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'[EE] X10 (was: carrier current signal injection)'
2005\11\28@125116 by Danny Sauer

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John wrote regarding 'Re: [EE] carrier current signal injection' on Mon, Nov 28 at 06:38:
> This is very timely as to where I am working at the moment. I am in the
> process of giving upon my current X10 installation. I am fed up with false
> turn on/off problems. I am replacing the computer controlled functions with
> fixed timers. There are a couple of instances where I will continue to use
[...]

Just out of curiosity, have you tried the various filters offered by
places like SmartHome.com, etc for blocking out devices that may
generate false internal (like fridge compressor motors, etc) and
external (neighbors using same house code) signals?  I had a problem
with a couple of my lights shutting off by themselves sometimes -
which was quite disturbing as I lived alone at the time - until I got
a new refridgerator.  It seems like doing something to clean up the
power to your house would do nothing but good things for other
frequency-sensitive devices which might be in the house regardless. :)
It may well be worth noting that I mostly had problems with the Radio
Shack controllers - some of the more expensive light controllers
didn't have the problem, even though they were on the same phase.

It's amusing - I replaced all of my manual timers with a "firecracker"
interface on a linux PC and X10 controls at each device.  I found that
tended to let me give my house a more "lived-in" look when I'm on
vacation.  Add in an IR controller to turn the TV on and off in the
evening, and I feel pretty safe leaving home...

--Danny

2005\11\28@130913 by Nicholas Robinson

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You're never alone with a refridgerator...

On Monday 28 November 2005 17:51, Danny Sauer wrote:
> I had a problem
> with a couple of my lights shutting off by themselves sometimes -
> which was quite disturbing as I lived alone at the time - until I got
> a new refridgerator.

--

Fight Prejudice - Fight the Ban (see http://www.countrysidealliance.org)

2005\11\28@135052 by Harold Hallikainen

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> You're never alone with a refridgerator...
>
> On Monday 28 November 2005 17:51, Danny Sauer wrote:
>> I had a problem
>> with a couple of my lights shutting off by themselves sometimes -
>> which was quite disturbing as I lived alone at the time - until I got
>> a new refridgerator.
>
> --

Reminds me of maybe 20 years ago when a neighbor got an ultrasonic bug
repeller. They had to take it back because it took over control of their
(old) television.

Harold

--
FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com

2005\11\28@141146 by Bob Blick

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Speaking of X10, what value capacitor is typically used to couple the two
sides of a 220V line together? My house is quite resistant to X10 signals
except on the same outlet, which makes it not very useful as a remote
control.

I figure I can put the capacitor inside my 220V clothes dryer so it's
relatively safe and not in the breaker panel.

Cheerful regards,

Bob




2005\11\28@142540 by John Ferrell

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I only used products from Radio Shack and from X10.com. I believe they
really should work as advertised. They don't. Given the price that SmartHome
and Levitron want for simple parts, I don't see much point in throwing more
money into the project just to see if they have done any better. I have been
fiddling with this for several years (I recall the patch for Y2K) and it has
mostly been an occasional thing. I will be replacing the switches on the
garage coach lamps with a mechanical timer. The outside floods will return
to ordinary wall switches. I will keep the appliance module in the garden
shed, it has always worked any way.

The scope interface in the App note is where one should start. It tells a
lot.

I have lots of electronics in the house. I don't think it unreasonable to
expect the off the shelf X10 stuff to co-exist with modern electronics or at
least give some indication of why not.

I will continue to tinker with what I have but for now, the functional stuff
is coming off line.

BTW, the failure of X10 to release the CM15A specs to the Open Source folks
was the last straw...

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2005\11\28@142913 by J. Wallace

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Bob..

> Speaking of X10, what value capacitor is typically used to couple the two
> sides of a 220V line together? My house is quite resistant to X10 signals
> except on the same outlet, which makes it not very useful as a remote
> control.
>
> I figure I can put the capacitor inside my 220V clothes dryer so it's
> relatively safe and not in the breaker panel.

I had a similar problem, and used the dryer to couple the AC phases.
I installed a 0.1uF 600vdc cap. (No supplier locally, so got it from an
appliance repair shop.)

Here's where I got the info from..
http://www.x10.com/support/x10trou.htm#pha

Regards,
Jay


2005\11\28@145234 by Bob Blick

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> I had a similar problem, and used the dryer to couple the AC phases.
> I installed a 0.1uF 600vdc cap. (No supplier locally, so got it from an
> appliance repair shop.)
>
> Here's where I got the info from..
> http://www.x10.com/support/x10trou.htm#pha

Thanks!

-Bob

2005\11\28@150303 by Danny Sauer

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John wrote regarding 'Re: [EE] X10 (was: carrier current signal injection)' on Mon, Nov 28 at 13:29:
[...]
> BTW, the failure of X10 to release the CM15A specs to the Open Source folks
> was the last straw...

You mean it wasn't the plethora of ads on X10.com suggesting that
every product they had was aimed at the voyeruistic, and the constant
"one day only sale!" which happened almost every day? :)

The X10 protocol is alright, but some of the cheaper devices really
aren't as forgiving of common line noise.  It sucks, but it's one of
those "get what you pay for" things.  Well, except that it's all
overpriced to begin with, so the good stuff tends to be obscenely
priced.  That's why *I* haven't bought any more stuff for years (I'm
pretty sure almost all of my parts are pre-Y2K)...

--Danny

2005\11\29@044204 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Reminds me of maybe 20 years ago when a neighbor got
>an ultrasonic bug repeller. They had to take it back
>because it took over control of their (old) television.

Have a high efficiency bulb that is like that when first turned on. The IR
from it overwhelms the receiver on the Hifi remote. You can start an action,
and then the radiation from the lamp causes the receiver to think the remote
is still transmitting. Makes for great fun attempting to adjust the volume
without blowing your eardrums out.

Once the lamp has warmed up then everything works fine.

2005\11\29@130850 by Peter

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On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Bob Blick wrote:

> Speaking of X10, what value capacitor is typically used to couple the two
> sides of a 220V line together? My house is quite resistant to X10 signals
> except on the same outlet, which makes it not very useful as a remote
> control.
>
> I figure I can put the capacitor inside my 220V clothes dryer so it's
> relatively safe and not in the breaker panel.

2.2nF X2 rated 2 to 5kV. You may have to add chokes between the main
distribution panel and each branch.

Peter

2005\11\30@153307 by Richard J. Pytelewski

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Bob:

This is my third house using X-10.... and it works sbsolutely reliably if
the installation is well thought out and analyzed like any other project.
True, this is claimed as "plug-n-play", but it really isn't.

The active coupler from Leviton is a good investment ... if my memory serves
me correctly there's a transmit receive LED on it and if it is on when you
aren't transmitting X-10 commands, work to determine where they are coming
from.  A suggestion is to take a look at all of the appliances in the house
and determine which could inject noise onto the line (any might).
Applicances with switching power supplies and PC's are especially noisy.
Using the circuit breaker panel one branch at a time send X-10 signals and
determine the reliability.  I'll bet you find one or more appliances that
are causing all of your X-10 reliability problemss.  These can be isolated
with commercially available filters.

While bridging ac legs is a good idea, cleaning up the ac environment will
yield much better results.

Happy Hunting!

Rich

{Original Message removed}

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