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'[EE] Swtich-on-a-chip'
2009\05\04@233439 by solarwind

picon face
Hey all. I decided try both CAN (with a ring/daisy chain topology) and
ethernet (star/switch topology) since this is only a hobby project.
Ethernet should be convenient because it can interface to a computer
easily.

Since this is an embedded project, I don't want to tape a bulky $10
switch onto it. I want to make my own switch. Can anymore recommend a
switch-on-chip that's preferably easy to use?

-- [ solarwind ] -- http://solar-blogg.blogspot.com/

2009\05\05@012421 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:34 AM, solarwind <spam_OUTx.solarwind.xTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all. I decided try both CAN (with a ring/daisy chain topology) and
> ethernet (star/switch topology) since this is only a hobby project.
> Ethernet should be convenient because it can interface to a computer
> easily.

It is okay to have a short tap off the CAN trunk line. And you only
need to terminate both ends of the CAN trunk line. As this is a hobby
project, it should be okay even if the tap is a bit longer than normal.

> Since this is an embedded project, I don't want to tape a bulky $10
> switch onto it. I want to make my own switch. Can anymore recommend a
> switch-on-chip that's preferably easy to use?

I myself am not an expert in CAN and Ethernet and I assume you will have a
steep learning curve toward CAN and Ethernet based on my own on-going
learning process (digesting more than 2000 pages of CIP specifications since
last Fall). So I think it is better to do things step by step and concentrate on
the core stuff you want to achieve. I will consider making a US$10 switch
not the core of the things you want to achieve. As far as I know, all of the
commercial off the shelf Ethernet switches use big Ethernet switch ASICs
which are not so friendly to hobbyists.

Instead if I were you, I will do the following for the CAN side.
1) Get some samples of temperature sensors and CAN PICs.
2) Project 1:CAN PIC to talk to the temperature sensor.
You may want to have RS232 as well to interface to the PC.
3) Project 2: Make two CAN nodes and let them talk to
each other. You should know that you need two CAN nodes
to test CAN bus.
4) Project 3: Extend the CAN bus to more nodes. You may
encounter problems like Bus Off or similar when doing this.

After that, make final PCBs and make a nice casing or things like that
to have a nice package. Then document it in your blog.

Similar for the Ethernet side. You can always use the big
switch first. And if you really want to make your own
switch, do it later.

How do you like the plan?
--
Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com

2009\05\05@012732 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
solarwind wrote:
> Hey all. I decided try both CAN (with a ring/daisy chain topology) and
> ethernet (star/switch topology) since this is only a hobby project.
> Ethernet should be convenient because it can interface to a computer
> easily.
>
> Since this is an embedded project, I don't want to tape a bulky $10
> switch onto it. I want to make my own switch. Can anymore recommend a
> switch-on-chip that's preferably easy to use?

SW, it sounds like your trying to do too much at the same time. Get your
project working with a bulky switch and some duct tape, then decide whether
you want to build one from scratch.

Vitaliy


2009\05\05@014117 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 1:24 AM, Xiaofan Chen <.....xiaofancKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is okay to have a short tap off the CAN trunk line. And you only
> need to terminate both ends of the CAN trunk line. As this is a hobby
> project, it should be okay even if the tap is a bit longer than normal.

How about daisy chain? I really hate the trunk/branch type thing.

> Instead if I were you, I will do the following for the CAN side.
> 1) Get some samples of temperature sensors and CAN PICs.

Already done.

> 2) Project 1:CAN PIC to talk to the temperature sensor.
> You may want to have RS232 as well to interface to the PC.

Done and done.

> 3) Project 2: Make two CAN nodes and let them talk to
> each other. You should know that you need two CAN nodes
> to test CAN bus.

Waiting for my maxim CAN transceivers to arrive.

> 4) Project 3: Extend the CAN bus to more nodes. You may
> encounter problems like Bus Off or similar when doing this.
>
> After that, make final PCBs and make a nice casing or things like that
> to have a nice package. Then document it in your blog.

KK!

2009\05\05@014311 by solarwind

picon face
I already ordered samples of these:
www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/4531

2009\05\05@015754 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
solarwind wrote:
> Hey all. I decided try both CAN (with a ring/daisy chain topology) and
> ethernet (star/switch topology) since this is only a hobby project.
> Ethernet should be convenient because it can interface to a computer
> easily.
>
> Since this is an embedded project, I don't want to tape a bulky $10
> switch onto it. I want to make my own switch. Can anymore recommend a
> switch-on-chip that's preferably easy to use?

I need a quick heads-up on the wiring end of things. Do you have 4 wires
at your disposal to do ethernet?

3 wires for solid RS-485?

Cheerful regards,

Bob

2009\05\05@020654 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 1:57 AM, Bob Blick <bobblickspamKILLspamftml.net> wrote:
> I need a quick heads-up on the wiring end of things. Do you have 4 wires
> at your disposal to do ethernet?
>
> 3 wires for solid RS-485?

I have CAT5 and CAT3 cables.

2009\05\05@084551 by olin piclist

face picon face
solarwind wrote:
> Since this is an embedded project, I don't want to tape a bulky $10
> switch onto it. I want to make my own switch. Can anymore recommend a
> switch-on-chip that's preferably easy to use?

I would get it all working first with the $10 switch.  Then if you still
feel like it you can make your own switch.  It's really a separate project.
If you keep dreaming up things to make the whole project harder you'll never
get there.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\05\05@085308 by olin piclist

face picon face
solarwind wrote:
>> It is okay to have a short tap off the CAN trunk line. And you only
>> need to terminate both ends of the CAN trunk line. As this is a hobby
>> project, it should be okay even if the tap is a bit longer than
>> normal.
>
> How about daisy chain?

That's exactly what you want for CAN.  If you think about it though, every
node will have some tap from the bus going to its tranceiver.  It may only
be 1/2 traces on the PC board, but it will be there.  You can have this tap
usually a meter or two without problems, as long as both ends of the CAN bus
are terminated correctly.

The easiest way to do daisy chain is to have two CAN connectors on every
board.  They are physically close, tied together, and tied to the CAN
transceiver on that board.  The boards on each end of the bus have
terminators plugged into their otherwise unused connectors.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\05\05@104956 by Herbert Graf

picon face
On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 23:34 -0400, solarwind wrote:
> Hey all. I decided try both CAN (with a ring/daisy chain topology) and
> ethernet (star/switch topology) since this is only a hobby project.
> Ethernet should be convenient because it can interface to a computer
> easily.
>
> Since this is an embedded project, I don't want to tape a bulky $10
> switch onto it. I want to make my own switch. Can anymore recommend a
> switch-on-chip that's preferably easy to use?

How's your SMT skills? Pretty much any switch IC is going to be TQFP,
most these days are BGA. Just buy the $10 switch and remove the case.

2009\05\05@124255 by Alex Harford

face picon face
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:34 PM, solarwind <.....x.solarwind.xKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Since this is an embedded project, I don't want to tape a bulky $10
> switch onto it. I want to make my own switch. Can anymore recommend a
> switch-on-chip that's preferably easy to use?

I like the KS899x series.  SPI interface, and has some nice vlan
features.  There are some example drivers for it in OpenWRT.
https://dev.openwrt.org/browser/trunk/package/spi-ks8995/src/spi_ks8995.c

You can do some nice things with it, like echo all traffic on one port
to another sniffer port, etc.

As a hobbyist though, you'll have a tough time soldering it.

2009\05\05@124305 by Alex Harford

face picon face
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:34 PM, solarwind <EraseMEx.solarwind.xspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
>
> Since this is an embedded project, I don't want to tape a bulky $10
> switch onto it. I want to make my own switch. Can anymore recommend a
> switch-on-chip that's preferably easy to use?

I like the KS899x series.  SPI interface, and has some nice vlan
features.  There are some example drivers for it in OpenWRT.
https://dev.openwrt.org/browser/trunk/package/spi-ks8995/src/spi_ks8995.c

You can do some nice things with it, like echo all traffic on one port
to another sniffer port, etc.

As a hobbyist though, you'll have a tough time soldering it.

2009\05\05@160829 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Herbert Graf <hkgrafspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
> How's your SMT skills? Pretty much any switch IC is going to be TQFP,
> most these days are BGA. Just buy the $10 switch and remove the case.

TQFP is easy. I can now solder pretty much any surface mount chip with
exposed pins. I love the 0.4 mm TQFP like the PIC32s. Lots of flux and
a $10 radio shack iron will do it nicely.

2009\05\06@070239 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I like the KS899x series.

Those look like nice chips. Including the series with the internal ARM CPU,
with supplied Linux.

Bit of a pain downloading, until one works out how to 'Login' once, and
thereafter substitute the family in the URL.

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