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'[EE] Using Virtual Machines'
2011\03\11@203131 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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From another thread:

>  I cannot imagine trying to do my job without extensive use of  
> virtual machines.

Ok; I'm game.  How and why are people using virtual machines for  development work ?

BillW

2011\03\11@210223 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 9:31 AM, William "Chops" Westfield
<spam_OUTwestfwTakeThisOuTspammac.com> wrote:
>  From another thread:
>
>>  I cannot imagine trying to do my job without extensive use of
>> virtual machines.
>
> Ok; I'm game.  How and why are people using virtual machines for
> development work ?
>

I can think of two reasons now that my neighbor is using VMs
to test.
1) because the software in development will crash
the whole computer and he does not want to see that
so often. ;-)
2) he needs to test the software for several version of
Windows whereas his own PC runs only Windows XP.





-- Xiaofan

2011\03\11@210413 by cdb

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:: How and why are people using virtual machines for
:: development work

Not sure this comes under EE, but I use my VM's to try out beta versions or one off installations. So MBLAB X Beta is in a VM at the moment.

I also use VM's for testing software on different OS's. I do have one programming tool that only runs on XP 32bit so my W7 64bit host system has XP 32bit VM to run that tool.

Colin
--
cdb, .....colinKILLspamspam@spam@btech-online.co.uk on 12/03/2011
Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk   Hosted by:  http://www.justhost.com.au
 

2011\03\11@213047 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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Em 11/3/2011 22:31, William "Chops" Westfield escreveu:
>  From another thread:
>
>>  I cannot imagine trying to do my job without extensive use of  
>> virtual machines.
> Ok; I'm game.  How and why are people using virtual machines for  
> development work ?


I run Linux inside VMWare to cross-compile the Linux kernel and device
drivers for ARM MCUs.
Applications can be compiled under Windows, but the kernel builds only
under Linux itself.

My laptop has Windows and I don't want to reboot to run another O.S.
I simply run VMWare and can switch instantly OSs with a click.

Isaac

2011\03\11@222753 by Chris McSweeny

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On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 1:31 AM, William "Chops" Westfield
<westfwspamKILLspammac.com> wrote:
>  From another thread:
>
>>  I cannot imagine trying to do my job without extensive use of
>> virtual machines.
>
> Ok; I'm game.  How and why are people using virtual machines for
> development work ?

My dev machine is a Windows box, and right now I'm using one to test
Linux stuff (whilst still having access to all the Windows based tools
I need - often I run a very minimal Linux install). Others on my team
use them to make Linux builds. Previously I've done stuff which
involves testing what you can do without breaking the Linux install -
this often results in breaking the Linux install, and it's extremely
handy to have snapshots to revert to. We also do stuff with multiple
test machines networked together - all VMs running on a server.

Chris

2011\03\11@223401 by Sergey Dryga

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William "Chops" Westfield <westfw <at> mac.com> writes:

>
>  From another thread:
>
> >  I cannot imagine trying to do my job without extensive use of  
> > virtual machines.
>
> Ok; I'm game.  How and why are people using virtual machines for  
> development work ?
>
> BillW
> I use VMware Player to run dedicated Windows installs for financial stuff (1),
CCS IDE and other EE tools like ViewMate than are not available under Linux(2),
separate VMs to try new software.  Host Linux box used for web development
(LAMP) and for QT development to talk to/control embedded systems and to program
PICs.

Sergey Dryga
http://beaglerobotics.com

2011\03\12@031455 by N. T.

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OK, does anyone use the VM installation (*nix under Win, or Win under
Win) not only for development and testing, but for some more or less
critical task?

Personally, I think, I would not use VM at all, I woiuld just install
another system in a new partition. Rebooting is not a big hassle
compared to the hassle of troubleshhoting Windows potentially affected
by the VM installation.


William "Chops" Westfield  wrote:
> How and why are people using virtual machines for
> development work ?
>

cdb wrote:
> I use my VM's to try out beta versions or
> one off installations. So MBLAB X Beta is in a VM at the moment.
>
> I also use VM's for testing software on different OS's. I do have one
> programming tool that only runs on XP 32bit so my W7 64bit host system has
> XP 32bit VM to run that tool.

Isaac Marino Bavaresco wrote:
> I run Linux inside VMWare to cross-compile the Linux kernel and device
> drivers for ARM MCUs.
> Applications can be compiled under Windows, but the kernel builds only
> under Linux itself.

Chris McSweeny wrote:
> My dev machine is a Windows box, and right now I'm using one to test
> Linux stuff (whilst still having access to all the Windows based tools
> I need - often I run a very minimal Linux install). Others on my team
> use them to make Linux builds.

Sergey Dryga wrote:
> separate VMs to try new software.  Host Linux box used for web development
> (LAMP) and for QT development to talk to/control embedded systems and to program
> PICs.

2011\03\12@061617 by Gerhard Fiedler

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N. T. wrote:

> OK, does anyone use the VM installation (*nix under Win, or Win under
> Win) not only for development and testing, but for some more or less
> critical task?

Not currently, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. Currently I do
most of my work under Windows and have build and development Linux VMs,
but I anticipate a switch at some point. I do my accounting in Quicken,
and although I dislike much of it, I don't think I'm ready to switch any
time soon -- so if I can't get this going under Wine after a switch to
Linux, I'd run it in a Windows VM without hesitation. This would be a
critical task.

> Personally, I think, I would not use VM at all, I woiuld just install
> another system in a new partition. Rebooting is not a big hassle
> compared to the hassle of troubleshhoting Windows potentially
> affected by the VM installation.

I didn't see any ill effects on Windows by neither the VMware nor the
VirtualBox installations. To me, rebooting /is/ a hassle; in the example
given above, I really would hate having to reboot twice just to access
my accounting program and get back.

To answer Bill's question: Currently I run Linux VMs for Linux software
development. At some point I used VMs for testing Windows programs under
different versions of Windows. I also used them for running the several
tiers of a multi-tier web site in several VMs on one system for
development.

This is all stuff for which I wouldn't want to have to reboot (in a
multi-boot setup) or have to buy another system.
Gerhar

2011\03\12@062940 by cdb

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:: To me, rebooting /is/ a hassle; in the example
:: given above, I really would hate having to reboot twice just to
:: access my accounting program and get back.

Just to add;

With both VirtualBox and VMware they integrate into the host system, so you can cut and paste between host and VM, directly download a 'dodgy' file  onto the VM, run it/virus check it etc, if it is OK, copy it over to the 'live' system.

Colin
--
cdb, .....colinKILLspamspam.....btech-online.co.uk on 12/03/2011
Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk   Hosted by:  http://www.justhost.com.au
 

2011\03\12@122503 by YES NOPE9

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I use one MacBook laptop as a server.  It is on a UPS , so there is a double battery reserve.  I am running VirtualBox.   Inside VirtualBox , I run Windows XP which I use to support printers.  ( There are more printer drivers for XP than Linux or Mac ).  I also run Debian Linux under VirtualBox ).

So my server can supply whatever application I want.
gus in denver  99gu

2011\03\12@133331 by N. T.

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YES NOPE9  wrote:
> I use one MacBook laptop as a server.  It is on a UPS , so there is a
> double battery reserve.  I am running VirtualBox.   Inside VirtualBox ,
> I run Windows XP which I use to support printers.  ( There are more
> printer drivers for XP than Linux or Mac ).  I also run Debian Linux
> under VirtualBox ).
>
> So my server can supply whatever application I want.

Some VirtualBox 4.0.4 limitations:
http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch14.html

2011\03\12@135911 by Bob Blick

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Speaking of general computer topics being OT, this thread should
probably move to OT.

Thanks,

Bob

-- http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an
                         unladen european swallow

2011\03\12@142352 by Gerhard Fiedler

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N. T. wrote:

> YES NOPE9  wrote:
>> I use one MacBook laptop as a server.  It is on a UPS , so there is a
>> double battery reserve.  I am running VirtualBox.   Inside VirtualBox ,
>> I run Windows XP which I use to support printers.  ( There are more
>> printer drivers for XP than Linux or Mac ).  I also run Debian Linux
>> under VirtualBox ).
>>
>> So my server can supply whatever application I want.
>
> Some VirtualBox 4.0.4 limitations:
> http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch14.html

There's also VMware ESXi
<http://www.vmware.com/products/vsphere-hypervisor/faq.html>

I haven't used it, but I think next time I install a system from scratch
I give it a shot.

I think it's the only free bare metal virtualizer. Differently from
pretty much all the others, it sits directly on the hardware, and
basically all OSes are running in a "bare metal VM". One downside is
probably that you need all the right hardware drivers for ESXi.

Gerhard

2011\03\12@144102 by mcd

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N. T. wrote:

> OK, does anyone use the VM installation (*nix under Win, or Win
> under Win) not only for development and testing, but for some more
> or less critical task?

I have several VMs running Windows under Fedora (and a few running Fedora
and Ubuntu).  One of them is for a critical task; using the State's
Critical Incident Mangement System, although it is a pretty simple,
lightweight task.

I use the others for MPLAB.  I get folks asking questions about this or
that version of MPLAB, and in spite of Microchip's attempts, multiple
versions of MPLAB don't play well together.  A VM is a simple, easy way to
deal with that.

> Personally, I think, I would not use VM at all, I woiuld just install
> another system in a new partition. Rebooting is not a big hassle
> compared to the hassle of troubleshhoting Windows potentially affected
> by the VM installation.

There really isn't a hassle in troubleshooting, at least with KVM, and in
fact, it seems like reliability is increased by having fewer applications
competing with each other.  Windows is surprisingly stable if you only
ever do one thing.

And there is a whale of a big difference in "hassle" between dropping
everything you are doing and rebooting just to use some Windows app, as
opposed to simply opening the window with the app.  For me, at least, it
isn't the rebooting that is the problem, it's dropping the things I am
working on.

I have a couple of dual-boot machines, but they almost never get Windows
booted.  The single machine I have that actually gets used for Windows is
orders of magnitude more hassle than my multiple Windows VMs.

--McD

2011\03\12@151103 by Sergey Dryga

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N. T. <ntypesemi <at> gmail.com> writes:

>
> OK, does anyone use the VM installation (*nix under Win, or Win under
> Win) not only for development and testing, but for some more or less
> critical task?
>
> Personally, I think, I would not use VM at all, I woiuld just install
> another system in a new partition. Rebooting is not a big hassle
> compared to the hassle of troubleshhoting Windows potentially affected
> by the VM installation.

I have a web server (my wife's company) running in VM (Linux host and guest). You can check it out: http://customreagents.com even with a very modest hardware
(quad-core 2.1 GHz, 8 GB RAM)website is running at acceptable speed. Currently
it has 3 VM's running, plus MySQL on the host.  
Sergey Dryga
http://beaglerobotics.com

2011\03\13@130352 by N. T.

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Yes, I think, VMs are worth to try.


Sergey Dryga wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2011\03\13@171055 by Bob Ammerman

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I develop primarily in Windows for microcontrollers and Windows itself. For my occasional forays into Linux development I use a virtual machine.

-- Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

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