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'[EE] Very simple portable iPhone charger andlowvol'
2010\12\06@223744 by Oli Glaser

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On 07/12/2010 01:52, M.L. wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Tamas Rudnai<spam_OUTtamas.rudnaiTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com>  wrote:
>> I thought that graph was *not* from an iPhone, but some Android one? What
>> also Olin said is that solarwind would need to measure his iPhone and draw
>> that graphs to go any further from this point.
>>
>
> And Russell said that the iPhone 3 has a linear regulator charge controller.
> It's hard to believe the iPhone 4 would be drastically different,
> considering the convenient 5v supply for charging the 4.2v lithium
> battery.

Is this an iPhone4?
I was sure I'd seen a teardown of it somewhere online recently, thought maybe that would be an idea to get info on the charging circuit if the wish is to avoid testing with a bench supply (popular product, sure there has to be someone that pulled it apart.
(I found out below someone has and it doesn't help much anyway...)
I have access to an iPhone 1 here I would be willing to test, but they may have changed things since then.
I believe they have from what I discovered - I think the iPhone 1 uses an LTC 4066 IC - info here:
http://tzywen.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=696 <http://tzywen.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=696>

This page might be of interest from Lady Ada:
www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/icharge.html
Seems the Apple stuff can get very picky about the datalines (similar to my Omnia - had to hack a charger for that, would not simply charge from any USB source) needing voltage dividers etc.
I also found the iPhone4 uses this power management IC:
Dialog D1815A 338S0867
Info from this page:
www.isuppli.com/Teardowns-Manufacturing-and-Pricing/News/Pages/iPhone-4-Carries-Bill-of-Materials-of-187-51-According-to-iSuppli.aspx
And this page:
http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-features/50344-the-real-iphone-4-teardown

Could not find a datasheet for it though, so no idea about how it works...

Looks like the bench supply test may be the only way to find out the desired information...


2010\12\07@005915 by Oli Glaser

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On 07/12/2010 04:31, RussellMc wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Oli doubly-respondeth:

Didn't notice that bit, that probably gives a good indication of how it does things.
I registered and requested the info anyway, as I figured some figures would still be nice for (useful) Vin range - not been asked for any payment so far. Will update if I receive anything.

2010\12\07@030206 by Oli Glaser

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On 07/12/2010 07:35, RussellMc wrote:
>> I registered and requested the info anyway, as I figured some figures
>> would still be nice for (useful) Vin range - not been asked for any
>> payment so far. Will update if I receive anything.
>
> Alas I rather think they think they are "real"
>
>      From: http://www.ubmtechinsights.com/reports-and-subscriptions/open-market-reports/search/?Manufacturer=Apple
>
>
> UBM TechInsights has a number of standard reports available to help
> you address your own specific needs.  These reports have standardized
> content but a variety of options are available.  Our advanced
> technical reports range in price from $8,500 - $26,000 (see notes on
> pricing, below). Samples of our advanced technical reports include:
> ...
>
>
>
> R

I think you're right.
At first I though the stuff under open market reports was free as it had no "buy now" tag attached to the description but looking closer it says for "resale". Thought it wouldn't hurt to ask anyway - they may send it by accident, be feeling really generous, free report for 1 millionth customer, or something... stranger things have happened.. :-)

2010\12\08@120723 by alan.b.pearce

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> No, it doesn't seem to..
> My Omnia will only charge from the USB after enumeration with normal
USB
> cable, and requires a "special" cable to charge otherwise (e.g. if
phone
> is dead) Maybe there is some communication going on to monitor
charging,
> turn off after a certain period.
> I get the feeling a lot of companies may be going out of their way to
> try and make sure one sticks to their chargers, maybe not always by
the
> most honest of means, a little similar to the laptop battery
situation.

So there is a market for a 24 pin (or whatever the smallest size Mchip
device that will do Host mode is) PIC24 battery charger enumeration
device - put between your power source and USB chargeable device so it
enumerates and will charge from anywhere. Add in a car cigarette lighter
adapter ...
-- Scanned by iCritical.

2010\12\09@212008 by Oli Glaser
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On 10/12/2010 00:20, RussellMc wrote:
>>> The iPhone isn't looking for a "steady voltage", it's looking for a
>>> ratio between lines, exactly what using resistors gets you, so the
>>> obvious solution? Use resistors.
>> Where did you get this information from?
> Even if you don't follow Herbert's advice, you could consider using my
> already completed Googling of several days ago.
>
> I provided links to discussion of the  IC used, how to use resistors
> to set charge rate, circuit diagram of how to use resistors, values to
> use to achieve desired result, photo of inside of phone with charging
> IC identified, link to data sheet of IC. The data sheet discusses how
> the resistor method works and I have pointed out, perhaps several
> times, that that information is in the IC data sheet (LTC4066).

I seem to recall doing similar too...
IIRC, the iPhone4 uses the Dialog part, but it probably works similarly from what I can gather from LadyAdas page and also the Dialog site:
http://www.dialog-semiconductor.com/index.php
The apple custom PMIC might be similar to this kind of thing:
http://www.dialog-semiconductor.com/downloads/Dialog_PB_DA9052.pdf

I'd just go with info from the LTC4066, and the info from LadyAda and others, then just try out a few different resistor dividers on the data lines whilst measuring current to figure things out.


Previous links from my other mail:

I believe they have from what I discovered - I think the iPhone 1 uses
an LTC 4066 IC - info here:
tzywen.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=696
<http://tzywen.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=696>

This page might be of interest from Lady Ada:
www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/icharge.html
Seems the Apple stuff can get very picky about the datalines (similar to
my Omnia - had to hack a charger for that, would not simply charge from
any USB source) needing voltage dividers etc.
I also found the iPhone4 uses this power management IC:
Dialog D1815A 338S0867
Info from this page:
www.isuppli.com/Teardowns-Manufacturing-and-Pricing/News/Pages/iPhone-4-Carries-Bill-of-Materials-of-187-51-According-to-iSuppli.aspx
And this page:
http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-features/50344-the-real-iphone-4-teardown


2010\12\10@003958 by Oli Glaser

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On 10/12/2010 04:23, RussellMc wrote:
>> True. I'm going to use Ladyada's resistor values to get a 1 Amp charge. My
>> biggest concern right now is hoping that the initial high voltage (5.6
>> volts) of the 4-cell NiMH eneloop battery pack wont damage the phone, since
>> 5.6 volts is above the USB spec.
> I imagine that OL will note that you declined to use a power supply
> which could be precisely configured but "hope" that batteries won't
> hurt your phone :-).
>
> I'd say that there is a good chance that it will be OK, for a wide but
> incomplete range of good. Apple may be evil but they are less often
> technically stupid. Has been known to happen :-).
>
>
>     R

If 5.6V managed to hurt the phone I would be amazed - as noted above Apple are many things, but not (usually) technically inept. If worried I'm pretty sure you could find out the absolute maximum specs from Google/Apple, or voltage limit your design (transistor/zener?)
Current limited bench supply would be safer for testing if available.

2010\12\10@004549 by Oli Glaser

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On 10/12/2010 04:52, V G wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:44 PM, RussellMc<.....apptechnzKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> As you said you wanted to be able to terminate charge on low battery
>> you will need a series pass element (transistor usually) so can limit
>> maximum output voltage extremely easily. An eg CES2310 FET, anyold
>> [tm] opamp (say LM358 / LM324) a cheap reference diode (TL431) and a
>> few resistors will allow an acceptable solution.
>
> What does low battery protection have to do with maximum output voltage? I'm
> not understanding what you're saying.

I think Russell means the same circuit can also limit maximum voltage, creating a "window" for acceptable battery voltage.

2010\12\10@014321 by Oli Glaser

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On 10/12/2010 06:21, RussellMc wrote:
>>> As you said you wanted to be able to terminate charge on low battery
>>> you will need a series pass element (transistor usually) so can limit
>>> maximum output voltage extremely easily. An eg CES2310 FET, anyold
>>> [tm] opamp (say LM358 / LM324) a cheap reference diode (TL431) and a
>>> few resistors will allow an acceptable solution.
>> What does low battery protection have to do with maximum output voltage? I'm
>> not understanding what you're saying.
> To turn the output off you need a "switch".
> I've mentioned a very nice FET that would do that, but there are many available.

Si3456 are quite decent for power rating in a small package, I've used this and the Si3455 a few times (with a decent plane underneath for heatsink purposes)

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