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'[EE] Water filled lightbulb'
2006\08\21@045850 by Peter Todd

picon face
Someone mentioned a water-filled lightbulb awhile back in a discussion
of sealing techniques...

Here is another example from a group who was exploring a sandstone mine
under a Ford plant: http://actionsquad.org/ford28.html Lots of water in
the area, so over the years, 50-odd in fact, it probably slowly
migrated. No word on if that one was functional.

Later on those guys managed to sneak into the main transformer room of
the plant, which is still completely active. They also got into the
adjoining hydro dam's turbine room. Can't go wrong by messing around
with live 13.5kV switchgear...

--
http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\08\24@104629 by Martin K

flavicon
face
6 hours later and I'm still reading about the labyrinth of tunnels in
the St. Paul area! It takes a different kind of person than I to
deliberately try to get into abandoned tunnels in the middle of the night.
--
MK

Peter Todd wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\08\24@113443 by Peter Todd

picon face
On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 10:46:20AM -0400, Martin K wrote:
> 6 hours later and I'm still reading about the labyrinth of tunnels in
> the St. Paul area! It takes a different kind of person than I to
> deliberately try to get into abandoned tunnels in the middle of the night.

I'll say, let alone nearly get killed venturing into oxygen deficient
stagnant unused sewer pipes. As a (pseudo)engineer I would have totally
rigged up some ventilation first!

More seriously I've always wondered how well sealed those types of
underground areas are. Essentially, would a party of explorers in
disused tunnel eventually deplete the available oxygen? Is there enough
permeability to allow CO2 to dissipate into the ground?

I've never heard it to be a problem with deep caves and at least high
levels of CO2, unlike methane, produce an obvious choking feeling. But
makes you wonder why this sort of problem hasn't come up.

--
http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\08\24@114534 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 8/21/06, Peter Todd <spam_OUTpeteTakeThisOuTspampetertodd.ca> wrote:
> Someone mentioned a water-filled lightbulb awhile back in a discussion
> of sealing techniques...

It was me.

>
> Here is another example from a group who was exploring a sandstone mine
> under a Ford plant: http://actionsquad.org/ford28.html Lots of water in
> the area, so over the years, 50-odd in fact, it probably slowly
> migrated. No word on if that one was functional.

So, you found another one !

I was curious to see who is the person which is searching the web to
check if an affirmation was valid. I found surprised an artist (btw,
from your resume is missing an important thing: your age)

http://petertodd.ca/art/encapsulated-time/

I've pointed to this link because I have an electronic clock in my
kitchen which, from time to time is going *backward* or anticlockwise
if you want.
This time I've made a movie with this behaviour (it's a 31Mb *.avi).
:)
greetings,
Vasile

2006\08\24@151823 by Martin K

flavicon
face
In natural tunnels I think generally they have enough oxygen because the
spaces are generally fairly large. Also the labyrinth they speak of is cut
through sand-rock they call it. Presumably this would have a pretty good
permeability.
In the rotting sewage-filled tunnel - well, the methane displaces
everything. In the other tunnels they explore that have moving grey water,
the oxygen probably moves in and around the water. I'm no expert, just an
engineer.
--
Martin K

On Thu, August 24, 2006 3:34 pm, Peter Todd wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\08\25@001106 by Peter Todd

picon face
On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 06:45:33PM +0300, Vasile Surducan wrote:
> On 8/21/06, Peter Todd <.....peteKILLspamspam@spam@petertodd.ca> wrote:
> > Someone mentioned a water-filled lightbulb awhile back in a discussion
> > of sealing techniques...
>
> It was me.
>
> >
> > Here is another example from a group who was exploring a sandstone mine
> > under a Ford plant: http://actionsquad.org/ford28.html Lots of water in
> > the area, so over the years, 50-odd in fact, it probably slowly
> > migrated. No word on if that one was functional.
>
> So, you found another one !

Yeah, quite by accident, but it set off a bulb in my mind... pardon the
pun...

> I was curious to see who is the person which is searching the web to
> check if an affirmation was valid. I found surprised an artist (btw,
> from your resume is missing an important thing: your age)

Well, it's 21, but I'm always kinda dubious of putting it in, it's easy
enouhg to figure out as it is, and I tend to have people assume I'm
older, which I think is a good thing. When I turn down full time jobs
because of school, people always assume I'm trying to get my phd!

> http://petertodd.ca/art/encapsulated-time/
>
> I've pointed to this link because I have an electronic clock in my
> kitchen which, from time to time is going *backward* or anticlockwise
> if you want.
> This time I've made a movie with this behaviour (it's a 31Mb *.avi).
> :)

Weird! Time-lapse, or is this a quick phenomenon?

Heck, email it to me, my email server should accept arbitrarily large
attachments if yours does.

--
http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\08\25@045511 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 8/25/06, Peter Todd <petespamKILLspampetertodd.ca> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 06:45:33PM +0300, Vasile Surducan wrote:
> > I was curious to see who is the person which is searching the web to
> > check if an affirmation was valid. I found surprised an artist (btw,
> > from your resume is missing an important thing: your age)
>
> Well, it's 21, but I'm always kinda dubious of putting it in, it's easy
> enouhg to figure out as it is, and I tend to have people assume I'm
> older, which I think is a good thing.


Then you have no ideea what a beautifull age is 21! You'll feel it at 40.
At 50 you'll remember how beautifull was the 30, and so on...
(this is not from my experience yet, but from others, there are a few
70 piclisters here, a.long life; b.healthy...if a & b then happines
for them)
:)


When I turn down full time jobs
> because of school, people always assume I'm trying to get my phd!

Take it as quickly as possible...

{Quote hidden}

I suspect it's a battery problem, but I like it every time it appears !
On every country from this planet there are a few stories talking
about "young without getting old and life without dead" I've guess
it's a different english expression for that, but I'm confident you're
understand it... (like bestuck now, from other topic)

>
> Heck, email it to me, my email server should accept arbitrarily large
> attachments if yours does.

Unfortunately I can't sending emails larger than 10Mb, but if you have
a ftp site, I can upload it there.

greetings,
Vasile

2006\08\25@201355 by Peter Todd

picon face
On Fri, Aug 25, 2006 at 11:55:10AM +0300, Vasile Surducan wrote:
> Then you have no ideea what a beautifull age is 21! You'll feel it at 40.
> At 50 you'll remember how beautifull was the 30, and so on...
> (this is not from my experience yet, but from others, there are a few
> 70 piclisters here, a.long life; b.healthy...if a & b then happines
> for them)
> :)

Well exercise is the key to that! Fortunately I think my frequent rock
climbing should do the trick; I'll either be healthy, or dead!

>  When I turn down full time jobs
> > because of school, people always assume I'm trying to get my phd!
>
> Take it as quickly as possible...

We'll see... I mean, I'm in arts school for one, dunno if I have the
maths to do engineering, I quit comp-sci for art already...

{Quote hidden}

ftp://petertodd.ca, anonymous ftp, upload to incoming.

Mental note: set disk quota for user ftp...

--
http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\08\27@144118 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 8/26/06, Peter Todd <.....peteKILLspamspam.....petertodd.ca> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2006 at 11:55:10AM +0300, Vasile Surducan wrote:
> > >
> > > > http://petertodd.ca/art/encapsulated-time/
> > > >
> > > > I've pointed to this link because I have an electronic clock in my
> > > > kitchen which, from time to time is going *backward* or anticlockwise
> > > > if you want.
> > > > This time I've made a movie with this behaviour (it's a 31Mb *.avi).
> > > > :)

it's here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjH68eQ_OJw

greetings,
Vasile

2006\08\27@152815 by Peter Todd

picon face
On Sun, Aug 27, 2006 at 09:41:17PM +0300, Vasile Surducan wrote:
> On 8/26/06, Peter Todd <EraseMEpetespam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTpetertodd.ca> wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 25, 2006 at 11:55:10AM +0300, Vasile Surducan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > http://petertodd.ca/art/encapsulated-time/
> > > > >
> > > > > I've pointed to this link because I have an electronic clock in my
> > > > > kitchen which, from time to time is going *backward* or anticlockwise
> > > > > if you want.
> > > > > This time I've made a movie with this behaviour (it's a 31Mb *.avi).
> > > > > :)
>
> it's here:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjH68eQ_OJw

YouTube, good idea...


What can I say, wow! Makes me think of one of those special backwards
barbershop clocks. It'd make a nice halloween decoration!

--
http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\08\27@162226 by Dave Lag

picon face
Peter Todd wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 27, 2006 at 09:41:17PM +0300, Vasile Surducan wrote:

>>>>>>I've pointed to this link because I have an electronic clock in my
>>>>>>kitchen which, from time to time is going *backward* or anticlockwise
>>>>>>if you want.
>>>>>>This time I've made a movie with this behaviour (it's a 31Mb *.avi).

> What can I say, wow! Makes me think of one of those special backwards
> barbershop clocks. It'd make a nice halloween decoration!
>

There's an idea for you Peter, take a traditional clock and replace the
motor with a stepper. Have it work normally keeping time but
periodically "go nuts" backwards, fast forward etc, then correct itself
and behave for a random period.That might sell..
:)   D

2006\08\27@163604 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
>
> There's an idea for you Peter, take a traditional clock and replace the
> motor with a stepper. Have it work normally keeping time but
> periodically "go nuts" backwards, fast forward etc, then correct itself
> and behave for a random period.That might sell..
> :)   D


A PIR detector could be used to detect when you were really in front of it
"watching" so as to prevent the behaviour during those times, but allow it
to go nuts when nobody's all that close to it.

2006\08\28@064959 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 8/27/06, David VanHorn <dvanhornspamspam_OUTmicrobrix.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > There's an idea for you Peter, take a traditional clock and replace the
> > motor with a stepper. Have it work normally keeping time but
> > periodically "go nuts" backwards, fast forward etc, then correct itself
> > and behave for a random period.That might sell..
> > :)   D
>
>
> A PIR detector could be used to detect when you were really in front of it
> "watching" so as to prevent the behaviour during those times, but allow it
> to go nuts when nobody's all that close to it.
>

A couple of pics wired up to piezo's to make it sound like the attic floor
is creaking as it would if someone would walk from one side to the other,
then ask some unsuspecting friends to house sit for a weekend... Hehe. I
like that idea!

Sean.

2006\08\28@075220 by Gus S Calabrese

face picon face

On 2006-Aug 27, at 12:41hrs PM, Vasile Surducan wrote:

On 8/26/06, Peter Todd <@spam@peteKILLspamspampetertodd.ca> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

it's here:              ( I love the heavy breathing )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjH68eQ_OJw

greetings,
Vasile

2006\08\28@213136 by Peter Todd

picon face
On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 12:49:57PM +0200, Sean Schouten wrote:
> > A PIR detector could be used to detect when you were really in front of it
> > "watching" so as to prevent the behaviour during those times, but allow it
> > to go nuts when nobody's all that close to it.
> >
>
> A couple of pics wired up to piezo's to make it sound like the attic floor
> is creaking as it would if someone would walk from one side to the other,
> then ask some unsuspecting friends to house sit for a weekend... Hehe. I
> like that idea!

Evil I say, especially as I'll be housesitting a 4 story mini-mansion
in a few months!

Reminds me of this toy:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/79be/

--
http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\08\29@091613 by William Couture

face picon face
On 8/28/06, Peter Todd <KILLspampeteKILLspamspampetertodd.ca> wrote:
> Reminds me of this toy:
>
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/79be/

That toy is $25.  Who here thinks they can come up with the cheapest
work-alike?

Bill

--
Psst...  Hey, you... Buddy...  Want a kitten?  straycatblues.petfinder.org

2006\08\29@094548 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
>> www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/79be/
> That toy is $25.  Who here thinks they can come up with the cheapest
> work-alike?

for extra donut-points: the smallest? A 9V battery is for sissies, a
real man uses two 1.5V cells, or one, or just a potato with two metal
strips.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\08\29@094851 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>> http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/79be/
>
> That toy is $25.  Who here thinks they can come up with the cheapest
> work-alike?

Olin.
You can use a PIC10F... and not much else.
Basically a battery and beeper and any processor will do it.

Extra points is given for the version with a light sensor that only
sounds in the dark. Turn on the light and it stops. Make it sound like
a cricket and ...

You can buy them.

Double extra point that uses the beeper as a mike to listen for
approaching searchers and go silent.

Several of these could use phased array techniques to help hide their
locations :-). May take a bit of coordination though.

I once started but never did complete a similar device that was going
to go on an office mates phone line, to be hidden in the ceiling
tiles. That would have been fun to find :-). We worked for the
national and sole NZ Telecoms operator at the time.



       Russell


2006\08\29@095205 by Jinx

face picon face
> real man.....

..... drops a fish behind the wallboards if he wants to
annoy a household or office

2006\08\29@104101 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>> for extra donut-points: the smallest? A 9V battery is for sissies,
>> a
>> real man uses two 1.5V cells, or one, or just a potato with two
>> metal
>> strips.

> ..... drops a fish behind the wallboards if he wants to
> annoy a household or office

... *very* wet blotter liberally coated in nitrogen triodide*.

Seriously though - this is an application for zinc air.
"230" cell 5.9 mm dia x 3.6mm thich gives 50+ mAh.


           RM

* don't try this at home - even though it's more fun per effort than
almost another anarchy leaning activity available.
(If you do try this at home, against good advice, wear eye protection
and realise that iodine stains are forever, be it in clothing or
linoleum. )
((Ask me how I...))

Extra points when used in the dark - flashes nicely.

2006\08\29@113236 by olin piclist

face picon face
Russell McMahon wrote:
> Olin.
> You can use a PIC10F... and not much else.
> Basically a battery and beeper and any processor will do it.
>
> Extra points is given for the version with a light sensor that only
> sounds in the dark. Turn on the light and it stops. Make it sound like
> a cricket and ...

I don't know why you are addressing this to me.  It does sound like a fun
exercise but I've already got lots of things to do.  If I were to do this
I'd make it run from a single AA battery.  You're right, after the power
supply all you need is a 10F204, a piezo speaker, and a CdS light sensor.  I
wouldn't want the sound to be a simple beep.  You could probably synthesize
a cricket-like sound in a software loop.

My HAL project (http://www.embedinc.com/pic/hal.htm) has some of these
features although the output sound is much more elaborate.  It only runs
when it's dark, and shuts down if you shine a flashlight at it.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\08\29@121428 by Timothy Weber

face picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:
> I
> wouldn't want the sound to be a simple beep.  You could probably synthesize
> a cricket-like sound in a software loop.

I can offer some old code for a very convincing cricket sound, modeled
on a Scientific American article from the 70s.

(Used in a similar vein on PCs in a school computer lab.)
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2006\08\29@124641 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 8/29/06, Wouter van Ooijen <RemoveMEwouterTakeThisOuTspamvoti.nl> wrote:
> >> www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/79be/
> > That toy is $25.  Who here thinks they can come up with the cheapest
> > work-alike?
>
> for extra donut-points: the smallest? A 9V battery is for sissies, a
> real man uses two 1.5V cells, or one, or just a potato with two metal
> strips.

Quite difficult because the piezo is able up to 120dB noise at 10cm away.
It need power for this, not only lemons...
:)
greetings,
Vasile

2006\08\29@130154 by Mike Hord

picon face
> I
> wouldn't want the sound to be a simple beep.  You could probably synthesize
> a cricket-like sound in a software loop.

A quiet shuffling of feet?  A gentle, polite cough or throat clearing?  Rustling
clothes?  Sniffles?  The possibilities are endless.

I like sniffles, if possible:  annoying, and in a cube-farm
environment, everyone
else would just assume it's their neighbor.  A few of these well placed could
cause a mock epidemic.

"Did you catch the bug that's going around?"

Mike H.

2006\08\29@131300 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
On 8/29/06, Timothy Weber <spamBeGonetwspamBeGonespamtimothyweber.org> wrote:
> I can offer some old code for a very convincing cricket sound, modeled
> on a Scientific American article from the 70s.

Please share!

-Adam

2006\08\29@132054 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
>  Quite difficult because the piezo is able up to 120dB noise
> at 10cm away.
> It need power for this, not only lemons...

but not continuous, so use an elco? some beam robots use this principle.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\08\29@133131 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Mike Hord wrote:
>> I
>> wouldn't want the sound to be a simple beep.  You could probably synthesize
>> a cricket-like sound in a software loop.
>>    
>
> A quiet shuffling of feet?  A gentle, polite cough or throat clearing?  Rustling
> clothes?  Sniffles?  The possibilities are endless.
>
> I like sniffles, if possible:  annoying, and in a cube-farm
> environment, everyone
> else would just assume it's their neighbor.  A few of these well placed could
> cause a mock epidemic.
>
> "Did you catch the bug that's going around?"
>
> Mike H.
>  
I loved the shuffling sound of everyone reaching back to check their
wallets (to make sure they were still
there) when Bill Gates rose to announce to his astonished audience that
the new Windows operating system
was "the most secure ever"...

--Bob

2006\08\29@141454 by Timothy Weber

face picon face
Mike Hord wrote:
>> I
>> wouldn't want the sound to be a simple beep.  You could probably synthesize
>> a cricket-like sound in a software loop.
>
> A quiet shuffling of feet?  A gentle, polite cough or throat clearing?  Rustling
> clothes?  Sniffles?  The possibilities are endless.

Heh!  I like this.  I've been playing with a Winbond ChipCorder
record/playback chip; might be a good use for it.  20 seconds' worth of
individually-addressable sounds on the ISD1420.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2006\08\29@190601 by Jinx

face picon face

> A quiet shuffling of feet?  A gentle, polite cough or throat
> clearing?  Rustling clothes?  Sniffles?  The possibilities are
> endless.

A distant "Hey ! You !". Guaranteed to make everyone look.
And in the same instant think "Oh s***, what've I done ?"

2006\08\30@003053 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
>> You can use a PIC10F... and not much else.
>>
I propose a pic10f, a 927-sized lithium coin cell, and one of those
SMT cell-phone sounders; the whole thing would be about 10mm square.

> ...old code for a very convincing cricket sound, modeled
> on a Scientific American article from the 70s.
> (Used in a similar vein on PCs in a school computer lab.)

Hmmph.  In my day, we had to settle for outputting control-G to
idle serial terminals of assorted types in "the terminal room",
trying to duplicate the theme from Close Encounters of the Third
Kind.

BillW

2006\08\30@005852 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 8/30/06, William Chops Westfield <TakeThisOuTwestfwEraseMEspamspam_OUTmac.com> wrote:
> >> You can use a PIC10F... and not much else.
> >>
> I propose a pic10f, a 927-sized lithium coin cell, and one of those
> SMT cell-phone sounders; the whole thing would be about 10mm square.
>

 I was thinking to a $3 toy(Bla-bla) with loudspeaker and microphone
being able to store 20 seconds of mesage at standard speed or 60
seconds of message at low speed.
It has everything including starting button for PIR detector connection.

greetings,
Vasile

2006\08\30@025612 by David VanHorn

picon face
I just saw a toy in walmart, like a biggish keychain, that plays up to an
hour of video on a 1" oled screen. (or something like 1200 photos)  It's
$70, but look for it on the sale aisle in 6 months or so.

2006\08\30@060609 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>That toy is $25.  Who here thinks they can come
>up with the cheapest work-alike?

78L05, 10F200 and beeper, must be about the limit if it has to run from 9V
...

2006\08\30@093105 by Dave Lag

picon face
David VanHorn wrote:
> I just saw a toy in walmart, like a biggish keychain, that plays up to an
> hour of video on a 1" oled screen. (or something like 1200 photos)  It's
> $70, but look for it on the sale aisle in 6 months or so.

Is it this ?
Mattel Juice Box
http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROFRAME&PROD_ID=2039880

2006\08\30@135617 by Robert Ammerman

picon face
556? and a few discretes?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan B. Pearce" <RemoveMEA.B.PearcespamTakeThisOuTrl.ac.uk>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistEraseMEspam.....mit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: [EE] Water filled lightbulb


> >That toy is $25.  Who here thinks they can come
>>up with the cheapest work-alike?
>
> 78L05, 10F200 and beeper, must be about the limit if it has to run from 9V
> ...
>
> --

2006\08\30@205519 by Timothy Weber

face picon face
M. Adam Davis wrote:
> On 8/29/06, Timothy Weber <EraseMEtwspamtimothyweber.org> wrote:
>> I can offer some old code for a very convincing cricket sound, modeled
>> on a Scientific American article from the 70s.
>
> Please share!
>
> -Adam

Well, I dug it out of the archives, but I doubt it's useful.  BASICA,
apparently:

10 'CRICKETS
20 FOR Z=1 TO 8
30 FOR X=1 TO 10
40 SOUND 1800,.05
50 NEXT
60 SOUND 2000,.02
70 FOR X=1 TO 1800
80 NEXT X
90 NEXT Z

I tried running it in GW-BASIC on an XP machine, but unsurprisingly, it
made a totally different sound.  Trying to model its output directly
requires knowing how fast BASICA could execute a FOR loop.  So, I think
you'd need the identical machine - an 8088 running at 10 MHz or so, if
IRC - to get the same sound.

Probably easier to catch a live cricket and put it next to a
microphone... Or I bet Google could find a useful recording somewhere.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2006\08\30@205734 by Timothy Weber

face picon face
William Chops Westfield wrote:
>> ...old code for a very convincing cricket sound, modeled
>> on a Scientific American article from the 70s.
>> (Used in a similar vein on PCs in a school computer lab.)
>
> Hmmph.  In my day, we had to settle for outputting control-G to
> idle serial terminals of assorted types in "the terminal room",
> trying to duplicate the theme from Close Encounters of the Third
> Kind.

Hey, at least we were continuing your fine tradition of using the
machines appropriately.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2006\08\31@115825 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
And I just threw away an old PS/2 and two PCjr computers.  All I have
left in my old computer stock is a 486/33.

Well, I'll have to play with it anyway.  Thanks!

-Adam

On 8/30/06, Timothy Weber <RemoveMEtwEraseMEspamEraseMEtimothyweber.org> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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