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'[EE] Sources for Veroboard in North America?'
2008\12\28@210338 by Paul Anderson

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Can anyone recommend good places to order Veroboard in North America?
Preferably mail order, with an online shopping cart.  Thanks for any
advice you can provide.

--
Paul Anderson
VE3HOP
spam_OUTwackyvorlonTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com
http://www.oldschoolhacker.com
QRP ARCI #13228, GQRP #12447

2008\12\28@223133 by Joseph Bento

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On Dec 28, 2008, at 7:03 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:

> Can anyone recommend good places to order Veroboard in North America?
> Preferably mail order, with an online shopping cart.  Thanks for any
> advice you can provide.


I've never been able to find it - or at least find it at reasonable  
prices.  I always order from a UK merchant such as Farnell or Rapid  
Online, or often from a UK ebay seller.  Here's an ebay link from a UK  
seller I've bought Veroboard from previously:

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-x-Copper-Stripboard-65-x-94mm-Veroboard-Style-2-75_W0QQitemZ310111811275QQihZ021QQcategoryZ4663QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

His shipping rates to the United States are reasonable.

Mouser and Digikey do have a Vectorboard stripboard product, but I  
find it prohibitively expensive for the small size of the board.

Joe

2008\12\28@235013 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On Dec 28, 2008, at 7:31 PM, Joseph Bento wrote:

> Mouser and Digikey do have a Vectorboard stripboard product, but I
> find it prohibitively expensive for the small size of the board.

Yeah, for some reason "stripboard" is really expensive in the US.
Futurlec has a couple reasonably priced versions:
   http://www.futurlec.com/ProtoBoards.shtml
(they're NOT north american, and they have a reputation of being
somewhat slow on delivery, but I find them a useful vendor...)

BillW

2008\12\29@005113 by Joseph Bento

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On Dec 28, 2008, at 9:48 PM, William Chops Westfield wrote:

>
> On Dec 28, 2008, at 7:31 PM, Joseph Bento wrote:
>
>> Mouser and Digikey do have a Vectorboard stripboard product, but I
>> find it prohibitively expensive for the small size of the board.
>
> Yeah, for some reason "stripboard" is really expensive in the US.
> Futurlec has a couple reasonably priced versions:
>    http://www.futurlec.com/ProtoBoards.shtml
> (they're NOT north american, and they have a reputation of being
> somewhat slow on delivery, but I find them a useful vendor...)

Their price on the 110x94mm board is really good!  I just don't  
understand why we can't buy a board like the 119x455mm like Rapid  
sells here in the States.

I mentioned Rapid as a source, and they've changed!  Nothing wrong  
with their prices for the board, but they no longer have standard air  
mail as a shipping option!  They want to ship via some courier service  
to the USA for a fee on the order of £60 - that's about $120 folks!  
Far too much for a stripboard order.

Interestingly, Newark, part of the Farnell UK group, does have  
Veroboard (brand) listed, but the price is a shocker!  See:

http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=95M0365&CMP=AFC-TL10000001

And the order is shipped from the UK as it is, making it a $20  
shipping fee!

Admittedly, it is a good-sized board at 100x500mm, but still pricy!

Joe

2008\12\29@030226 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On Dec 28, 2008, at 9:50 PM, Joseph Bento wrote:
>
> Interestingly, Newark, part of the Farnell UK group, does have
> Veroboard (brand) listed, but the price is a shocker!

Well, veroboard probably runs them as a product, so a piece of  
stripboard of a given size doesn't cost any less than any other PCB of  
similar size.  I suspect that futurlec uses such boards as "filler" in  
the PCB fabrication business...

BillW

2008\12\29@035643 by Richard Seriani, Sr.

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Anderson" <.....wackyvorlonKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistspamKILLspammit.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 9:03 PM
Subject: [EE] Sources for Veroboard in North America?


> Can anyone recommend good places to order Veroboard in North America?
> Preferably mail order, with an online shopping cart.  Thanks for any
> advice you can provide.
>
> --
> Paul Anderson
> VE3HOP

If any help, Electronix Express has what looks to be stripboard; 9.9" x 3.9"
for $2.50

http://www.elexp.com/pro_pb16.htm

Richard


2008\12\29@092734 by Joe Bento

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Richard Seriani, Sr. wrote:
>
> If any help, Electronix Express has what looks to be stripboard; 9.9" x 3.9"
> for $2.50
>
> http://www.elexp.com/pro_pb16.htm
>
>  
That is by far the best deal I've seen yet.  I placed an order just a
few minutes ago.

Since I still have some board purchased from the UK, I'll report on the
quality of the Electronix Express boards when I receive them.

I have ordered from Electronix Express in the past, but it's probably
been years.  It is worth noting that they have a $20 minimum order.

Joe



2008\12\29@103349 by Alan B. Pearce

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>> Can anyone recommend good places to order Veroboard in North
>> America? Preferably mail order, with an online shopping cart.
>> Thanks for any advice you can provide.
>
>I've never been able to find it - or at least find it at
>reasonable prices.
...
>Mouser and Digikey do have a Vectorboard stripboard product, but
>I find it prohibitively expensive for the small size of the board.

Veroboard is always very expensive for what you get - largely because of the
number of holes in it. Hole drilling is an expensive production operation.

2008\12\29@110423 by Joe Bento

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Alan B. Pearce wrote:
> Veroboard is always very expensive for what you get - largely because of the
> number of holes in it. Hole drilling is an expensive production operation.
>
>  

I don't think drilling is entirely the issue.  Perfboard, or perfboard
with copper donuts (as sold by Radio Shack) is very INEXPENSIVE.  
Veroboard (tradename) or stripboard (common name) has NEVER been common
in the USA.  It has only been since I've made some good friends online
from Europe that I've been introduced to this fabulous product.  
Subscribing to European electronic hobby magazines has increased my
desire to find an inexpensive source.  Honestly, as wonderful as
stripboard is to work with, it baffles me that nearly the rest of the
world outside of North America uses this stuff and hobbyists here are
nearly clueless of its existence.

Joe

2008\12\29@111010 by jim

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All,

FYI,  most of the veroboard and veroboard type products I've seen aren't
drilled at all.
They are punched.  You can tell by the look of the holes.  And I've seen it
being punched
at the fabricator.  So the drilling cost is virtually zero.

Jim



{Original Message removed}

2008\12\29@112849 by Carl Denk

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Although drilling individual holes, usually as a gang setup, but due to
spacing, probably needs a transfer table to increment for the holes
between the minimum gang hole spacing, or a NC to drill individual holes
(or gangs) is much more time consuming, and the initial cost of the
equipment and maintenance including drill bits is not inexpensive. The
gang punching of all holes at once does have an equipment and tooling
cost including replacement punches and die plates which I wouldn't call
near zero either. I wouldn't want to guess which is least expensive,
might be dependent on equipment available from other jobs. :)


>   So the drilling cost is virtually zero.

2008\12\29@114143 by Dwayne Reid

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Many thanks for the link to Electronix Express.

We use a LOT of Veroboard (stripboard) and, not only is each new
order always more expensive than the last batch, but its also
becoming increasingly harder to find.

Veroboard is great stuff for quick prototypes and for one-off special
projects.  It takes new engineers a while to get the "knack" of doing
good layouts but its valuable experience.

dwayne


At 01:56 AM 12/29/2008, Richard Seriani, Sr. wrote:

>If any help, Electronix Express has what looks to be stripboard; 9.9" x 3.9"
>for $2.50
>
>http://www.elexp.com/pro_pb16.htm
>
>Richard


--
Dwayne Reid   <.....dwaynerKILLspamspam.....planet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2008\12\29@114703 by jim

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Mind you, I said "drilling cost".  Not "punching cost".

Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Denk" <EraseMEcdenkspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTalltel.net>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistspamspam_OUTmit.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [EE] Sources for Veroboard in North America?


{Quote hidden}

> --

2008\12\29@132204 by Sean Breheny

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Has anyone tried:

www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/455/Perf-Boards/1.html
http://www.mpja.com/products.asp?dept=284

Sean



On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Joe Bento <@spam@josephKILLspamspamkirtland.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\12\29@154214 by Dwayne Reid

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At 09:03 AM 12/29/2008, Joe Bento wrote:

>Honestly, as wonderful as
>stripboard is to work with, it baffles me that nearly the rest of the
>world outside of North America uses this stuff and hobbyists here are
>nearly clueless of its existence.

I've been using the stuff since the mid '70's - the largest
electronics store here at that time stocked the "Vero" version of it
called Veroboard.

It surprises me to hear that most of North America appears not to
have heard about this stuff - its always been available to me up here
in Edmonton, AB, Canada.

I'm about to order 20 sheets of the stuff from Electronix Express.

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <KILLspamdwaynerKILLspamspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2008\12\29@161219 by solarwind

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It's true, it's really hard to find here. I went to my local
electronics store (Sayal electronics) and the closest thing they had
was called a "PC" board with the copper strips arranged in sets of
three holes separated by two vertical rows. Still very useful, but
very expensive. Also checked at various other electronics stores, they
didn't have them.

2008\12\29@181638 by Sean Breheny

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Do I understand properly what you guys are looking for? Is it not the
products shown at the links below?

On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Sean Breheny <RemoveMEshb7TakeThisOuTspamcornell.edu> wrote:
> Has anyone tried:
>
> www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/455/Perf-Boards/1.html
> http://www.mpja.com/products.asp?dept=284
>
> Sean
>
>
>

2008\12\29@182226 by Paul Anderson

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On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 11:48 PM, William Chops Westfield
<spamBeGonewestfwspamBeGonespammac.com> wrote:
>
>    http://www.futurlec.com/ProtoBoards.shtml
> (they're NOT north american, and they have a reputation of being
> somewhat slow on delivery, but I find them a useful vendor...)
>
>
Sure is hard to beat Futurlec's prices.  I've placed an order, we'll
see how it goes.  They quote $4 for standard shipping which is great.


--
Paul Anderson
VE3HOP
TakeThisOuTwackyvorlonEraseMEspamspam_OUTgmail.com
http://www.oldschoolhacker.com
QRP ARCI #13228, GQRP #12447

2008\12\29@183650 by solarwind

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On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Sean Breheny <RemoveMEshb7spamTakeThisOuTcornell.edu> wrote:
> Do I understand properly what you guys are looking for? Is it not the
> products shown at the links below?

http://www.futurlec.com/ProtoBoards.shtml

On that page, you'll see what is called a "stripboard" (aka
Veroboard). That's what we're looking for.
--
solarwind

2008\12\29@185753 by Joseph Bento

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On Dec 29, 2008, at 3:08 PM, Sean Breheny wrote:

> Do I understand properly what you guys are looking for? Is it not the
> products shown at the links below?
>

The line pattern board at Alltronics is close.  It would work, in fact  
for many applications where stripboard is desired.  However, true  
stripboard is far easier to cut to size, as it does not have a margin  
or header at the end of the board.  Also, the Alltronics board is a  
mite expensive for its size.

Joe

2008\12\29@190031 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On Dec 29, 2008, at 2:08 PM, Sean Breheny wrote:

> Do I understand properly what you guys are looking for? Is it not the
> products shown at the links below?
>>
>>
>> www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/455/Perf-Boards/1.html
>> http://www.mpja.com/products.asp?dept=284

At all, the (single) board "ECS-4" looks right.
None of the mpja boards match, as far as I can tell.

The desired pattern is strips of copper that go all the way across the  
board.  It's a subtractive process to convert this to a circuit,  
rather than the additive process you use with the "pad per hole" board  
that seem to be more popular in the US.  You can see how it is used  
(for an example) here:  http://www.winpicprog.co.uk/pic_tutorial_main_board.htm

BillW

2008\12\29@191232 by Richard Seriani, Sr.

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Breheny" <shb7EraseMEspam.....cornell.edu>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <EraseMEpiclistspammit.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [EE] Sources for Veroboard in North America?


{Quote hidden}

Sean,

The MPJA site doesn't seem to have the right style (but I could have
overlooked it).
The "line pattern" at All Electronics looks like it, but with some extras.
Big price difference from the ones at Electronix Express, but maybe better
quality? Has anyone tried the ones from All Electronics?

Richard




2008\12\29@191613 by Bob Blick

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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:59:52 -0800, "William Chops Westfield"
<RemoveMEwestfwspam_OUTspamKILLspammac.com> said:
>
> On Dec 29, 2008, at 2:08 PM, Sean Breheny wrote:
>
> > Do I understand properly what you guys are looking for? Is it not the
> > products shown at the links below?
> >>
> >>
> >> www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/455/Perf-Boards/1.html
> >> http://www.mpja.com/products.asp?dept=284
>
> At all, the (single) board "ECS-4" looks right.

I notice it says "VELLEMAN" on one end. So maybe they have it at Fry's,
they stock some Velleman kits etc.

-Bob

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different...

2008\12\29@193643 by Mike Harrison

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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:57:28 -0700, you wrote:

>
>On Dec 29, 2008, at 3:08 PM, Sean Breheny wrote:
>
>> Do I understand properly what you guys are looking for? Is it not the
>> products shown at the links below?
>>
>
>The line pattern board at Alltronics is close.  It would work, in fact  
>for many applications where stripboard is desired.  However, true  
>stripboard is far easier to cut to size, as it does not have a margin  
>or header at the end of the board.

Real Veroboard is also not fibreglass - it's SRBP ( laminated paper), which makes it easy to cut by
snapping by hand or sidecutters - with practice you can even do L-shaped cuts with nothing but
fingernails!

I never understood why so many people make protoboards with single-hole pads - much slower  to use
and a real PITA if you need to replace parts.  

Traditional veroboard is great for discrete components and low pincount DIPs, but can get tedious
for mostly IC based things, for which the boards wth power rails and 3-hole DIP strips are more
compact and quicker to use. I like the through-plated ones as you can solder wires in from the top,
and they have good mechanical strength for connectors etc., but are slightly harder to unsolder
from.

These boards are relatively expensive, but last time I ran out I found that as I use quite a lot of
these (30-40/yr), it was pretty cost effective to get some of my own design made at a Chinese PCB
supplier, and so I also added a load of SMD pads and a variety of connector footprints.
(http://www.whitewing.co.uk/protoboard.html)


2008\12\29@212113 by Sean Breheny

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Ah, I understand now. No, I have never seen that type of proto board.
I can see how it would work well for many types of circuits.

My usual protoboard favorite is the three-hole-pad type (the pattern
consists of mainly copper pads with 3 holes each).

I used to not understand the pad-per-hole type but then one of my
coworkers showed me his technique for using it. Still not my favorite
but I can see how some people get to be very efficient with it. I
think he uses small pieces of wire and bent component leads to
interconnect things. You can also nicely fit 0805 size SMT components
between pads.

Sean

On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 6:36 PM, solarwind <RemoveMEx.solarwind.xTakeThisOuTspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Sean Breheny <EraseMEshb7spamspamspamBeGonecornell.edu> wrote:
>> Do I understand properly what you guys are looking for? Is it not the
>> products shown at the links below?
>
> http://www.futurlec.com/ProtoBoards.shtml
>
> On that page, you'll see what is called a "stripboard" (aka
> Veroboard). That's what we're looking for.
> --
> solarwind
> -

2008\12\29@220352 by John Ferrell

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Futurlec has been good for me as well.

John Ferrell  W8CCW

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Edmund Burke
http://DixieNC.US


{Original Message removed}

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