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'[EE] Walking Robot - person carrying'
2006\04\26@200725 by Russell McMahon

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First look at

   http://others.servebeer.com/temp/stairbot.jpg

to get your mindset right.

Then at

     http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20060426p2a00m0na021000c.html

     http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/photospecials/graph/photojournal/1.html


Awesome.
Hard to believe that it is 1 leg stable, as the photo seems to
suggest.
Cables suggest it may not have descended the whole way, but it may
have.
That man has nerve (even if he is wearing a tie).
[Reminiscent of early Sikorsky photo where he is flying an early
helicopter while dressed for a day in town.]

Also of interest may be

   http://others.servebeer.com/temp/walkingrobots




Ref: Matthew McMahon

2006\04\27@041344 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Also of interest may be
>
>    http://others.servebeer.com/temp/walkingrobots

Hmm, those timber ones are real war of the worlds stuff - how long before
they are in a Bond movie, or something of similar ilk.

2006\04\27@081640 by David VanHorn

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On 4/27/06, Alan B. Pearce <spam_OUTA.B.PearceTakeThisOuTspamrl.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >Also of interest may be
> >
> >    http://others.servebeer.com/temp/walkingrobots
>
> Hmm, those timber ones are real war of the worlds stuff - how long before
> they are in a Bond movie, or something of similar ilk.



Dean Ing used them many years ago, in a little story called "Malf".
A favorite of mine.


Feel the power of the dark side!  Atmel AVR

2006\04\27@135739 by Peter

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On Thu, 27 Apr 2006, Alan B. Pearce wrote:

>> Also of interest may be
>>
>>    http://others.servebeer.com/temp/walkingrobots

Whoever owns that site, please fix the html page's mime type ... I'm not
interested in reading the source (this time).

thanks,
Peter

2006\04\28@123216 by Russell McMahon

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>>> Also of interest may be
>>>
>>>    http://others.servebeer.com/temp/walkingrobots

> Whoever owns that site, please fix the html page's mime type ... I'm
> not
> interested in reading the source (this time).


It's mine.
The 'html' page is an MHT file produced by Microsoft Internet
Explorer. I have no trouble reading such. What are you using to (try
to) read it? To get it fixed you'd have to talk to Microsoft :-(.

FYI, there were about 100 accesses to the first picture and 60 plus to
the walking_robot directory.

The logging machine is one of a development series but is not made
commercially. The company produces wheeled and tracked logging
machines. I do like the walking one - I immediately thought of Star
Wars when I saw it.



       Russell


2006\04\28@141746 by Paul Hutchinson

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu On Behalf Of Russell McMahon
> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 12:32 PM
>
> > Whoever owns that site, please fix the html page's mime type ... I'm
> > not
> > interested in reading the source (this time).
>
> It's mine.
> The 'html' page is an MHT file produced by Microsoft Internet
> Explorer. I have no trouble reading such. What are you using to (try
> to) read it? To get it fixed you'd have to talk to Microsoft :-(.

The MHT file format is a proprietary Microsoft web archive, it is not a
standard HTML file.

If you want to save a site so that people who use browsers other than IE can
view it, use the Save As "Web Page, complete" option instead of the "Web
Archive, single file" option. This will create a standard HTML file with the
linked images in a subdirectory.

Paul

2006\04\29@042610 by Howard Winter

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Russell,

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 04:32:16 +1200, Russell McMahon wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Ah, damn the standards, use M$!  :-)  I've never heard of MHT - what is it?

> What are you using to (try to) read it?

Mozilla just displays the source code.

> To get it fixed you'd have to talk to Microsoft :-(.

"Dear Microsoft, I want to use someone else's software and your output isn't HTML standard.  Please fix it."

Hmmm...


Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\04\29@090301 by Russell McMahon

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>> >>> Also of interest may be
>> >>>
>> >>>    http://others.servebeer.com/temp/walkingrobots

>> The 'html' page is an MHT file produced by Microsoft Internet
>> Explorer. I have no trouble reading such.

> Ah, damn the standards, use M$!  :-)  I've never heard of MHT - what
> is it?

Nobody asked you to, Sir, she said.
(I'm nobody, I guess ;-) ).

Nothing suggested it was an HTML file, it's an MHT file which contains
HTML. Also, potentially, jpgs, GIFs and a few other things. And they
are extremely useful.

When you save a web page the default treatment is to make an html
header page and a subdirectory (aka folder) with all the pictures and
other material. Works well enough BUT they are not explicitly linked
and can be copied separately, or not.

The MHT format takes the whole page contents and places it in a single
file. If you want to archive it, move it or otherwise process it all
the information is in one file. Very nice if you have something which
handles it seamlessly.

I guess it is a standard :-) - as it does something that html doesn't
do as of right. If there is some other way of easily and cheaply
achieving the same end that also is compatible with a larger range of
browsers then I'd be pleased to know about it.


       Russell


2006\04\29@100538 by Rolf

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Russell McMahon wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Well, there is so much in what you said that I just plain disagree
with... but I am too much of a Linux fan....

Still, I think I can be un-biased enough to give a somewhat reasonable
response.

While I can appreciate that for you it is convenient to package the file
up in this MHT format, that does not mean it is the best solution. It
just means that for you there is nothing better that you know of.

Specifically, it does not make it a standard!

While it may be useful for managing your website, it is a lousy way to
actually deliver the web-site content. Here's why:
1. many many people will not recognize the file-type, and will simply
ignore it (which is what I did until this thread started in earnest).
2. many many browsers will not handle the file content at all, and will
display as text, or request a "save as". I use FireFox, "lynx" and
"links", and I had to find a windows machine to actually display the
content of the page as it was intended. I found that very scary because
things like the scroll-bar changed colour, etc. This makes me worry
about the security issues in that MHT seems to be able to take control
of more than I feel comfortable giving it..
3. It MIME-Encapsulates the content, which means a few things:
   a. The browsing client has no idea of what content is actually
inside the file until it is opened... think viruses.
   b. Binary type files (jpg's gifs, etc.) are base64 encoded, which
adds about 50% of the file-size, so your bandwidth costs more.
   c. you have to download the complete file in one go where most
browsers will be able to "parallelize" the download of the HTML content
with the images comming later.

So, if your intent is to use this MHT format to manage your website,
then fine. I find that CVS works well, or tar, or even Zip. But for
actually publishing content, it is not good.

For me, I will not trust any content distributed as MHT again. It seems
like an open invitation for abuse.

Rolf

2006\04\29@125129 by Peter

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On Sat, 29 Apr 2006, Howard Winter wrote:

> Ah, damn the standards, use M$!  :-)  I've never heard of MHT - what is it?

Looks like you just found out ...

>> What are you using to (try to) read it?
>
> Mozilla just displays the source code.

Yep.

Peter


2006\04\29@151610 by William Chops Westfield

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On Apr 29, 2006, at 5:35 AM, Russell McMahon wrote:

>
> The MHT format takes the whole page contents and places it in a single
> file. If you want to archive it, move it or otherwise process it all
> the information is in one file. Very nice if you have something which
> handles it seamlessly.
>
Oh; it's like a tar file.  I was going to say zip file, but I guess
it's not compressed at all...  And explorer knows how to interpret
it directly instead of having to download and un-tar it...  I guess
that's a bit useful...

BillW

2006\04\29@155305 by Timothy Weber

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William Chops Westfield wrote:
> On Apr 29, 2006, at 5:35 AM, Russell McMahon wrote:
>
> Oh; it's like a tar file.  I was going to say zip file, but I guess
> it's not compressed at all...  And explorer knows how to interpret
> it directly instead of having to download and un-tar it...  I guess
> that's a bit useful...

Note that IE's market share has fallen to 65% - 85%, depending on where
you look.  Probably lowest among technically-inclined folks.

My personal site's stats give IE 12%, which seems incredibly low to me;
may be due to some recent anomalies.  On my highest-traffic,
widest-audience business site, it's about 70%.

Anyway, I personally wouldn't want to shut out even 15% of users, much
less 35% or 88% - but of course it's your trade-off to make when you are
Master Of Your Own Domain!
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2006\04\30@160211 by Sean Schouten

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On 4/29/06, Timothy Weber <twspamKILLspamtimothyweber.org> wrote:

> Anyway, I personally wouldn't want to shut out even 15% of users, much
> less 35% or 88% - but of course it's your trade-off to make when you are
> Master Of Your Own Domain!
>


I stopped visiting the websites that force IE upon me...

2006\04\30@162143 by Carey Fisher

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Sean Schouten wrote:
> On 4/29/06, Timothy Weber <.....twKILLspamspam.....timothyweber.org> wrote:
>
>  
>> Anyway, I personally wouldn't want to shut out even 15% of users, much
>> less 35% or 88% - but of course it's your trade-off to make when you are
>> Master Of Your Own Domain!
>>
>>    
>
>
> I stopped visiting the websites that force IE upon me...
>  
Except when you really want to see the content on those websites.
Carey

2006\04\30@162856 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 4/30/06, Carey Fisher <EraseMEcareyfisherspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTncsradio.com> wrote:

> Except when you really want to see the content on those websites.
> Carey



If you would supplement the word "want" with "need", then I would agree with
you on that one.  Otherwise I try and look up the same information
elsewhere. I am not in favor of having things forced upon me... :-)

Sean

2006\04\30@165034 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> > I stopped visiting the websites that force IE upon me...
> Except when you really want to see the content on those websites.

That depends on the value of 'realy'. Except for a few exception (like
buy microchip, which does not allow me to select my credit card on
firefox) I never visit such a website again. And how would I know there
is content over there that I would want to see if I can't see it?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\04\30@171549 by Picdude

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> ... Except for a few exception (like
> buy microchip, which does not allow me to select my credit card on
> firefox) ...
>
> Wouter van Ooijen

Hmmm...I am able to use my credit card on Buy Microchip with Firefox.  Did this just a week ago.
-Neil.

2006\04\30@191723 by Carey Fisher

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Sean Schouten wrote:
> On 4/30/06, Carey Fisher <careyfisherspamspam_OUTncsradio.com> wrote:
>
>  
>> Except when you really want to see the content on those websites.
>> Carey
>>    
>
>
>
> If you would supplement the word "want" with "need", then I would agree with
> you on that one.  Otherwise I try and look up the same information
> elsewhere. I am not in favor of having things forced upon me... :-)
>
> Sean
>  
I was just making a point.  I always keep IE around because content is
usually more important than presentation. So what if a particular page
needs IE to view it properly?

Also, things are "forced on you" all the time.  Maybe you'd prefer a
protocol other than http for viewing web pages? How about using EBCDIC
instead of ASCII?
And don't you just love how you have to begin with the START button to
SHUTDOWN your computer?

Carey


2006\04\30@193522 by Herbert Graf

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On Sun, 2006-04-30 at 19:17 -0400, Carey Fisher wrote:
{Quote hidden}

What about people who don't have access to IE? At work there are times
when my only accessible machine is Unix or Linux based. At University
you had to specifically go to a "PC" lab to get access to IE, everything
else on campus was either IRIX or Linux.

> Also, things are "forced on you" all the time.  Maybe you'd prefer a
> protocol other than http for viewing web pages? How about using EBCDIC
> instead of ASCII?

Those are both vendor independent standards. IE is a monopoly sourced
thing that tries to believe it's a standard. Those are two very
different things, apples and oranges.

> And don't you just love how you have to begin with the START button to
> SHUTDOWN your computer?

Actually to shut down my computer I type: shutdown.

TTYL

2006\04\30@194051 by Sean Schouten

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On 5/1/06, Herbert Graf <KILLspammailinglist2KILLspamspamfarcite.net> wrote:

> Actually to shut down my computer I type: shutdown.
>

I hit the power-button... :-D

2006\04\30@195210 by Herbert Graf

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On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 01:40 +0200, Sean Schouten wrote:
> On 5/1/06, Herbert Graf <RemoveMEmailinglist2TakeThisOuTspamfarcite.net> wrote:
>
> > Actually to shut down my computer I type: shutdown.
> >
>
> I hit the power-button... :-D

Yes, I suppose I could do that, but it's just so much cooler for it to
do it itself! :)

TTYL

2006\04\30@202003 by Sean Schouten

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On 5/1/06, Herbert Graf <spamBeGonemailinglist2spamBeGonespamfarcite.net> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 01:40 +0200, Sean Schouten wrote:
> > On 5/1/06, Herbert Graf <TakeThisOuTmailinglist2EraseMEspamspam_OUTfarcite.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Actually to shut down my computer I type: shutdown.
> > >
> >
> > I hit the power-button... :-D
>
> Yes, I suppose I could do that, but it's just so much cooler for it to
> do it itself! :)
>

I thought I read something about a script that automatically shuts down your
Linux machine when you hit the power-button much like your system would
under windows, considering it's an ATX system.

It's really a shame that all the great (and not so great but necesary)
development tools are mostly windows based. If that was not the case, I
would definately boot it up more often.

Sean.

2006\04\30@203341 by Howard Winter

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Carey,

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:17:27 -0400, Carey Fisher wrote:

> And don't you just love how you have to begin with the
START button to SHUTDOWN your computer?

Only in Windows...

Under OS/2 you press the "Shutdown" button.  

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\04\30@205819 by Herbert Graf

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On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 02:20 +0200, Sean Schouten wrote:
> I thought I read something about a script that automatically shuts down your
> Linux machine when you hit the power-button much like your system would
> under windows, considering it's an ATX system.

Yes, I've heard of that, under /proc/acpi you can get button status, it
wouldn't take much to write a script that on a change would shut down
your system.

> It's really a shame that all the great (and not so great but necesary)
> development tools are mostly windows based. If that was not the case, I
> would definately boot it up more often.

Run vmware. It's free, it works VERY well (especially if you upgrade to
dual core as I just have) and it'll run pretty much anything you can run
on a windows machine (only exception I can think of right now is games,
I'm sure they WOULD run, but I'm also sure you wouldn't like the
speed...). No dual booting nonsense. You have the beauty of Linux all
the time, with a full up windows system ready to run at any time my
simply unminimizing the vmware window.

TTYL


'[EE] Walking Robot - person carrying'
2006\05\01@020257 by Wouter van Ooijen
face picon face
> Hmmm...I am able to use my credit card on Buy Microchip with
> Firefox.  Did this just a week ago.

I'll try again when I have a new version installed. The version I
currently have did not work. I could create a credit card, but not
select it.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\05\01@082532 by PicDude

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On Monday 01 May 2006 01:04, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> > Hmmm...I am able to use my credit card on Buy Microchip with
> > Firefox.  Did this just a week ago.
>
> I'll try again when I have a new version installed. The version I
> currently have did not work. I could create a credit card, but not
> select it.


Post your credit card info here and we'll have everyone try it. :-) :-) :-)
-Neil.

2006\05\01@121807 by Russell McMahon

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>> Except when you really want to see the content on those websites.

> If you would supplement the word "want" with "need", then I would
> agree with
> you on that one.  Otherwise I try and look up the same information
> elsewhere. I am not in favor of having things forced upon me... :-)

Nobody asked you to, Sir, she said.
Unquote.
Again.

The website which occasioned these comments contains an MHT file coz
it was convenient. There are also a number of jpg files which convey
the main point. ie the coolness of the robot logging walker. I imagine
that I probably copied the whole set from somewhere else within my
system, where IE happens to be present. But I take the point and will
try to use non MHT files in such applications in future, pain though
it is to ensure that all the files get there and that they work
together properly in the new location. With the MHT file, if it works
at all, it works perfectly. No lost parts, no absolute references to
files which are now in the wrong location, no ... . It html had
something which was "standards compliant" it would be useful.

I avoid sites which force me to use tar files :-)



       RM

2006\05\01@130441 by Peter

picon face

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006, Carey Fisher wrote:

> Sean Schouten wrote:
>> On 4/29/06, Timothy Weber <RemoveMEtwspamTakeThisOuTtimothyweber.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway, I personally wouldn't want to shut out even 15% of users, much
>>> less 35% or 88% - but of course it's your trade-off to make when you are
>>> Master Of Your Own Domain!
>>
>> I stopped visiting the websites that force IE upon me...
>>
> Except when you really want to see the content on those websites.

Usually you can set the 'user agent' to something compatible. But then,
they have sites which insist in running their own tests, and that fails
too. Come to think of it, why run so many tests, just break into the
client's system, check if their license is ok, redirect to fbi.gov if
not, or if any errors occur.

Peter

2006\05\01@131033 by Peter

picon face

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006, Herbert Graf wrote:

> On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 01:40 +0200, Sean Schouten wrote:
>> On 5/1/06, Herbert Graf <mailinglist2EraseMEspam.....farcite.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually to shut down my computer I type: shutdown.
>>
>> I hit the power-button... :-D
>
> Yes, I suppose I could do that, but it's just so much cooler for it to
> do it itself! :)

And it is even cooler when it does it by itself, somewhat randomly. Just
happened to me today, I went to an Internet cafe to check some things
from the 'outside' of what I just set up and the thing froze and folded
in front of me after I watched a 120 second clip on CNN. Great stuff,
that XP thing. And this was professionally secured and all that.

Oh, by the way, there is a Firefox bug out that causes browser crashes
via crafted code. I tried it, it works ;-(. A bugfix release is due out
this week. Note that if you hit this problem there is NO POINT in
clicking 'restore session' when you restart the browser. The bug is
deterministic. I tested that too.

Peter

2006\05\01@131302 by Peter

picon face

On Mon, 1 May 2006, Sean Schouten wrote:

> On 5/1/06, Herbert Graf <EraseMEmailinglist2spamfarcite.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 01:40 +0200, Sean Schouten wrote:
>> > On 5/1/06, Herbert Graf <RemoveMEmailinglist2EraseMEspamEraseMEfarcite.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Actually to shut down my computer I type: shutdown.
>> >
>> > I hit the power-button... :-D
>>
>> Yes, I suppose I could do that, but it's just so much cooler for it to
>> do it itself! :)
>>
> I thought I read something about a script that automatically shuts down your
> Linux machine when you hit the power-button much like your system would
> under windows, considering it's an ATX system.
>
> It's really a shame that all the great (and not so great but necesary)
> development tools are mostly windows based. If that was not the case, I
> would definately boot it up more often.

In Linux everything is a script. When you hotplug a device a script
runs. When you unplug it it runs again. When you push a button, the
same. You can make it do whatever you want. For example shutdown or say
'that is not allowed'.

Like what tools ? Eclipse ?

Peter

2006\05\01@170821 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 5/1/06, Peter <RemoveMEplpspam_OUTspamKILLspamactcom.co.il> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

You meant to say that everything is a *file*!!! (I hope...)



Like what tools ? Eclipse ?



Like MPLAB,  Multisim, LTSPICE (SWCAD), Ultiboard, Mathcad, LabVIEW and
that's basically it. I already use open office under windows for all of my
word processing.


Sean.

2006\05\02@080555 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
> And don't you just love how you have to begin with the START button to
> SHUTDOWN your computer?

Well, I guess it is the start of another operation ...

2006\05\02@114426 by Peter

picon face


On Mon, 1 May 2006, Sean Schouten wrote:

> You meant to say that everything is a *file*!!! (I hope...)

Every file with the x bit set is a program ;-) English text that makes
some sense and has the x bit set is a script ;-) ;-)

> Like what tools ? Eclipse ?
>
> Like MPLAB,  Multisim, LTSPICE (SWCAD), Ultiboard, Mathcad, LabVIEW and
> that's basically it. I already use open office under windows for all of my
> word processing.

MPLAB runs under Wine, LTSPICE runs under Wine, Mathcad exists for Linux
afaik and there is Scilab, LabVIEW has a Linux version afaik. Don't know
about Multisim. I would like to know if someone has a higher end CPU and
runs SPICE on it. Does it make a serious difference ? By higher end I
mean a dual AMD $1200 CPU or similar.

Peter

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