellSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmicron.com wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I still have the magazine if any one is interested.  They actually used
the radioactive source from a brush you used to remove dust from
records.  I don't think smoke detectors were that available at that time.



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tel;work:1-(920)-229-7152
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2005\10\31@232723 by David Van Horn

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> I still have the magazine if any one is interested.  They actually
used
> the radioactive source from a brush you used to remove dust from
> records.  I don't think smoke detectors were that available at that
time.

Were they getting anything more than air density?

That would have been polonium in the record dusters, relatively hot
alpha source. Short half-life.  The AM241 in smoke detectors is pretty
long lived.




'[EE] Xtal Gyroscopes - ideas?'
2005\11\01@130259 by Peter
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On Tue, 1 Nov 2005, Debbie wrote:

> Hey Peter, but surely you're not suggesting <gasp!> ... a project //without// a
> PIC?? :))

Of course not. You need a PIC to blink the blue led. That was so obvious
I did not even mention it.

Peter

2005\11\01@133110 by Debbie

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--- Peter <spamBeGoneplpspamKILLspamactcom.co.il> wrote:

>
> On Tue, 1 Nov 2005, Debbie wrote:
>
> > Hey Peter, but surely you're not suggesting <gasp!> ... a project
> //without// a
> > PIC?? :))
>
> Of course not. You need a PIC to blink the blue led. That was so obvious
> I did not even mention it.
>
> Peter
Aah yes, of course! I see it now. I'd use a 16F877 to drive a relay to apply
power to an LM555 in astable mode to blink the LED ...  ;)
Debbie


               
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2005\11\02@192727 by Juan Cubillo

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> Aah yes, of course! I see it now. I'd use a 16F877 to drive a relay to
apply
> power to an LM555 in astable mode to blink the LED ...  ;)
> Debbie

You should add a transistor between the PIC and the relay!!!
:)
Juan Cubillo

"Iàtàtà

2005\11\03@041113 by Debbie

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--- Juan Cubillo <.....jacubillorospam_OUTspamcostarricense.cr> wrote:

> > Aah yes, of course! I see it now. I'd use a 16F877 to drive a relay to
> apply
> > power to an LM555 in astable mode to blink the LED ...  ;)
> > Debbie
>
> You should add a transistor between the PIC and the relay!!!
> :)
> Juan Cubillo

Nah, how 'bout an opto-coupler so you could have a dual supply - 5V for the
PIC, 12V for the relay & a whopping battery, the weight to be compensated by an
He balloon to lift the aeroplane?  :))
Debbie


               
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2005\11\08@073727 by Alan B. Pearce

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Boy it sure takes a while to catch up when one has been away for a week ...

> On Tue, 1 Nov 2005, Debbie wrote:
>
> > Hey Peter, but surely you're not suggesting <gasp!> ... a project
> //without// a
> > PIC?? :))
>
> Of course not. You need a PIC to blink the blue led. That was so obvious
> I did not even mention it.

Actually I thought it was going in some form of aeroplane, so she really
needs a red one on one wing tip, and a green one on the other ...

Then when it tilts the nose toward the ground there is a white one for the
landing lights ...

Now that has taken all the pins of a 10F device ...

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