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'[EE] Tool Demagetizer'
2008\04\03@025833 by Forrest Christian

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face
I seem to regularly have some tool or another which somehow becomes
magnetized - rendering it either annoying (ever tried to trim leads with
a magnetized set of cutters?) or just plain useless (magnetized tweezers
used to place parts anyone?).

I've tried a "passive" tool magnetizer/demagnetizer with no luck - it
seems to leave plenty of residual magnetism, and maybe even makes it worse.

I know that I can build a TV style degauss unit out of a big (meaning
long and also large around) coil of magnet wire attached to an AC plug,
but the plans I've found of course require lots of magnet wire, and are
definately not designed for tool demagnetizing.   I'd try winding a
similar amount of wire onto a smaller form, but creating a unknown
inductance and plugging it into an AC wall outlet scares me for obvious
reasons.  I've also given some thought of making one and putting it in
series with a 100W indandescent "current limiter and light producer",
but that isn't really what I want.

So, to ask my questions:

1) Has anyone had luck with any of the "passive" demagnetizers, meaning
that a specific type seems to remove all traces of magnetism from a
given tool?

2) How about some of the commerical "active" demagetizers.  Seems like
there are a few that are around $100 or so, but I don't want to buy 2-3
to find one which works.

3) Finally, are there any kits/plans available to build your own ...  or
does someone have one they built which works?  And perhaps related -
let's assume I build one, does anyone have an idea of the inductance
and/or DC resistance I would need to not pop the breaker and/or cause
glowing wire?   Let's assume US 120V 60Hz.

Thanks.

-forrest


2008\04\03@033731 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> (ever tried to trim leads with
> a magnetized set of cutters?) or just plain useless (magnetized tweezers
> used to place parts anyone?).

I have one cutter that somehow became magnetised - and I love it! No
more wire ends on the floor to hurt my bare feet!

But I can't help you with demagnetizing.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2008\04\03@035336 by Forrest Christian

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Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> I have one cutter that somehow became magnetised - and I love it! No
> more wire ends on the floor to hurt my bare feet!
Actually the magetized cutter got moved to the R&D "facility" (aka home
workshop) where I agree that a magnetized cutter is not necessarily a
bad thing.

However, it *does* get annoying when I am in production mode and have to
stop every few leads and wipe the tool off...  I'd rather them drop on
the table below the cutter (I use cutters with cut-lead retention so
they stick in the tool until the cutting pressure is released instead of
flying across the room upon cutting).

-forrest

2008\04\03@052616 by Jake Anderson

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Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>  > (ever tried to trim leads with
>  
>> a magnetized set of cutters?) or just plain useless (magnetized tweezers
>> used to place parts anyone?).
>>    
>
> I have one cutter that somehow became magnetised - and I love it! No
> more wire ends on the floor to hurt my bare feet!
>
> But I can't help you with demagnetizing.
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>
> -- -------------------------------------------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu
>  
What wire are you cutting? I was under the impression that copper wasn't
ferromagnetic IE a magnet doesn't exert a force on it (neglecting
electrical effects)

2008\04\03@053551 by Richard Seriani, Sr.

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Forrest Christian" <spam_OUTforrestcTakeThisOuTspamimach.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <.....piclistKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:56 AM
Subject: [EE] Tool Demagetizer


{Quote hidden}

Possibly one of the links available here may help:

http://www.thomasnet.com/products/demagnetizers-22000608-1.html

Good luck,
Richard


2008\04\03@054438 by Carl Denk

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I have a passive (non-powered) permanent magnet type demagnetizer  that
has a rectangular hole for magnetizing, and a "D"  shaped hole for
demagnetizing . It works well with screwdriver blades, and the hole is
large enough for thin pliers or side cutters, but haven't had the
oportunity to try those. The link below is for a similar, mine doesn't
have the steps on the hole:

www.magnetsource.com/Consumer%20Pages/Mag_Demag.html
Jake Anderson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\04\03@055826 by Jinx

face picon face
> What wire are you cutting? I was under the impression that copper
> wasn't ferromagnetic

Copper isn't, but many component leadouts are nickel-plated and
a few have steel wire under that

2008\04\03@060014 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> What wire are you cutting? I was under the impression that copper wasn't
> ferromagnetic IE a magnet doesn't exert a force on it (neglecting
> electrical effects)

wires of TH components

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2008\04\03@064706 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>3) Finally, are there any kits/plans available to build your own ...
>or does someone have one they built which works?  And perhaps related -
>let's assume I build one, does anyone have an idea of the inductance
>and/or DC resistance I would need to not pop the breaker and/or cause
>glowing wire?   Let's assume US 120V 60Hz.

My father made his own. He had a transformer (had about 1 sq inch core cross
section IIRC) from which he removed all the E & I cores so it was an open
winding, then connected it to a model toy power transformer that had an AC
output of around 16V. Worked very well, move magnetised tool into centre of
winding with power on coil, and withdraw slowly, taking about 5 seconds to
move it a couple of feet from the coil, and then turn power off.

2008\04\03@075125 by Jake Anderson

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Jinx wrote:
>> What wire are you cutting? I was under the impression that copper
>> wasn't ferromagnetic
>>    
>
> Copper isn't, but many component leadouts are nickel-plated and
> a few have steel wire under that
>
>  
ahh got ya, forgot about that lol.

2008\04\03@084933 by Apptech

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>>> What wire are you cutting? I was under the impression
>>> that copper
>>> wasn't ferromagnetic

>> Copper isn't, but many component leadouts are
>> nickel-plated and
>> a few have steel wire under that

> ahh got ya, forgot about that lol.

Most small leaded components can be picked up with a magnet.
It's never obvious what isn't going to be. AFAIR diodes like
1N400x and 1N581x are less likely than most to be
'magnetic'.


       Russell


2008\04\03@085017 by Mike Hord

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>  3) Finally, are there any kits/plans available to build your own ...  or
>  does someone have one they built which works?  And perhaps related -
>  let's assume I build one, does anyone have an idea of the inductance
>  and/or DC resistance I would need to not pop the breaker and/or cause
>  glowing wire?   Let's assume US 120V 60Hz.

Just a thought and I've never tried it, but what about heating the tool, or
impact?

I know that sufficient heating, or a good stiff blow (say a 10 foot fall to a
concrete floor) can ruin a perfectly good permanent magnet.  Could the
same thing apply here?

I seem to recall the junior high science demonstration involving an iron
magnet placed on a stove burner or similar.  Not glowing hot, but pretty
darn warm.

Mike H.

2008\04\03@091349 by John Gardner

picon face
IIRC the "Curie Point" of a material  is the temp at which ferromagnetic
properties go away...

Jack

On 4/3/08, Mike Hord <mike.hordspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\04\03@094002 by Spehro Pefhany

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Quoting Jake Anderson <.....jakeKILLspamspam.....vapourforge.com>:

> Jinx wrote:
>>> What wire are you cutting? I was under the impression that copper
>>> wasn't ferromagnetic
>>>
>>
>> Copper isn't, but many component leadouts are nickel-plated and
>> a few have steel wire under that
>>
>>
> ahh got ya, forgot about that lol.
>
> --

I saw a home-made one wot consisted of the stator of a dismantled
1/4HP(?) motor in series with a fairly hefty (maybe 500-750W) strip
heater. Seemed to work okay, and could be build for almost nothing
with scrap parts. A few 100W incandescent light bulbs in parallel
would work in place of the heater (this is not a good place to
substitute CF bulbs). ;-)

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
EraseMEs...spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTinterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

2008\04\03@095642 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>IIRC the "Curie Point" of a material  is the temp at which ferromagnetic
>properties go away...

But the magnetism comes back when the temperature drops below the Curie
point. A number of soldering irons control their tip temperature this way.

2008\04\03@103157 by Funny NYPD

picon face
that's a very smart analog close-loop temperature control.
Do you happen to know which company make these tools?

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Alan B. Pearce <A.B.Pearcespamspam_OUTrl.ac.uk>
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <@spam@piclistKILLspamspammit.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2008 9:55:33 AM
Subject: Re: [EE] Tool Demagetizer

>IIRC the "Curie Point" of a material  is the temp at which ferromagnetic
>properties go away...

But the magnetism comes back when the temperature drops below the Curie
point. A number of soldering irons control their tip temperature this way.

2008\04\03@104018 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Funny NYPD <KILLspamfunnynypdKILLspamspamyahoo.com> wrote:
> that's a very smart analog close-loop temperature control.
>  Do you happen to know which company make these tools?

It's quite brilliant. Weller's WTCPT line does this.

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
-Douglas Adams

2008\04\03@104359 by David VanHorn

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On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Funny NYPD <RemoveMEfunnynypdTakeThisOuTspamyahoo.com> wrote:
> that's a very smart analog close-loop temperature control.
> Do you happen to know which company make these tools?

Weller and others.

I use a Metcal, which pumps RF energy to the handpiece, and when the
tip comes up to temperature, it stops absorbing RF.
More of a linear mechanism.  I can work on SMD devices, and shield
cans with the same tip.

2008\04\03@105452 by Apptech

face
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> On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Funny NYPD
> <spamBeGonefunnynypdspamBeGonespamyahoo.com> wrote:
>> that's a very smart analog close-loop temperature
>> control.
>>  Do you happen to know which company make these tools?

> It's quite brilliant. Weller's WTCPT line does this.

Weller is part of  "Cooper Group".


       Russell

2008\04\03@110411 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>that's a very smart analog close-loop temperature control.
>Do you happen to know which company make these tools?

Weller have done it for more years than I care to remember (like about 40
that I know of). The number stamped on the back of the tip is the tip
control temp in 100 deg F. The normal tip to use is a 7, giving 700F, which
is the nominal soldering temp.

2008\04\03@110829 by Apptech

face
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> Just a thought and I've never tried it, but what about
> heating the tool, or
> impact?

Heating is very liable to affect metal "temper".
Non magnetised non-cutters may result.

Repeated percussion below damage range should work BUT
the various electromagnetic methods that have been mentioned
should be fine.
Generate a strongish AC field, present the tool to it and
then move it slowly away. The field needs to be strong
enough to adequately overcome the coercivity (natural
cussedness, magnetic stay-puttedness) of the material and
will vary with tool material. Soft irons are easily changed.
Some stainless steels and similar may be 'rather difficult'
but these are also less liable to have been magnetised
initially.

An opened transformer core fed from a low voltage
transformer should be adequate for most objects. Variac on
primary of driving transformer is useful. No variac ? -
light bulbs in series with secondary and opened core will
do. Experiment to ghet desired brightness as an indication
of current flow.  Very dark bulb is much lower R than when
even moderately orange so a degree of variable current
limiting is provided. R on = Vrated^2/Watts_rated. Cold R is
10+ times lower.

If you have a variac you can keep the tool still and wind
down the voltage.

TVs and monitors have a degaussing feature built in. May not
have enough 'grunt' but the thump you get when some monitors
debauss suggests some serious amp turns. AFAIK many of these
use only a PTC and a coil and mains so mayhaps gutting out
this part from a dead monitor may suffice. The degauss coil
could be wound into a smaller coil of coils to get more amp
turns. YMMV.Dont try this at home. All care and no
responsibility. Do not spindle fold punch mutilate staple or
bend. You have the right to remain si ... .




       Russell

2008\04\03@112620 by John Gardner

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Live & learn - That's pretty neat.

Jack

On 4/3/08, David VanHorn <TakeThisOuTmicrobrixEraseMEspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Funny NYPD <RemoveMEfunnynypdspamTakeThisOuTyahoo.com> wrote:
> > that's a very smart analog close-loop temperature control.
> > Do you happen to know which company make these tools?
>
> Weller and others.
>
> I use a Metcal, which pumps RF energy to the handpiece, and when the
> tip comes up to temperature, it stops absorbing RF.
> More of a linear mechanism.  I can work on SMD devices, and shield
> cans with the same tip.
> -

2008\04\03@114834 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 00:56:06 -0600, "Forrest Christian"
<forrestcEraseMEspam.....imach.com> said:

> 3) Finally, are there any kits/plans available to build your own ...  or
> does someone have one they built which works?  And perhaps related -
> let's assume I build one, does anyone have an idea of the inductance
> and/or DC resistance I would need to not pop the breaker and/or cause
> glowing wire?   Let's assume US 120V 60Hz.

Get an old shaded pole motor and pull the moving parts off, it will work
fine.

Those are the types of motors used in bathroom exhaust fans.

The trick is to stroke the tool on the demagnetizer, and the final pull
off needs to be smooth.

Re-reading that last sentence makes me think I might have a future
writing porn :)

Cheerful regards,

Bob

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class

2008\04\03@123634 by Dwayne Reid

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A magnetic tape bulk eraser works very well for this.  These can be
had for not much money these days - most broadcasters are dumping
anything to do with magnetic tape.  eBay is a good place to look, as
are any local radio and TV broadcast facilities.  FWIW - the local
broadcast engineers are great people to get to know.

I have at least 2 units - one from Nortronics and another from
Hammond.  The Hammond table-top units (foot-switch controlled) are
just fabulous - that's what we used to use when erasing carts prior
to recording new material onto them.

Proper technique is really important: turn the demanetiser on, bring
the tool close in and touching, then slowly start moving the tool in
a circular motion.  Slowly make the circles wider as you are moving
the tool further away from the demagnetiser.  You can turn the
demagnetiser off when the tool is about a full arms-length away from
it.  Total demagnetising time takes 10 - 15 seconds if you do it properly.

dwayne

At 12:56 AM 4/3/2008, Forrest Christian wrote:

>2) How about some of the commerical "active" demagetizers.  Seems like
>there are a few that are around $100 or so, but I don't want to buy 2-3
>to find one which works.


--
Dwayne Reid   <EraseMEdwaynerspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2008\04\03@154329 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
Quoting Apptech <RemoveMEapptechEraseMEspamEraseMEparadise.net.nz>:

>>>> What wire are you cutting? I was under the impression
>>>> that copper
>>>> wasn't ferromagnetic
>
>>> Copper isn't, but many component leadouts are
>>> nickel-plated and
>>> a few have steel wire under that
>
>> ahh got ya, forgot about that lol.
>
> Most small leaded components can be picked up with a magnet.
> It's never obvious what isn't going to be. AFAIR diodes like
> 1N400x and 1N581x are less likely than most to be
> 'magnetic'.
>
>         Russell

I'd expect power components such as rectifiers to be more likely to
have copper than steel leads since the thermal conductivity of
Cu is so much higher than that of steel (almost an order of magnitude).

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
RemoveMEs...spam_OUTspamKILLspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

2008\04\03@155329 by Don Lewis

picon face

Get an old fashioned transformer based soldering gun.  Bend the wire
tip into a loop.  Stick the tool in the loop, turn on the gun, while keeping
the tool centered in the loop slowly withdraw it at least 12" before turning
off the gun.  Done.

The soldering tip/loop is the 1 or 2 turn secondary of a transformer.  The very
heavy current in the loop creates a strong alternating magnetic field.

Genuine Weller at big box store for $27:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=97541-000000273-8200PK

Cheap import for $10:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4328

Don









2008\04\03@175115 by Jinx

face picon face
> The trick is to stroke the tool on the demagnetizer, and the final
> pull off needs to be smooth

That's how I used to demagnetise my reel-to-reel heads. You'd
keep the coil energised and pull away slowly to a couple of feet

> Re-reading that last sentence makes me think I might have a
> future writing porn :)

I got a flyer from RS this morning advertising "Half-Price Strippers !!"

Yowza !!!

Imagine my disappointment to find it was just a fire-sale clearance
of lap dancers and quasi-working girls. Think I'd rather lease ......

2008\04\03@192001 by Dan Smith

face picon face
On 03/04/2008, Jinx <RemoveMEjoecolquittTakeThisOuTspamspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
> I got a flyer from RS this morning advertising "Half-Price Strippers !!"
>
>  Yowza !!!
>
>  Imagine my disappointment to find it was just a fire-sale clearance
>  of lap dancers and quasi-working girls. Think I'd rather lease ......

Well, as Matt said in the logic analyser thread, "buy the very best
you can afford
right now that meets all your current needs" :-)

Dan

2008\04\03@213041 by Brooke Clarke

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Hi Forrest:

I have some info on a commercial AC powered unit at:
http://www.prc68.com/I/Sensors.shtml#Demag

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.prc68.com/P/Prod.html  Products I make and sell
http://www.prc68.com/Alpha.shtml  All my web pages listed based on html name
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.precisionclock.com
http://www.prc68.com/I/WebCam2.shtml 24/7 Sky-Weather-Astronomy Web Cam

2008\04\04@013624 by Forrest Christian

flavicon
face
Now that's an elegant solution...  I've got a couple of those floating
around which I can use...

-forrest

Don Lewis wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\04\04@031524 by Apptech

face
flavicon
face
> Get an old fashioned transformer based soldering gun.
> Bend the wire
> tip into a loop.  Stick the tool in the loop, turn on the
> gun, while keeping
> the tool centered in the loop slowly withdraw it at least
> 12" before turning
> off the gun.  Done.
>
> The soldering tip/loop is the 1 or 2 turn secondary of a
> transformer.  The very
> heavy current in the loop creates a strong alternating
> magnetic field.

A "poker work" transformer might do equally well. These a
transformer used to heat a resistive element to create
charred "etching" on wood etc for decorative purposes.

There are or were some 'quick heat' soldering irons that
use(d) a very low resistance element and no temperature
control - you 'blip' the switch (sometimes a ring on the
barrel) for as long as experience tells you is needed and
then solder using the tip's thermal mass. Worked remarkably
well for heavy jobs that could stand not having temperature
control. You knew that you had overdone it when the tip
distorted under overheating and fell out.
I suspect that their transformers would also be up to this
task. The brand name Scope is suggested by my hindbrain.


       Russell




2008\04\04@043357 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I got a flyer from RS this morning advertising "Half-Price Strippers !!"
>
>Yowza !!!
>
>Imagine my disappointment to find it was just a fire-sale clearance
>of lap dancers and quasi-working girls. Think I'd rather lease ......

You been wandering along K-Road again Jinx .... claiming to go to that Dick
Smith store along there ???

2008\04\04@044330 by Jinx
face picon face
> Well, as Matt said in the logic analyser thread, "buy the very best
> you can afford right now that meets all your current needs" :-)

;->>

2008\04\04@045625 by Jinx

face picon face
> You been wandering along K-Road again Jinx .... claiming to go to
> that Dick Smith store along there ???

Haha, Trannie HQ

Oh yeah, right. Dick Smith. What are you like eh ?

Yesterday I was pricing USB external drives. I rang DSE in New
Lynn as they'd had HDD specials recently

"I'm afraid we've got only two in stock, both WD 320GB"

"OK, how much ?"

"Well, they aren't for sale"

"Oh"

"One is a shelf model, and it's got bits missing. The other one
is a customer return. And it's got bits missing"

"You know, I spoke to your manager once about taking stuff
back that was incomplete. Like the pile of cheap VCRs and
DVDs with no remotes or power cords. Looks like you're
stuck with a couple of hard drives too now"

"Yeah, guess so. Oh well"

"OK, thanks anyway, bye"

And I went to see my little Chinese man who beat DSE by
a mile anyway

2008\04\04@054549 by Apptech

face
flavicon
face
> >I got a flyer from RS this morning advertising
> >"Half-Price Strippers !!"

>>Yowza !!!

>>Imagine my disappointment to find it was just a fire-sale
>>clearance
>>of lap dancers and quasi-working girls. Think I'd rather
>>lease ......

> You been wandering along K-Road again Jinx .... claiming
> to go to that Dick
> Smith store along there ???

Each area has it's specialists and the streets of K Road are
no exception.
In the last phase of my corporate incarnation, now almost
only a dim memory ago, I used to work in a large building
adjacent to the above mentioned and inferred places. I would
often leave late at night and drive through the streets
behind Dick Smiths' as a short cut to the motorway. Quite an
education. At second glance it was evident enough that a
majority of the people standing under the street lights on
the corners were not quite what one may have expected at
first glance. One could make an educated guess re the
minority. Probably not quite what the writer of the above
passage was thinking of when he wrote it.



       Russell


2008\04\04@091132 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> You been wandering along K-Road again Jinx .... claiming
>> to go to that Dick
>> Smith store along there ???
>
>Each area has it's specialists and the streets of K Road are
>no exception.
>In the last phase of my corporate incarnation, now almost
>only a dim memory ago, I used to work in a large building
>adjacent to the above mentioned and inferred places. I would
>often leave late at night and drive through the streets
>behind Dick Smiths' as a short cut to the motorway. Quite an
>education. At second glance it was evident enough that a
>majority of the people standing under the street lights on
>the corners were not quite what one may have expected at
>first glance. One could make an educated guess re the
>minority. Probably not quite what the writer of the above
>passage was thinking of when he wrote it.

You seemed to have followed my tracks ... when on night time callout I
sometimes went that exact same track if I had to go to the office first (in
upper Queen St) to pick up some spares or equipment. Sometimes at the
intersection behind DSE one could almost have the car mobbed by girls.

The other trick was to have dinner in the revolving restaurant on the top of
the Telecom building, you could see the girls setting themselves out on the
street corners as the evening went on.

If anyone has the book on K-Road (cannot remember its title at the present)
that was written by a rubbish man that did the bin clearing in that area,
there is a photo of my company car in front of the building that had an
enormous (for the size of the building) sign of a naked lady. I had parked
there to go to the bank about 3 doors down, at lunch time - yeah, that is my
story, and I'm sticking to it ... ;)

2008\04\05@181716 by Debbie

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--- Jinx <EraseMEjoecolquittspamspamspamBeGoneclear.net.nz> wrote:

> > Well, as Matt said in the logic analyser thread, "buy the very best
> > you can afford right now that meets all your current needs" :-)

Hah, well I just use a stator out of a busted old AC electric drill, with the
rotor removed, obviously.  Dip the tool - screwdriver, tweezers or whatever -
into the empty stator cavity with the power turned on and voila, demagnetised.
Best I can afford right now. :|
Debbie


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